• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured EXACTLY WHY MOST CHURCHES TODAY ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD !

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by John tower, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

    +571
    United States
    Calvary Chapel
    Married
    The gift of discerning of spirits may need to come into operation.
     
  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +8,992
    Anabaptist
    What are you talking about ?
     
  3. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

    +1,326
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Married
    US-Republican
    So you think your Christ and tell us lowly peons what is wrong with us. I see, your just to here to peddle things that you think. Have you been to all the Churches in the world or just some evangelical churches? Have you ever graced the doorsteps of any Liturgical Church? What do you base your ideas on? Who made you an authority to judge Churches you know nothing about?
     
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

    +571
    United States
    Calvary Chapel
    Married
    deleted.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  5. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

    +1,326
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Good thing I am not from the Episcopalian USA church
     
  6. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

    +4,329
    Christian
    Married
    Hence “or just sit idly by...”.
     
  7. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

    +4,562
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    I wasn't giving an interpretation, I was asking a question and stating a fact.
    When you say "most churches" - most churches where, and how do you know?

    There aren't any Scriptures for the question I was asking you.
    But if you want some on not judging; Matthew 7:1-5, Romans 2:1, Romans 14:1, Romans 14:4.
    Scriptures on helping others, especially those who are weak; Luke 6:31, Romans 15:1, Romans 15:7, 1 Corinthians 13:4-7.

    My post wasn't an interpretation of anything, but a fact.
    Unless you have personal experience of the faith and worship in MOST churches, you are judging. Don't.

    You need to learn the difference between interpretation of Scripture and making a comment on what someone has written.
    As you pointed out; I gave no Scripture, therefore I couldn't have interpreted it.

    If you take notice of Scripture only, you wouldn't write on here in the first place - there is no Scripture which says that we can use computers and start blogs or websites.
     
  8. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

    +4,562
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    Have you ever asked yourself why that might be?
    Have you ever considered that when you quote Scripture and give your own interpretation, you may be wrong?

    You are not on the same level as Jesus; you're certainly not the Messiah.

    Sometimes people get thrown out of places for speaking the truth, the Christian Gospel, when those in the meetings are unbelievers and don't want to hear.
    Sometimes people get thrown out because those in the meeting follow/have the truth and it is the person who is wrong/has a private interpretation.
     
  9. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

    +2,191
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Except that you have ruled out that God will speak through the preacher.
    May I suggest you study how God has worked in revival.
     
  10. Athanasius377

    Athanasius377 Is a little right of Atilla the Hun Supporter

    834
    +944
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Um, not exactly. Νικολαΐτης are adherents of Νικόλαος (1?) This could be one of the helpers in Acts 6:5 (ESV)

    5 And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, (Νικόλαος) a proselyte of Antioch.

    The Greek etymology here is also weak. The Greek word νικάω or nikao means to conquer, overcome or prevail depending on context. It is related to the Greek word νίκη or nike meaning victory.

    The Greek word for laity is λαϊκός or laikos meaning unofficial or lay. So combining the to would be nikaolaikos? I don't think that works.

    We should probably stick to reading the text as it was written rather than looking for something that is not there. The fact is we don't know much about who the Nicolaitans were. There are however a couple of clues in the writings of the early church fathers writing in the second century AD. For example Irenaeus of Lyons writes:

    3. The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practise adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. Wherefore the Word has also spoken of them thus: “But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.”2

    Irenaeus of Lyons. (1885). Irenæus against Heresies. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, p. 352). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

    Or Hippolytus of Rome:



    CHAP. XXIV.—THE MELCHISEDECIANS; THE NICOLAITANS

    While, however, different questions have arisen among them, a certain (heretic), who himself also was styled Theodotus, and who was by trade a banker, attempted to establish (the doctrine), that a certain Melchisedec constitutes the greatest power, and that this one is greater than Christ. And they allege that Christ happens to be according to the likeness (of this Melchisedec). And they themselves, similarly with those who have been previously spoken of as adherents of Theodotus, assert that Jesus is a (mere) man, and that, in conformity with the same account (already given), Christ descended upon him.
    There are, however, among the Gnostics diversities of opinion; but we have decided that it would not be worth while to enumerate the silly doctrines of these (heretics), inasmuch as they are (too) numerous and devoid of reason, and full of blasphemy. Now, even those (of the heretics) who are of a more serious turn in regard of the Divinity, and have derived their systems of speculation from the Greeks, must stand convicted3 (of these charges). But Nicolaus has been a cause of the wide-spread combination of these wicked men. He, as one of the seven (that were chosen) for the diaconate,5 was appointed by the Apostles. (But Nicolaus) departed from correct doctrine, and was in the habit of inculcating indifferency of both life and food. And when the disciples (of Nicolaus) continued to offer insult to the Holy Spirit, John reproved them in the Apocalypse as fornicators and eaters of things offered unto idols.7



