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Ex-Christian asking spirit-filled Christians to save him

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by Lucian Hodoboc, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Well-Known Member

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    This TikTok user ( tiktok.com/@shawnscott55 ) has posted several videos in which he gives a short account about how he used to be a devout Christian for 10 years, went to church several days a week, gave his life to Jesus, prayed, studied the Bible in multiple languages etc., but eventually realized that, when he took The Word and applied it to his life, it did not accomplish what it was supposed to accomplish, so he rapidly lost his faith and became an atheist.

    tiktok.com/@shawnscott55/video/6929570032070462726

    In a recent video (linked below), he made a request (well, a challenge actually) to spirit-filled Christians to pray for his salvation. Watch the video and share your thoughts below. If you have a TikTok account, feel free to leave him some loving comments and, if you can help him in any way, let him know.

    tiktok.com/@shawnscott55/video/6934817758496476422
     
  2. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    The guys theology is spirit filled people can command faith in another. A gift must be recognised from the giver and the giver honoured.

    Pentecostal / charismatic superstition holds believers have creative power except they cannot correct their own eyesight. Pain problems are eased, except not really, legs grown longer.

    Charlatans and fools rush in to money making scams preying on desperate women in need of real solutions

    The first real step of faith is obeying Jesus and listening to ones heart.

    God bless you
     
  3. returntosender

    returntosender EL ROI Supporter

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    You can do this. You know how. It can't be done by anyone else for anyone else.
    Now get a grip and cut it out and get serious.
    if you want to be saved then do it. God will not accept it from anyone else but you and he is waiting for you.
    Stop the foolishness! You have a long background in this so go!
    God Bless you.
     
  4. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Well-Known Member

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    Who are you talking to?
     
  5. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    @Lucian Hodoboc this is one of those unfair challenges, and actually reminds me a lot of what the Soviets did with the Russian Orthodox believers in the early days of the Revolution. They would ask a boy to pray for some food item to be rained down (e.g. - candy, bread etc.), after a minute or two when that doesn't immediately happen they would have him or someone pray to Lenin for candy, or whatever only to be showered with it by various enthusiastic young communists hidden on the roof of the building, or a balcony etc. throwing down the item on the crowd of impressionable youths.
     
  6. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Well-Known Member

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    A person who has dedicated 10 years of their life to following the Christian doctrine instructions, and was faced with evidence against God's existence, wants to be saved from hell, but doesn't know how to conjure up faith, the one thing that Christian doctrine states is necessary for salvation. Why do you think it is unfair for this person to ask the people who claim to possess this one thing for help?
     
  7. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    I'm not on tik tok so i can't answer, but I would say that no matter how much time and effort he put into studying the Bible, faith is about making Jesus Lord, not about putting the Word to work for you; for without the former the latter makes God our mere servant and our religion is man-centered.

    Should it surprise anyone with faith that prayer is "hit or miss" with regard to results? Of course not every prayer gets answered the way we want and when we want. This is why Paul likens faith to a race. We always need to press forward or the opponent, unbelief, will take the lead. Faith endures the misses and perseveres patiently. It doesn't arbitrarily draw the line on God and judge Him unfaithful or not real.
     
  8. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    It's basically Schrodinger's Cat issue.

    Schrödinger's cat


    There was a US Legal TV show (The Practice) from years ago that really illustrated it. An old accomplished lawyer who was going senile / having some kind of Alzheimer's or dementia asked one his favorite former law students for help on a case. Things don't go well where he shows himself incompetent and the student grieves because she is going to have report him to the bar and take away his ability to practice law. But he convinces, the student to let him give the closing, and he gives this one parable that he was famous for, that often moved the hearts of juries toward his side when things weren't going well. It was about a sadistic judge that would base his ruling on whether or not a person could guess if the dove he had in his pocket was alive or dead. He would free the dove when someone said it was dead, and crush it when someone said it was it was alive. Until finally someone had the wisdom to say "Oh judge, the fate of the dove is in your hands..."



    There are some other problems with this.

    Mark 6:5

    Then Jesus said to them, “Only in his hometown, among his relatives, and in his own household is a prophet without honor.” 5So He could not perform any miracles there, except to lay His hands on a few of the sick and heal them.


    MATTHEW 13:58
    And He did not many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.



