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Evolution - Speciation finally observed in the wild?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by tyke, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    God tells us He created 2 creation elements, air,(heaven) and dust (earth without form). Genesis 1:1-2 He correctly told us scientifically, that water was not created. Today's Science knows that water came from gases in the air. It's because God the Spirit of Truth wrote Genesis One from inside the men who penned it. 2Pe 1:21

    There are many examples of this in Genesis, such as Gen 1:21 which correctly shows scientifically that "every living creature" came from water. Science "discovered" this two years ago and NO one can explain how ancient men knew and wrote this recent scientific discovery. I just gave you another reason and you have NO scientific rebuttal to offer?

    ONLY the Christians of the last days before Jesus returns have the "increased knowledge" to understand Genesis. God told Daniel how He hid His scientific Truth in Genesis, to be discovered by the people of the last generation. Daniel 12:4 It's proof of God when one discovers recent that scientific discoveries AGREE with Genesis chapter 1 IF you have the proper interpretation. Amen?
     
  2. PsychoSarah

    PsychoSarah Chaotic Neutral

    +2,555
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    You know for a fact that if I bothered to use anything but the KJV most people would entirely disregard anything I said about scripture outright. I default to that version unless the person I am debating mentions that they prefer a different one.

    The interpretation comes from a few Christian sites that conclude Jesus is talking about Christians in general due to the context.


    -_- you do known theistic evolutionists don't view Jesus as purely myth, right? Heck, even I think he is based on at least 1 real person. Exaggerated through time and the telephone game perhaps, but with some kernel of reality nevertheless.

    Also, kids get offended at the weirdest things, but unless they grew up YEC, I've never seen a kid actually offended by the theory of evolution. Not that it is usually taught to young children; I was 13 before it was even brought up in a biology class. Seriously, though, I highly doubt you haven't offended a child unless you entirely abstain from interacting with children. And I know you offend a few people on here with your biblical interpretation. I don't think the bible's use of "offend" matches up with how it is commonly used in modern day; it comes off as much worse than the emotion I feel when someone cuts me in line.



    Depends on what you mean by "modern". Members of our species anatomically identical to modern people existed well before 11 thousand years ago (I won't acknowledge 12 thousand as being worth mentioning because you already established that you think Noah arrived 11 thousand years ago). As in, if you went back 30,000 years the humans you'd see would just be generally shorter versions of what you see today. In contrast, if you are going by various outward, shallow features, your estimation for Noah's arrival is far too early; light skin, for example, wouldn't exist until multiple thousands of years later.

    All of history points to modern human traits arising gradually, and you have failed to demonstrate otherwise. Maybe you'd have a point if we went straight from hunter gatherers to pyramid building, farming wordsmiths all starting at 11 thousand years ago, but this is not what happens. Ancient human innovations progressed exceptionally slowly even after agriculture was quite common, and plenty of very obviously intelligent innovations, such as boats, predate it.
     
  3. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    That is why I use the KJV. It's less contaminated with the religious views of mere mortal men. I don't believe a person is a Christian just because they claim to be.

    I consider TEs phonies since they must change Scripture in order to support their blasphemy. Ask them IF Adam was made from the dust.

    Do you wish to take your chances on thinking that little children are not offended by godless evolution which teaches that Scripture is not true? I won't judge you but Jesus will.

    People 30k years ago were prehistoric people who have been on Earth for millions of years. They were NOT Humans (descendants of Adam) on Adam's Earth nor the present Earth. Their intelligence was like that of other animals until they married and produced children with Noah's descendants. Genesis 6:4 That's God's Truth Scripturally, scientifically and historically. Amen?
     
  4. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +4,346
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    Got a source for this claim about science?

    So you claim that the Bible says that life came from the water. However, the Bible says:

    Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.​

    That says that plants came from the earth, not water, contradicting your claim. It also contradicts science.

    But let's say you just meant ANIMALS.

    The Bible also says:

    Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

    1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​

    So the Bible doesn't say what you claim it says. Don't cherry pick.

    So the people who claim they are in the club and know the secret knowledge claim that the Bible says the same stuff about the world that science says, even though they never said it UNTIL science showed it was so.

    Cool story.

    Also, you say that no Christian in the 1700s said that the universe was expanding because they were the Christians alive in the last days before Jesus returns. But people have been saying that Jesus was going to return any day for centuries now. Even going by what the Bible says, the last days should have been within a few decades at most of Jesus' death.
     
  5. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    Sure. Science does not claim water was created but came from the oxygen and hydrogen in the Heaven/Air. Producing it in the middle of the first stars doesn't change that scientific Fact. Can you explain HOW ancient man knew that?

    You have confused Genesis 1:11 with Genesis 1:21. Gen 1:11 speaks of Adam's Earth and Gen 1:21 agrees with today's Science which recently confirmed that "every living creature that moves" came from Water as God told us. Can you tell us HOW ancient man knew and correctly wrote what Science discovered in 2016?

