Feb 10-12 is Evolution Weekend among religious congregations. For those of you who still think evolution is atheism, I suggest going to The Clergy Letter Project and reading about it.
Evolution Weekend
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For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
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hi guys,
You know, I looked at the supporting organizations and what I was amazed by is how many of them seem to be unitarian universalist. It causes me to go, 'hmmmm.' Can I expect to find the truth within that organization?
Here's some information that those who believe God and His Son Jesus might want to consider before throwing in their lot with such an organization and those that follow it's example:
Although UUism comes from a Christian tradition, ours is not a Christian church per se (a small percentage of UUs call themselves Christian), but it welcomes Christians, as it does all people, in its catholicity. Ours is a non-creedal, non-doctrinal religion. So as we are not a Christian church, neither are we Buddhist, Confucian, Hindu, Islamic, Judaic, nor Taoist. We do, however, draw wisdom from these and other of the world's religions, which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life.
Most UUs don't believe that Jesus was a supernatural being. Many would say that the power of his love, the penetrating simplicity of his teachings, and the force of his example of service on behalf of the disenfranchised and the downtrodden are what is crucial, not his supposed miraculous birth nor the claim that he was resurrected from the dead. Some would say that Jesus was the son of God, as we are all sons and daughters of God, but not the same as God.
Generally UUs regard Jesus as one of several important moral and ethical teachers who have shown humans how to live a life of love, service, and compassion. Our concern is not with how he was born or how he died, but with how he lived.
and:
Three years of study and conversation have not brought us to a complete consensus about a common core to our faith. Yet we have found much common ground along the way. . . . Respecting the integrity of individual perspective, we offer the following statements as descriptive of who Unitarian Universalists are theologically:
We are a grounded faith. We are a faith with roots, however lightly held, that go back two thousand years and more. Unlike other more recently evolving nontraditional faiths, ours is solidly grounded in both the realm of history and the realm of ideas.
We are an ecological faith. The “interdependent web†concept of our Seventh Principle is not new to history (the “Net of Indra†in Hindu and Buddhist thought has been around for several thousand years). But in the West this vision of interconnectedness has had an uphill struggle to displace a more hierarchical vision of the nature of the cosmos. We have placed the web squarely at the center of our shared worldview.
We are a profoundly human faith. Whether we see our charge as loving our neighbor or ending the suffering of all sentient beings, whether a transcendent dimension is part of our worldview or not, our primary focus for religious action is the well-being of this world. We wrestle with our ideas about human limitation and human power and acknowledge that our understandings are imperfect.
We are a responsible faith. At our best, we are able to respond to our deep sense of interconnectedness with both the natural and human worlds. Whatever our source of religious inspiration, we understand that humanity must take its responsibility for the state of the world seriously. We humans have created many of the ills from which we and all creatures on this planet suffer. We have the ability to ameliorate suffering, if only we find the will to do so. Our diverse sources of religious inspiration power our will to act.
We are an experiential faith. We are focused more on experience (our own and that of trusted others, past and present) than beliefs. We do not hold with beliefs that contradict our experience, although we recognize that there are realities that can draw us beyond the present limits of our knowledge.
We are a free faith. We are free both as individuals and as congregations. We recognize the authenticity and integrity of each individual’s life journey, and concepts such as “building your own theology†or “composing a faith†resonate with us. We are a faith of heretics (from the Greek hairesis, “to chooseâ€).
We are an imaginative faith. We engage with image and story, garnering wisdom from many traditions and building bridges between them, making a place where creativity can flourish.
We are a relational faith. While we support the individual journey, we ground it in caring community. Relational language occurs more frequently than any other in core-of-faith statements shared with the commission.
We are a covenantal faith. We are held together, from our Reformation roots, by our chosen commitment to each other rather than by creed, ecclesiastical authority, or revealed truth. We began to reclaim that heritage with the language of our Principles. More recently, we have come to recognize ourselves as a dialogical faith; the explosion of covenant groups in our midst reflects this. We are reminded of Francis David’s admonition over four centuries ago: “We need not think alike to love alike.â€
We are a curious faith. Freedom and tolerance have been central to our tradition at least since the Reformation. The psychological characteristics and values of people drawn to our ranks suggest openness is a compelling characteristic, even if we do not always live our values of tolerance, acceptance, and respect as well as we might. We acknowledge that our perspective is limited, that we could be wrong, that we live in the midst of uncertainties, yet we are ever open to new insights.
We are a reasonable faith. We do not ask people to check their rationality at the door, and we encourage the practice of disciplined inquiry toward personal and societal assumptions. We challenge idolatries, especially our own. We are positive toward the findings of science, while questioning the values that at times motivate choices in that area, as in every other.