    The question and challenge is a kind of strawman and sophistry. His being a Christian and studying this for 10 years means nothing to me, I have studied much longer and still have times of temptation, Existential struggles etc. because that is what the life of Faith is about.

    The ultimate question is not this guy, but if you want to really follow this "logic" to the ultimate conclusion then why not apply it to Satan / the Devil? Satan and the demons have been unsaved much longer than this guy....



    PS - the person in the video uses a four letter word that is generally banned from the board, except with a few exceptions like links to raw news footage.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  9. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Well-Known Member

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    Provided you genuinely try to seek His Will and obey the commandments everyday, yes, it should surprise us that prayer is "hit or miss". Because we have a covenant with God. A covenant is a contract in which both parties keep their promises. Jesus promised that if we abide in Him, anything we ask in His Name He will do. Why? Cause God's our servant? No. So that He may be glorified. God always kept His side of the deal in the covenant He made with Israel. Whenever they disobeyed Him, He would allow them to suffer the consequences of their sin for a while, and then, when they sought Him again, He rescued them.

    Then what criteria should a person who lacks faith use to determine the validity of Christianity? If God adheres to the covenant (that the Bible presents) only at random times, without giving any explanations for the times when He doesn't offer help, what methods should a person use to distinguish God's help from mere chance?

    How can you have a close relationship with a God that you seem to describe as inconsistent and unwilling to be questioned? Such a God seems unapproachable.
     
  10. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He is tempting God. " Do not put the Lord your God to the test". Let's not fall into this trap.
    Blessings.
     
  11. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is how an unbeliever can be, but claiming this is God's problem!

    See what happens if you question the sincerity or honesty of someone who does not believe.

    Also > in questioning, unbelievers can make very unfair requirements of how they dictate that "God" has to answer to them. They can try to be God's dictator.
     
  12. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    The problem with these types of questions, is they are specific to the questioner, and you need to interact with them to fully understand what they are asking and what they think being a christian actually is.

    I have met folk who believed they were believers but actually did not understand their own faith and what it meant.
    Others who I would regard as another faith, use scripture and biblical language but deny the need to follow and obey Christ. Others again look at faith as a legalistic endeavour while others again as a super spiritual experience in the heavenlies.

    Now to make it more complicated the asker may come from one of these groups and be wanting to return, to which I would say they actually need to repent and come to Christ and be born again.

    So believing a question like this has just one answer simply is not where we are.

    God bless you
     
  13. Taodeching

    Taodeching Well-Known Member

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    This is interesting. Can anyone help or will there be excuses as to why people can't help him.
     
  14. Joyous Song

    Joyous Song Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the answer is every here should pray for him. and someone here claimed prayers are always answered. I agree this is true but often the answers we get are not the ones we sought. We pray for healing so He takes them home. They are healed, by death comes life. But we kinda wanted them alive and healthy. That's just one example.
     
  15. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Well-Known Member

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    You don't see one single example or verse suggesting that God replies to honest prayers for healing with death, in the entire New Testament. To quote pastor Dan Mohler,

     
  16. Taodeching

    Taodeching Well-Known Member

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    Not everything is in the Bible, I prayed for both me parents and they both are dead
     
  17. Joyous Song

    Joyous Song Well-Known Member

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    Lucian Hodoboc: You don’t see one single example or verse suggesting that G-d replies to honest prayer for healing with death, in the entire New Testament. To quote Pastor Mohler:

    How can G-d give you a promise in the Bible and say He is faithful to His Word without turning or shifting of shadow, then you hold Him to His promise in relationship and love with a pure heart and sincerity and G-d turn the table on you and tell you - He has sovereignty changed His Mind – and He is G-d and you are not – and you just need to hang there.

    If you taught your children this way, it would be a form of child abuse. You would teach them how to never honor your word. Devaluing the Word – Satan loves that because it devalues the honor of the Word. And G-d didn’t really mean what He said (same voice that Eve in the garden.)


    JS: All what the pastor says would be true in regards to what you say if death were indeed an evil end and not healing, but I tell you this is not so:


    Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? I death, where is your sting?” 1Cor.16.54-55


    Perhaps another true story of how HaShem answered prayer with death and death was a mercy indeed will help you see this situation does not apply:

    Years ago we had friends who were also our neighbors. The wife was a strong Catholic, her husband -faith was grounded more in her saintly actions and love than in G-d’s power. So when she got inoperable cancer with enormous pain, his faith was deeply shaken. Of course all of those who love them prayed for healing. In our human understanding, her husband needed her to heal, he needed a miracle. Yet her situation worsened despite our prayers.

