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Ex-Christian asking spirit-filled Christians to save him

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by Lucian Hodoboc, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. Joyous Song

    Joyous Song Well-Known Member

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    Spyware I heard of. I never gone on twitter or Face Book though I watch a few things on face book and hear about tweets on TV News. I simply do not have time to go onto these platforms. I also have highly limited internet which may be good as it ignorance in some things maybe bliss.
     
  2. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Well-Known Member

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    I thought that, for an unbeliever, death means eternal torment. Unless you're claiming that eternal torment is healing, I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
     
  3. Joyous Song

    Joyous Song Well-Known Member

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    Joyous Song: All what the pastor says would be true in regards to what you say if death were indeed an evil and unhealing, but I tell you this is no so:

    Lucian Hodoboc: I thought that, for an unbeliever, death means enteral torment. Unless your claiming eternal torment can be healing, I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make.

    JS: I always believe true unbelievers (not those really angry with G-d agnostics) want hell, which is by definition separation from G-d. For you and me that would be torment but for those that belong to Satan its what they want, strangely.

    Yet the question I was answering was about why I believed death could heal and you quoted a pastor to prove my assertion wrong. So for a believer praying for healing and healing being death through redemption is healing. Also non-believers need to understand that not all Christians speak for all Christians. Many atheists are so because of Christian hypocrites! Thus I had to challenge that pastors assertions because evil could come from them.

    Besides, for a non believer, why would they pray for healing and to whom?
     
  4. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any scriptural support to base this belief on?
     
  5. Joyous Song

    Joyous Song Well-Known Member

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    JS: Not unless we take into count the L-rd is merciful an just. How could a merciful, Just L-rd send people who want to be with him to hell? What of those who hate Him, is it merciful and Just to force them into His presence of they hate Him?

    So can I PROVE it, I'm not certain and do not have my Bible with me or the scripture I would need at the top of my head. Let me get back to you in a week or two and I be able to answer this better. But right now I'm ill prepared and short of time.
     
  6. 1watchman

    1watchman Overseer Supporter

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    Well, I probably won't go to a 'tic-tok' but you might want to let Him know that he MUST do as all of must do ---ask God to help by showing us in His immutable "Word of Truth" (Holy Bible) how His "...beloved Son": the Lord Jesus, can save souls for eternity in Heaven and give us much assurance and peace now (noting what God tells us: John 3; John 14; Acts 4:12; Romans 8; etc) in a reliable Bible like the Authorized KJV Bible. Without God's Word the future is all guess-work by men.
     
  7. Joyous Song

    Joyous Song Well-Known Member

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    I have more time now so now I'm going to give a more thorough response.

    Joyous Song: I always believe true unbelievers (not those really angry with G-d agnostics) want hell...

    Lucian Hodoboc: Do you have any scriptural proof for this?

    JS: the entire quote was “I always believe true unbelievers (not those really angry with G-d agnostics) want hell, which is by definition separation from G-d. For you and me that would be torment but for those that belong to Satan its what they want, strangely.”

    Which belief are you speaking of? the belief that those angry with G-d can still be saved? This I learned from a woman who died and was brought back to life. Her testimony was that she grew angry with Him because of all the evil that she had faced in her life. She brought this out in outright disobedience and sin.

    Then she died and went to heaven or rather a place between I believe but HaShem was there. He said He did not see her as she was when she died but as she was as a child showing her that Innocent child she had been before that evil had entered her life.

    According to her testimony, she was given the option to go on to heaven and to him or go back and be a witness. She chose going back and the rest is history.

    As to the other assertion its based on the fact the HaShem is ultimately merciful. Thus even we though foolish acts, or mistakes, keep ourselves from his Love. As that woman’s testimony shows, He can default us back to that time of innocents all other memories of our falling removed.

    He can also bring tribulation down upon us, that “valley of death” in psalm 23, to draw us away from sin and closer to Him (meaning of the rest of the passage). Yet if He is so merciful, that He Who is greater than us chooses to discipline and heal our soul. Why would that same merciful Father, force into His Presence on who hates Him?

    Would that act be merciful? I don’t think so and this is where my belief came from. Still we do not know their hearts only He does. Thus the sinner with hate for G-d could be really crying out for help in a voice only He can hear.

    Likewise many claiming they have faith may really not have it, and the god they believe in is really Satan (goats; Unwise bridesmaids, neither hot nor cold, etc...). They face external punishment, by their own heart and not by the Heart they rejected willfully.
     
  8. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Well-Known Member

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    Signing up for a TikTok account is free and takes only a couple of minutes. The account can also be deleted at anytime after its creation. If you believe that your words could contribute to guiding this man on the right path, I think it would be worth doing so, especially since it would cost you so little.
     
  9. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

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    I would like to suggest that your blanket statement is not true. There are "some" people in the Pentecostal movement that at times unbalanced views of God. I am a Pentecostal and I have never in all the churches I have been involved in seen money-making scams, preying on desperate women. I believe the view I hold of God is balanced, a God who saves, and at times heals illness, and delivers. As the bible says:

    Joh 14:12-14 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

    It is fringe elements within the denomination that give the bad view, as there are in your baptist denomination, there are always people out there that blur the lines between truth and fiction.
     
  10. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

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    I signed up to tiktok, just so I could reply. But it is a little hard to do so when you have a 150-word limit.
     