We are a hopeful faith. We are a faith of possibilities, aspiring to be (though we often fall short) a transformative faith, a justice-seeking faith. We would create a space for the realization of possibility, whether we call it the “commonwealth of God†or the “Beloved Community.â€
A powerful vision! And one that can be claimed by all strands of the UU tradition. At the same time, UUs should not lose sight of the critiques mirrored by the more newly visible strands in the UU web of community. For theological concerns surface organically when they are called forth by the cry of the heart and the need of the world; these strands are growing because the times call for what they offer.
Neopaganism reminds UUs that we would do well to become a more embodied faith, respecting the power of ritual and the importance of beauty, living more fully in our individual and corporate bodies and therefore more respectful of the body of Gaia. The rise of Buddhist influence in the UU midst reflects a hunger for a more mindful faith, willing to be disciplined, fully present in the moment, and aware of the depths as well as the drama of being, and of UUs’ compassionate connection with all sentient beings.
Feminist and liberation theologies call us to a more prophetic faith, a more risk-taking faith, daring to name what is broken, to challenge assumptions and to take actions requiring discomfort and sacrifice, that we might contribute more effectively to the repair and transformation of our world. They remind us that talking is not enough.
All of these newer emphases within the UU faith tradition call us to the disciplined embodiment of our values and commitments and the strengthening of those qualities that will help us to live them with integrity--to be more whole and to contribute to making the world more whole. This is more than a new spin on “salvation by character†and “service to humankind--onward and upward forever.†It challenges UUs to incorporate a wholeness of being and contemporary ideas into the UU tradition’s long-held commitments.
Every strand of the UU tradition holds up a mirror to our lives and to the society in which we live. Each brings both critique and constructive practice. Every strand has evolved in recent decades toward a more inclusive vision of wholeness and interconnectedness. Each brings a somewhat different perspective and body of wisdom to the circle of dialogue. As UUs grow more diverse, we are also growing toward more solid common ground.
Notice, and this comes from the site: uuworld.org : liberal religion and life , that there is not a single mention in all of this 'statement of faith' does not once mention God, Jesus or the Scriptures. As I say, 'hmmmmmm.'
God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
You know, I looked at the supporting organizations and what I was amazed by is how many of them seem to be unitarian universalist. It causes me to go, 'hmmmm.' Can I expect to find the truth within that organization?
Here's some information that those who believe God and His Son Jesus might want to consider before throwing in their lot with such an organization and those that follow it's example:
Although UUism comes from a Christian tradition, ours is not a Christian church per se (a small percentage of UUs call themselves Christian), but it welcomes Christians, as it does all people, in its catholicity. Ours is a non-creedal, non-doctrinal religion. So as we are not a Christian church, neither are we Buddhist, Confucian, Hindu, Islamic, Judaic, nor Taoist. We do, however, draw wisdom from these and other of the world's religions, which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life.
Most UUs don't believe that Jesus was a supernatural being. Many would say that the power of his love, the penetrating simplicity of his teachings, and the force of his example of service on behalf of the disenfranchised and the downtrodden are what is crucial, not his supposed miraculous birth nor the claim that he was resurrected from the dead. Some would say that Jesus was the son of God, as we are all sons and daughters of God, but not the same as God.
Generally UUs regard Jesus as one of several important moral and ethical teachers who have shown humans how to live a life of love, service, and compassion. Our concern is not with how he was born or how he died, but with how he lived.
and:
Three years of study and conversation have not brought us to a complete consensus about a common core to our faith. Yet we have found much common ground along the way. . . . Respecting the integrity of individual perspective, we offer the following statements as descriptive of who Unitarian Universalists are theologically:
We are a grounded faith. We are a faith with roots, however lightly held, that go back two thousand years and more. Unlike other more recently evolving nontraditional faiths, ours is solidly grounded in both the realm of history and the realm of ideas.
We are an ecological faith. The “interdependent web†concept of our Seventh Principle is not new to history (the “Net of Indra†in Hindu and Buddhist thought has been around for several thousand years). But in the West this vision of interconnectedness has had an uphill struggle to displace a more hierarchical vision of the nature of the cosmos. We have placed the web squarely at the center of our shared worldview.
We are a profoundly human faith. Whether we see our charge as loving our neighbor or ending the suffering of all sentient beings, whether a transcendent dimension is part of our worldview or not, our primary focus for religious action is the well-being of this world. We wrestle with our ideas about human limitation and human power and acknowledge that our understandings are imperfect.
We are a responsible faith. At our best, we are able to respond to our deep sense of interconnectedness with both the natural and human worlds. Whatever our source of religious inspiration, we understand that humanity must take its responsibility for the state of the world seriously. We humans have created many of the ills from which we and all creatures on this planet suffer. We have the ability to ameliorate suffering, if only we find the will to do so. Our diverse sources of religious inspiration power our will to act.