    Hippolytus of Rome. (1886). The Refutation of All Heresies. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), J. H. MacMahon (Trans.), Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Novatian, Appendix (Vol. 5, p. 115). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

    It seems Nicolaus fell into some sort of gnostic heresy and gathered followers into his error. That seems to be what the Lord is saying in Rev 2:6. I would think if the Lord wanted to rebuke those in the pulpit He would have done it in a much clearer fashion.
     
  11. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

    143
    +25
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private

    I see myself as Ephesians 2:11-12 says that I should, that being formerly before Messiah, my condition was a stranger, a alien from the covenant of Promise. no hope and lost in the world, But that in Messiah have become a Citizen of Israel. Galatians 3:29, Isaiah 41:8

    The context of Isaiah 34:8 is the condition of His Sheep (Israel) and the Shepherds that are leading them as they go into the dark and cloudy day Ezekiel 34:12, commonly referred to as the Great Tribulation and Jacob's trouble.

    The shepherds of today make their living off of His Flock - and have become the predators, not even teaching them about their True Citizenship in Messiah, as it would destroy the gentile construct that has replaced what He calls His People - They teach the dispensational lie and that keeps His sheep in the blind..

    Ezekiel 34:8

    As I live, saith Adonai YHWH, surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not My flock;

    Again, the context is the last Generation Jeremiah 50:4, In those days, and in that Time

    Jeremiah 50:6

    My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their resting place.

    1 Corinthians 9:18

    What is my reward then? that when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

    2 Peter 2:3 Many following their ways, making merchandise of His Flock, Seeing it as a way to make a living as a professional CEO, running a corporation of the State, and all the authority that their 501c3 business is given as they serve another master.

    Rather than argue what the word means, fully persuaded that the definition I presented is accurate, and every pastor that stands in the pulpit believes that it's not. (not searching, but making guesses as to what is a Nicolaitian) Because it is surely not them Acts of the Apostles 20:29 - The writers of the New Covenant were not making up new precepts, YHWH has been declaring the end from the beginning.

    Be like the Bereans, search the scriptures to find out what the Author (The Almighty) is talking about... Comparing spiritual things with spiritual. He doesn't just throw stuff out there, that there isn't somewhere a answer in His Word as to what it means. Never, Nothing is Hidden that will not be revealed, you have to search for it. Knowledge shall increase, many going to a fro in the scriptures.

    The Times of ignorance has ended: Acts of the Apostles 17:30

    1 Corinthians 11:19 How is this possible when only one man is allowed to speak, it's not.

    Factions: The Greek word is Hairesis, from which the word Heresy comes from.

    Without it, the Pastor becomes the sovereign king over His Body, not a place to be in, why Peter gave a stern warning, Let not many of you become teachers, He appoints them, If He didn't, a hundred years of seminary won't make them one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  12. Athanasius377

    Athanasius377 Is a little right of Atilla the Hun Supporter

    834
    +944
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Well, no, it's not accurate. A Nicolaitan is not a pastor. A Pastor is a pastor and a Nicolaitan is a Nicolaitan. If God the Holy Spirit meant to write Pastor He would have done so. There are plenty of verses that deal with the subject of pastors but this is not one of them.

    I have no issue with the first part of your post. Where I object is inserting a definition that simply isn't there in the text.
     
  13. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +8,992
    Anabaptist
    Why worry ?
    If a pastor happens to be a nicolaitan, then THAT nicolaitan is a pastor, right ?
     
  14. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

    143
    +25
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    No issue then that the Pastors don't teach the flock that,

    You're not a lutheran, was Luther sacrificed for you

    You're not a _________________ (insert denomination) Did the one from whom it originated, (sought after disciples for himself) Was he sacrificed for you.

