Examples of Sacred Tradition

[Albion]

How would you describe what you are saying as opposed to apostolic succession?

I'm referring to the way people talk--as though the Apostles were empowered to do such and such, therefore an endless number of other people of later times are supposed to have the same authority (infallibility even!) simply because a term like Apostolic teaching or Apostolic authority is stuck on it. Apostolic Succession refers to something much more limited than that.

 

[narnia59]

I'm referring to the way people talk--as though the Apostles were empowered to do such and such, therefore an endless number of other people of later times are supposed to have the same authority (infallibility even!) simply because a term like Apostolic teaching or Apostolic authority is stuck on it. Apostolic Succession refers to something much more limited than that.

So do you agree that the apostles had been entrusted by Christ with the Gospel and given the authority to govern, discipline, teach with His authority?

 

[Albion]

So do you agree that the apostles had been entrusted by Christ with the Gospel and given the authority to govern, discipline, teach with His authority?

Of course. I thought that would be seen as "a given" by anyone who was reading my posts on this subject.

 

[narnia59]

Of course.

And what do you think happened when they died to that authority?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

<snip>.....
John doesn't direct people to test the spirits by going to Scripture; he tells them to listen to the apostolic teaching authority established by Christ. It is a theme that is repeated over and over again in Scripture -- the apostles have been given the authority by Christ to preach and teach in His name, and they alone have been entrusted with the Gospel. They become the foundation of Christ's Church, which is the "pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15) and it is the church that will be used to make known the manifold wisdom of God (Ephesians 3:10). It seems pretty straighforward to me.

Testing the Word thru the known word. Those who are His know His voice because they are familiar with His words. The authority comes with the fellowship in that recognition. Wouldn't that be more in direct line with His authority than not? It's a function of the invisible church rather than the symbolism of the outer church.

 

[Albion]

The church, having been established by that time, carried on without Apostles.

 

[narnia59]

Testing the Word thru the known word. Those who are His know His voice because they are familiar with His words. The authority comes with the fellowship in that recognition. Wouldn't that be more in direct line with His authority than not? It's a function of the invisible church rather than the symbolism of the outer church.

John's answer to that question is to listen to the apostles. It matters to me that is what he tells us to do. If you want to do something else, then that is certainly up to you.

 

[narnia59]

The church, having been established by that time, carried on without Apostles.

So Jesus just needed them to get the church to a specific point (the Bible written) and that authority is gone?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

John's answer to that question is to listen to the apostles. It matters to me that is what he tells us to do. If you want to do something else, then that is certainly up to you.

Sorry where does John say that?

 

[Albion]

The role He assigned to the Apostles ended with the passing of the Apostles, yes. There have not been 2000 years of de facto Apostles functioning just like the original Apostles.

 

[narnia59]

Sorry where does John say that?

1 John 4
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are of God, and have overcome them; for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world, therefore what they say is of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

 

[narnia59]

The role He assigned to the Apostles ended with the passing of the Apostles, yes. There have not been 2000 years of de facto Apostles functioning just like the original Apostles.

So the authority to be entrusted with the Gospel, discipline, teach, govern etc now resides where?

 

[Albion]

Anybody got an example of a doctrine authorized by Sacred Tradition that must be believed for salvation? That was the topic.

 

[W2L]

So the authority to be entrusted with the Gospel, discipline, teach, govern etc now resides where?

Scriptures have the authority. Catholicism made so many errors that they cannot be trusted with the truth.

 

[narnia59]

Scriptures have the authority. Catholicism made so many errors that they cannot be trusted with the truth.

So where in Scripture does it explain that the authority entrusted to the apostles is going to be transferred to Scripture at their death?

Interesting fact -- the Bible has more than 80 references to authority and never once does it mention a relationship between authority and Scripture.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

By what is the testing? By hearing His Word in recognition as human spirit agrees with Holy Spirit within, spiritually. Knowledge itself could never do that.

 

[W2L]

So where in Scripture does it explain that the authority entrusted to the apostles is going to be transferred to Scripture at their death?

Interesting fact -- the Bible has more than 80 references to authority and never once does it mention a relationship between authority and Scripture.

It sure isnt found in catholicism, so where else would we turn except to the words of the Lord Himself, and His apostles who wrote scripture?

 

[narnia59]

Anybody got an example of a doctrine authorized by Sacred Tradition that must be believed for salvation? That was the topic.

I answered that in post 302

 

[Albion]

So the authority to be entrusted with the Gospel, discipline, teach, govern etc now resides where?

--With the household of God, just as the verse proclaims.

The church had been established by the time of the passing of the Apostles and much of the New Testament was in use, guiding the churches.

 

[narnia59]

It sure isnt found in catholicism, so where else would we turn except to the words of the Lord Himself, and His apostles who wrote scripture?

All I am asking for is the Scriptural reference that indicates that the authority entrusted to the apostles is to be transferred to Scripture at the time of their death.