    On the evening of her death, at that very hour, minute and second, my husband woke from a dream. In the dream she stood before him arms outstretched and surrounded by light saying she was healed and at peace smiling brightly as she once had before the cancer ravaged her body. Stunned he called that morning next door to find she died and relaid that dream to her grieving husband. It was then that both realized that dream came just as her spirit left her body!

    So we got our miracle. Just not the one we thought we would be getting but an important miracle just the same. This was the first time my prayers ended up with the sick person being healed through death, but it would not be my last. My father died under such circumstances and his death brought healing, mercy and wonder. I shared this story on the writers section of CF. Its called In The Living Years, if your interested in reading of this (In The Living Years).

    Further that pastors’ position sounds too much like “lucky rabbits foot” praying or “Divine slot machine” praying. Did not Christ ask HaShem: “Avinu, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not My will, but as Thy Wills.”

    Did that cup pass? By no means. Did HaShem did not “changed His Mind” nor did He say “I am G-d and You are not”. Christ was aligned to HaShem, praise be He, He knew the answer before he asked it. Yet he asked anyway I believe, as an example to us on how to pray. Thus each prayer for healing, prosperity and mercy should be augmented by “nevertheless, not My will, but as Thy Wills” in some form.

    To align ones prayers perfectly to the Will and full manifestation of HaShem, praise be He, thus Creation, one would needs a faith far stronger than I have. Further telling us “and you just need to hang there” which we received by the way, and then claiming that answer comes from Satan undermines the mercy we received and thousands of miracles we experienced while “hanging in there”! Indeed “hanging in there” happens to be called “The Dark Night of the Soul” or 23rd Ps:

    Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies, My cup overflows.” 4-5

    It’s a blessing not a curse! Of course when HaShem says: “hang in there” He not changing His mind but ours, thus He’s clarifying His Will in our lives. I know this because during a very dark time over these past twenty some years I had a dream. In that dream I came out of my house smiling brightly.

    The sun shined down, I was healthy, my smile perfect, everyone around me seemed the same. I thought something, it was a idea on a story, and suddenly into my mind I heard people giving me ideas. I knew my story was really our story and that didn’t bother me. I also knew I could go to HaMoshiach and ask for anything and He give it, only I needed nothing- I already had Shalom.

    Five years ago when we first starting praying for healing of Micheal, his two daughter were still in high and middle school and dependent. He lost his job and went on disability then and had suffered four years of chemo and treatments that prolonged his life but at a cost. Throughout he been upbeat and mostly happy and a good support to those two girls. His life was not easy and these last year with isolation things started getting worse.

    However, both girls have graduated and one is in collage and both are working. They are not the young struggling teens but both young accomplished and accomplishing women, and his ex wife had been providing for them while helping out him. Quiet honestly, this really isn’t a bad time to take him home. It hard for those left behind, but Tzalka (our former next door neighbor) said, “I’m healed; I’m at peace,” death wounds us, not the one who is redeemed and gaining eternal Life.

    I do not see or know when those I pray for die if they experience what Tzalka and my Father did. Their story is not my story and I now know the truth already, I do not need more. Still, for Lent and Pesach cleaning I place the prayer that I accept His perfect Will in my life. Thus the prayer: May the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be pleasing to You my Rock and Redeemer, in the Daily Amadah have taken on an entirely different meaning.

    HaShem often says, My way is not your way. This is something we all must remember when we pray.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  18. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The only One with salvific power is Christ... when He recognises the truth of that, he'll be saved... we find our rest in Christ, not anything, or anyone else - not people, not signs and wonders, just Christ alone.

    There's a power in that beyond all imagining, but it's spiritual, not material. So long as he's looking for the material things, he'll be lost.

    I don't have tik tok (nor will I put that spyware on my phone or computer ) but you can share that from me if you like
     
  19. Joyous Song

    Joyous Song Well-Known Member

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    What tik tok? I admit I'm not into any social media except this site and other Christian site. Message boards, blogs and web pages are my extent of knowledge.
     
  20. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's spyware stupidity... lol. Twitter on steroids in short video format. Discussion boards are so so so much better!
     
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