We are an experiential faith. We are focused more on experience (our own and that of trusted others, past and present) than beliefs. We do not hold with beliefs that contradict our experience, although we recognize that there are realities that can draw us beyond the present limits of our knowledge.
We are a free faith. We are free both as individuals and as congregations. We recognize the authenticity and integrity of each individual’s life journey, and concepts such as “building your own theology†or “composing a faith†resonate with us. We are a faith of heretics (from the Greek hairesis, “to chooseâ€).
We are an imaginative faith. We engage with image and story, garnering wisdom from many traditions and building bridges between them, making a place where creativity can flourish.
We are a relational faith. While we support the individual journey, we ground it in caring community. Relational language occurs more frequently than any other in core-of-faith statements shared with the commission.
We are a covenantal faith. We are held together, from our Reformation roots, by our chosen commitment to each other rather than by creed, ecclesiastical authority, or revealed truth. We began to reclaim that heritage with the language of our Principles. More recently, we have come to recognize ourselves as a dialogical faith; the explosion of covenant groups in our midst reflects this. We are reminded of Francis David’s admonition over four centuries ago: “We need not think alike to love alike.â€
We are a curious faith. Freedom and tolerance have been central to our tradition at least since the Reformation. The psychological characteristics and values of people drawn to our ranks suggest openness is a compelling characteristic, even if we do not always live our values of tolerance, acceptance, and respect as well as we might. We acknowledge that our perspective is limited, that we could be wrong, that we live in the midst of uncertainties, yet we are ever open to new insights.
We are a reasonable faith. We do not ask people to check their rationality at the door, and we encourage the practice of disciplined inquiry toward personal and societal assumptions. We challenge idolatries, especially our own. We are positive toward the findings of science, while questioning the values that at times motivate choices in that area, as in every other.
We are a hopeful faith. We are a faith of possibilities, aspiring to be (though we often fall short) a transformative faith, a justice-seeking faith. We would create a space for the realization of possibility, whether we call it the “commonwealth of God†or the “Beloved Community.â€
A powerful vision! And one that can be claimed by all strands of the UU tradition. At the same time, UUs should not lose sight of the critiques mirrored by the more newly visible strands in the UU web of community. For theological concerns surface organically when they are called forth by the cry of the heart and the need of the world; these strands are growing because the times call for what they offer.
Neopaganism reminds UUs that we would do well to become a more embodied faith, respecting the power of ritual and the importance of beauty, living more fully in our individual and corporate bodies and therefore more respectful of the body of Gaia. The rise of Buddhist influence in the UU midst reflects a hunger for a more mindful faith, willing to be disciplined, fully present in the moment, and aware of the depths as well as the drama of being, and of UUs’ compassionate connection with all sentient beings.
Feminist and liberation theologies call us to a more prophetic faith, a more risk-taking faith, daring to name what is broken, to challenge assumptions and to take actions requiring discomfort and sacrifice, that we might contribute more effectively to the repair and transformation of our world. They remind us that talking is not enough.
All of these newer emphases within the UU faith tradition call us to the disciplined embodiment of our values and commitments and the strengthening of those qualities that will help us to live them with integrity--to be more whole and to contribute to making the world more whole. This is more than a new spin on “salvation by character†and “service to humankind--onward and upward forever.†It challenges UUs to incorporate a wholeness of being and contemporary ideas into the UU tradition’s long-held commitments.
Every strand of the UU tradition holds up a mirror to our lives and to the society in which we live. Each brings both critique and constructive practice. Every strand has evolved in recent decades toward a more inclusive vision of wholeness and interconnectedness. Each brings a somewhat different perspective and body of wisdom to the circle of dialogue. As UUs grow more diverse, we are also growing toward more solid common ground.
Notice, and this comes from the site: uuworld.org : liberal religion and life , that there is not a single mention in all of this 'statement of faith' does not once mention God, Jesus or the Scriptures. As I say, 'hmmmmmm.'
God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
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hi progmonk,
Yes, that's my understanding and teaching.
God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
Yes, that's my understanding and teaching.
God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
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Standing_Ultraviolet
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Could that say more about who was likely to sign the Clergy Letter Project than about theistic evolution, though? The Clergy Letter Project and its Unitarian Universalist and Jewish counterparts are separate (ie., those people did not actually sign the CLP proper), but I will agree that most of the groups on the list are liberal.
The largest Christian group on Earth that allows the teaching of theistic evolution (also the largest Christian group on Earth period), the Catholic Church, has very few members who have signed the Clergy Letter Project. Although not all Catholics believe in evolution, more do than in the mainline Protestant denominations massively represented in the CLP, and all Catholic Churches allow its teaching. This makes me wonder if the letter is more likely to be signed by members of liberal denominations, rather than members of more conservative groups that allow belief in theistic evolution, for a host of complex reasons.