    These are all human constructs, that by their traditions, nullifies the word of YAH

    Conquerer's over the laity, keeping them captive, denying them the right to know their true heritage - (when they are a counterfeit) a nicolaitan, serve other gods. Numbers 24:1-3

    Bible Study Tools commentaries:

    Nicolaitans

    The two names (Nicolaitans, Balaam) have very similar meanings in their respective languages: “Balaam is derived from two Hebrew words, בָּלַע [bālaʿ] (‘he swallows’) and עָם [ʿām] (‘people’). Interestingly, according to the derivative meanings of the names, the two groups troubling this church [Pergamos] were ‘swallowers of the people’ (i.e., the Balaamites) and ‘conquerors of the people’ (i.e., the Nicolaitans).” If the similar meaning of their names is significant and their mention in adjoining verses in the letter to Pergamos is intended to show a relationship, then it is thought that the licentious tendencies of the Nicolaitans might be understood in light of the doctrine of balaam.

    balaam swallower of the people

    nicolaitans - conqueror of the people

    In succesive verses to the called out ones in pergamos, the place of satan's seat

    balaam - nicolaitans / same thing
    Revelation 2:14-15

    12 “The value of Irenaeus’s references to the Nicolaitans is doubtful. The primary passage (adv. Haer. 1.26.3) tells us that they followed Nicolaus, one of the seven deacons of Acts Acts 6:5, but adds nothing which might not have been inferred from the Revelation. In a passing remark in 3.11.7 he treats them as the earliest representative of the error of Cerinthus and ascribes to them a Gnostic cosmology. That however might be an inference from a tradition connecting John’s opponents with the ‘gnosis falsely so called’ of 1Ti. 1Ti. 6:20, to which Irenaeus here appears to refer.”—Hemer, The Letters to the Seven Churches of Asia in Their Local Setting, s.v. “Irenaeus Questionable on Nicolaitans.”

    ~~~
    balaam's intention was to trick Israel into serving other gods, and many fell for it and died... deceiving them for money Jude 1:11 for Hire

    Are hirelings
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  15. Athanasius377

    Athanasius377 Is a little right of Atilla the Hun Supporter

    834
    +944
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Constitution
    That sounds rather pious but it irrelevant. That has nothing to do with my objection.


    Exegetical nonsense. The error here is illegitimate totality transfer. Words have specific meanings based on context and grammar. Unwarranted expansion of the semantic domain of words will lead you in to all kinds of error. You can literally prove ANYTHING using this type of erroneous exegesis.

    That was the idea. Irenaeus knows nothing of people eating pastor conquerors.
     
  16. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

    143
    +25
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Shabbat Shalom -

    From: Riding upon the high places of the earth, being fed with the heritage of Jacob. Isaiah 58:14 Ahmane

    For those with eyes to see


    לכן חכו לי נאם יהוה ליום קומי לעד כי משפטי לאסף גוים לקבצי ממלכות לשפך עליהם זעמי כל חרון אפי כי באש קנאתי תאכל כל הארץ


    Zephaniah 3:8 The Only Verse in the Hebrew Bible that has all 22 Hebrew letters and the 5 Sofits -Meaning: final or ending forms.

    The next verse: Zephaniah 3:9

    That is what is Called a HINT, Remez in Hebrew, something that is not written in the plain meaning of the text...

    Some people, no matter how many Hints they are given, the second level of interpretation is beyond them.

    When you get a few different viewpoints, One has a word about it, another, decently and in order

    That's Called the Drash

    The goal is to reach the Sod - The deeper spiritual meaning, the thing that is Hidden Proverbs 25:2

    Shabbat Shalom

    Here is another, That is lost in English

    Isaiah 9:7

    The letter Mem in the word L'Marbeh ("of the increase") is written as a final men when it should be written with a open Mem ... Because of the closed final mem, that means something is hidden by Elohim.

    Closed Mem - Hebraic thinking, The Mem represents the womb, chaotic waters

    Resh - the Head

    Bet - House

    Hey - Revealed, Behold

    Closed Mem-Resh-Bet-Hey

    From a closed womb, The Head of House is Revealed.