  11. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    Fringe? In my congregation there are those who like HillSong, Bethel and the New Apostolic Alliance. A church I used to go to the pastor supported Benny Hinn and his insane blessing theology. God blesses His people but not as a right but as a gift. The Lords principles are love brings life, and sin leads to death. The sermon on the mount is about investing in the people one knows and being a blessing to them even when they are sinful to oneself. This is building ones house upon the rock. At least 50% of the contributors on one forum thought this was legalism and trying to earn your salvation.

    Kenneth Copland is a "billionaire" on the backs of TV and sow into my ministry and God will multiply blessings, money, into your life. You do not get that level of wealth and support unless you have become mainstream. Latter reign or rain theology deemed heresy in the 1970's is now running a lot of congregations, the idea the super apostles will reign with Christ when he returns.

    It is no wonder this kind of theology plays well to young ambitious people on the cusp of setting up families and gaining wealth. It is a small step between I am blessed because I am involved with X and not I am in a group who always gain wealth as they get promoted and work through their companies.

    I have seen the culture of illness is evil and health is Gods blessing. There is no struggling through difficult times, or love overcoming the obstacles of lifes walk, just a golden road into eternity. So many have claimed God healed them while they literally died. God makes us whole in His kingdom, and takes us home. We enter into this reality, not fight to deny His will. It is a kind of unbelief and calling God the enemy to be sovereign. I am blessed to be alive, though relatively young, older than my father and his father, living in a country and situation with so much blessing it is hard to quantify the bliss and ease with which I live. 2 generations ago, out of 6 kids only 2 made it to adulthood and marriage etc. We live is a blessed world beyond any dream people of old would have had, yet for some it is not enough. By the way I am charismatic, Spirit filled and walking with the Lord.

    God bless you
     
  12. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Since he doesn’t mention repentance from sin (or you don’t) it’s doubtful he was ever a Christian. Many people are encouraged to “become christian by asking Jesus into their hearts” without repentance of sin.
     
  13. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    Dear one,
    It is good that you are concerned about those who are lost.

    So dear brothers and sisters in Christ,
    Let us heed to the voice of our Lord, that said:

    "See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. -Matthew 18:10

    So let us perceive and not despise those who are of little faith. Yes, we have heard that he went to church five days a week, spent hours studying bible, and learned from concordance with Latin, Hebrews and Greek that good stuff, he said. But later he said, that men who wrote the Bible — he knew nothing about.
    Do we not consider that man from TikTok have little faith or no faith ?

    Yes, we heard he quoted John 6:63 that the Lord said:

    It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. -John 6:63

    We all heard that he commented that he tried to apply in his own life and doesn’t match his expectations. Why ? This is what we have heard:

    For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. -Hebrews 4:2

    So that man from TikTok did not mix with faith what he heard.

    That man from TikTok considered prayer was like a rolling a dice. If he said that he studied the Bible, he would have heard what our Lord Himself have said:

    Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have RECEIVED it, and it will be yours. -Mark 11:24
    And whenever you stand praying, FORGIVE, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses." -Mark 11:25

    Clearly, that man from TikTok doubted what the Lord have said and have not applied what the Lord have said with faith.

    Is he truly saved ? Isn’t that what the man from TikTok related to us ?

    This is what we have heard :
    Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. -John 3:36

    If that man from TikTok has obeyed the Lord, the wrath of God would not remain on Him.

    For we heard:
    assuming that you have heard about Him (Christ) and were taught in Him (Christ), as the truth is in Jesus, -Ephesians 4:21
    to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, -Ephesians 4:22
    and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, -Ephesians 4:23
    and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. -Ephesians 4:24

    It is obvious that man from TikTok didn’t obey the Lord. If he had obeyed, he should understand that he was taught in union with Christ. Clearly, he was not in union with Christ. That man from TikTok should put off his old self, should have renewed his mind in accord with the Spirit of God and put on the new self.

    I understand many are confused by that man from TikTok went to church for five days a week, spent hours studying Bible for ten years, and understand Latin, Hebrews and Greek — still missed what the Lord have said.

    In my early years after I was born again, when I was hungry and thirsty for the word of God, I was astonished that the presence of the Lord went far from me when I studied the Bible. I thought I would have pleased Him. I come to understand that I seek the Lord for my intellectual self edification, and that didn’t please the Lord. So from then on, I never seek the Lord Jesus Christ for intellectual self edification but I seek the Lord for His steadfast love; That He was crucified for my offenses and raised up for my justification.
     
  14. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    Dear one,
    That man from TikTok, was saying that it is the Father’s will, not any should perish; that he didn’t want to go to hell; and he wanted us to speak the word to him.

    These are the words that I will speak to the man from TikTok :
    “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

    Why I do say that? This is what we have heard:

    Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. -2 Timothy 1:13

    So that good things that were committed to me from apostle Paul, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus, I speak to that man from TikTok : Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.

    Just as apostle Paul and Silas preached to the prison guard who asked them :

    Then he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" -Acts 16:30

    And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." -Acts 16:31

    As many who were lost and believe in the Lord Jesus, this is what we have heard the Lord Himself have said:

    And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. -Matthew 18:13

    So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. -Matthew 18:14
     
  15. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Just for balance, I do seek the Lord for understanding which I can now see, after doing so for decades, is loving God with your mind. I do not seek experience. I seek to understand. "With all that you get, get understanding" is the Biblical injunction. This is not for my pleasure nor to please Him except in so far as "when he says "seek you my face," his face did I seek." That is obedience, not pleasing Him per se although that is an outcome.

    So seeking to understand is not seeking to experience pleasure. It is loving God with your mind, a commandment.
     
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