Just a thought.
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Progmonk wrote:
miamited replied:
So, because the un-biblical ideas of heliocentrism and germ theory are espoused by UU, we now know, from Ted, that we should avoid those too.
Wow, that'll help show the world that Christianity is a modern, relevant faith.
Papias
***********************************
Globalwolf wrote:
Actually, I know the history from the start of the CLP, and there is a clear answer to this. The CLP arose in response to a typical creationism outbreak fomented by a literalistic Protestant pastor in the Midwest. Because creationism is a Protestant problem (the Catholic church, as you pointed out, has long allowed theistic evolution), the founder of the CLP contacted Protestant clergy, so as to help Creationists (who are mostly Protestant) get past their creationism, by showing them that many Protestant clergy support evolution. He saw little need to get Catholic support, because that's not where the problem in America is. So - when you don't ask Catholic clergy to sign, it's no surprise that you end up with few signatures from Catholic clergy.
Papias
miamited replied:
So, because the un-biblical ideas of heliocentrism and germ theory are espoused by UU, we now know, from Ted, that we should avoid those too.
Wow, that'll help show the world that Christianity is a modern, relevant faith.
Papias
***********************************
Globalwolf wrote:
Actually, I know the history from the start of the CLP, and there is a clear answer to this. The CLP arose in response to a typical creationism outbreak fomented by a literalistic Protestant pastor in the Midwest. Because creationism is a Protestant problem (the Catholic church, as you pointed out, has long allowed theistic evolution), the founder of the CLP contacted Protestant clergy, so as to help Creationists (who are mostly Protestant) get past their creationism, by showing them that many Protestant clergy support evolution. He saw little need to get Catholic support, because that's not where the problem in America is. So - when you don't ask Catholic clergy to sign, it's no surprise that you end up with few signatures from Catholic clergy.
Papias
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Wow. You are really desperate for a counter, aren't you? This is synedoche. Only a minority of the total churches are Universalist. And the minority is much, much less when you look at the ministers who signed the Clergy Letter. There are Methodist, Episcopal, UCC, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Catholic, etc. It seems that you don't trust them, either.
In this Universalists are not that different from many Christian denominations. The United Methodist Church, for instance, emphasizes Christian living. And that living is concerned with loving our neighbors and the well-being of this world.
You personally can disagree that this should be a focus of the faith, but you should not be calling their devotion to God and the truth into question.
So, are you setting up a True Scotsman fallacy? Or is this just part of your ad hominem and synedoche attack?
Look at the list of ministers that signed the Letter from the clergy. VERY few Universalist ministers. That must really gripe you: 13,000 ministers are kind of hard to dismiss, aren't they?
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Even worse for Miamited, Hitler believed creationism! So by his logic we should reject creationism.
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Standing_Ultraviolet
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Ah. I knew that the original producer of the CLP was from the United Church of Christ, but I was not aware of who he sent his letter to. This makes quite a bit of sense. It could also be that the Catholic Church doesn't want to become involved, as a group, in the creation/evolution arguments that go on in the U.S., especially since the Church accepts members who hold to either view and allows them to make their argument without impediment. Priests might be reluctant to sign it for just that reason, especially if they are personally creationists.
Also, a homily on evolution might be a little bit counterproductive if it's even allowed, since it teaches nothing of any religious importance and would probably split the congregation, with some maybe even leaving to join schismatic groups (like SSPX) over it. Not the best of decisions, to jettison your faith over something that you're allowed to express different beliefs about, but some might do it.
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Global wolf-
Yes, in general I agree. Minor nuances to add - though the RCC does allow either view, the vatican has repeatedly made statements that favor theistic evolution.
Here in America, most lay Catholics appear to support theistic evolution, though even if it would repel a minority, say, 20%, that's still 20% that wouldn't need to be repelled otherwise, and so your argument still holds.
Papias
Yes, in general I agree. Minor nuances to add - though the RCC does allow either view, the vatican has repeatedly made statements that favor theistic evolution.
Here in America, most lay Catholics appear to support theistic evolution, though even if it would repel a minority, say, 20%, that's still 20% that wouldn't need to be repelled otherwise, and so your argument still holds.
Papias
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J
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I have found this to be true for me:
"In fact, for many, the wonders of science often enhance and deepen their awe and gratitude towards God."
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Standing_Ultraviolet
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Yep. To be honest, I personally really enjoy evolutionary science (I love history and science, so for me it's just the most distant part of my chosen area of study), but it's not something that I would say is important enough to bring up in a homily, particularly since it's controversial. For a person who's struggling with their faith because they believe it's not compatible with science, they need to know that the Church allows theistic evolution.
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