    Which points us back to Isaiah 7:14

    A sign within a sign
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  17. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

    143
    +25
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    • בראשית

    • B'reshyt - Bet Resh Aleph Shin Yad Taw The first Six letters that spell the first Word/Phrase in the scriptures, that is translated in English as In the beginning

    • Enlarged Bet in the Torah Scrolls_ The Pictograph (P.) is a House/Family

    • Bet-Resh The first two letters spell Bar - Son H1247 (P.) the head of man - *First

    • Bet-Resh-Aleph The first three letters spell Bara - Created H1254 (P.) Ox Strength (The 2nd Word in the Scriptures)

    • First three Letters ~ House Son Created

    • The 4th letter is a Shin, Something Sharp, to Press, and Two H8127 (P.) two teeth, the Root is H8150 c. Pierce

    • The 4th and 5th, Shin-Yad spell, Shay Gift or Present H7862 (P.) Arm

    • The 4th, 5th and 6th, Shin Yad Taw spell Shiyt Set, Appointed H7896 (P.) Cross

    • House Son created, two pierced arm(s) gift appointed cross


    • רֵאשִׁית Resh Aleph Shin Yad Taw reshyt *Beginning, Firstfruits H7225

    • When Bet prefixes a word, in, on, or by

    In beginning House Son created, two pierced arm(s) gift appointed cross.

    • אשִׁ Aleph Shin = esh Fire, burning H784

    • Aleph Taw ET ; The First and Last letters of the Hebrew Alphabet, the ending letters of each sequence.

    • יהוה ~ YHWH - Arm Behold Nail Behold


    • Bet ~ Bar ~ Son

    • Resh ~ Ruach ~ Spirit

    • Aleph ~ AB ~ Father

    Let Us make man in Our Image

    Shema Yisrael YAHUWAH Eloheinu YAHUWAH Echad


    John 1:1

    Note: Yad for Yod Taw for Tav
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  18. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

    143
    +25
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    The Untranslated את Aleph-Taw in,

    Genesis 1:1 *2
    בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ

    HaShema

    Deuteronomy 6:4
    ש מ ע ישראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד

    Deuteronomy 6:5

    ואהבת את יהוה אלהיך בכל לבבך ובכל נפשך ובכל מאדך

    And You shall Love ET

    Zechariah 12:10

    ושפכתי על בית דויד ועל יושב ירושלם רוח חן ותחנונים והביטו אלי את אשר דקרו וספדו עליו כמספד על היחיד והמר עליו כהמר על הבכור

    They shall look upon ET

    There are about 100 abnormal letters in the Masoretic text of the Bible—many of them in the Pentateuch—which were always copied by the scribes, and appear also in the printed editions. Among these letters are: the "waw.......

    4) "Shema'" (hear; Deut. vi. 4) must be placed at the beginning of the line, and all its letters must be spaced; "eḥad" (one), the last word of the same verse, must be placed at the end of the line (the Masorah has the "'ayin" of "Shema'" and the "dalet" of "eḥad" large).

    Without the vowel system in the Masoretic text, which helps to show how a word was used, their understanding of what the word meant. The basis for English Translations, A Good start and without it, any understanding would be difficult at best.

    The letter Anomalies which they would not have added to the actual text, were Inspired at the original writing.

    These abnormalities are in addition to All the untranslated ET, these are just a few of them, and how the the meaning can be missed in the English.

    There are Obvious reasons why Judaism doesn't like these verses, and intentionally misintranslate Pierce in Zechariah 12:10 in the JPS version of the Hebrew Bible - Prefer not to talk about the sign of the Virgin Birth in Isaiah, always trying to attribute these verses to any other person in History, than YESHUA.

    Luke 24:44
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  19. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

    143
    +25
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Jeremiah 31:33 *2

    כי זאת הברית אשר אכרת את בית ישראל אחרי הימים ההם נאם יהוה נתתי את תורתי בקרבם ועל לבם אכתבנה והייתי להם לאלהים והמה יהיו לי לעם

    אֶת־בֵּית

    ET_Bet Yisrael

    Aleph~Taw_House/Family Arm Cross, Israel

    אֶת־תֹּֽורָתִי

    ET_
    ToW-RoTaY inner parts (Romans 7:22)

    Aleph~Taw_ Cross Nail- Head-Cross - Arm

    There are over 7000, occurrences of the Aleph~Taw in the Tanakh, Messiah's Signature.

    Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 22:13






    Matthew 23:23 The Weightier Matters



     
  20. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

    143
    +25
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Removed video... sold out for 501c3 status - They started well, and all the sudden the work He gives becomes a money making deal... OY VEY
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
Loading...