    Sure it does. God told Jesus to make living creatures out of the ground. This was necessary since they became the "common ancestors" of HIS kinds. Jesus did NOT create them but formed them temporarily from the air, dust, and water made in the beginning. EVERY creature was made from the original creation elements in Gen 1:1 and was temporary and subject to death. Jesus gave them fire or life.

    Amen. God told us more than 3k years ago that the Christians of the last days will have the "increased knowledge" to understand Genesis. It's HOW God is pouring out His Spirit of Truth upon ALL flesh, in the last days. Act 2:17 It's the only way you and others who believe the ToE, will learn God's Truth....through Science.

    I've told you many times that Today remains the 6th Day in God's 7 Day creation. All we have is today since tomorrow on the 7th Day, we will be in Heaven or elsewhere. Another thing which must happen on the present 6th Day is judgment.
     
  6. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +4,346
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    I dunno, maybe they saw water falling from the sky when it was raining and they concluded that water comes from the sky?

    So Gen 1:21 is NOT speaking of Adam's Earth?

    Sounds like you are picking and choosing what parts of the Bible to believe so you can keep the bits you like and ignore the bits you don't like! Hardly an honest way to gather any sort of information!

    What are you talking about? First you say that God commanded Jesus to make creatures out of the ground, but Jesus made them out of water and air and dust instead?

    Your arguments don't seem to make any sense according to science or the Bible.

    Once again, people have been claiming this sort of thing for ages. And generations of people have lived and died since this claim was first made.

    It ain't gonna happen, dude.

    Yeah, you aren't gonna convince me when there are lots of Christians out there who say the seventh day is over.

    http://www.icr.org/article/how-long-was-seventh-day/

    http://www.creationdefense.org/107.htm

    How do you expect me to take your claims seriously when even other Christians don't take your claims seriously?
     
  7. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    No. It's speaking of the time when God the Trinity commanded that "every living creature that moveth" come forth from WATER. Science agrees as the Last Universal common ancestor came from Water, on the present Earth. On Adam's Earth, Lord God made Adam from the dust of the ground. Gen 2:7 Also, Adam's firmament was made the 2nd Day Gen 1:8 and the present Cosmos was made the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4

    Not so since "His kinds" (kinds made by Jesus) are all temporary beings (common ancestors) subject to death. God the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) made the creatures from WATER eternally. God the Trinity ALWAYS creates eternally. Gen 1:26 Gen 5:1-2 and John 14:16 That's the difference between His (Jesus' temporary kinds) and Their (Trinity's eternal kinds).

    Sure, but NO one can show us a time in the past when Humans had dominion or rule over mosquitoes, viruses and Angels. 1Co 6:3 Neither can they show us a time in History when ALL animals were vegetarians Genesis 1:30 and Isaiah 11:7 including Lions and Bears. The reason they cannot tell you is because the end of the present 6th Day/Age is FUTURE to our time. That's God's Truth.
     
  8. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +4,346
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married


    Unfortunately, you have to ignore parts of the Bible to get this, don't you?

    Specifically, the parts that talk about animals coming from the LAND.

    That really sounds to me like a strained interpretation of the Bible. To me, it sounds like you've just decided that since God is a trinity, Jesus must have done some creating too, and you've invented a far fetched explanation for how that might have worked. Funny that you haven't tried to explain what creatures the Holy Spirit made as well, if they are creating as a trinity.

    I had dominion over mosquitoes when I smacked them whenever they tried to suck my blood. Also, it IS possible to wipe out mosquitoes. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-172757/Is-end-mosquito.html Not that I think it's a good idea, messes around with the balance of nature and all that, but don't say we can't.

    We also have antiviral drugs which we use to combat viral infections.

    I have no idea whatsoever why you'd think that Humans should have dominion over angels.

    1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    Do angels fit into any of those categories?
     
  9. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    Of course they do:

    Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?

    Did you notice that the verse speaks of the FUTURE? Humans shall have dominion or rule over Angels before God rests/ceases to create, at the end of the present 6th Day.
     
  10. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +4,346
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    I can quote Bible passages too.

    Psalm 8:4-5

    8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
    8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

    Angels do the bidding of God, not the bidding of humans.
     
  11. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    Sure you can but God tells us that atheists cannot understand them.

    Can you tell us the name of the person who has been made a little lower than the angels? I sincerely doubt it.
     
  12. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +4,346
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    Of course. Every club needs to tell its members that they are special. I understand.

    Then why don't you tell us?
     
  13. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    Kylie said:
    Psalm 8:4-5

    8:4 What is man, (Heb-Adam) that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, (Jesus) that thou visitest (punish) Him? 8:5 For thou hast made Him (Jesus) a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned Him with glory and honour.

    Thanks. Tell me if you have any problem understanding the verse. Amen?
     
  14. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +4,346
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    Of course, we are playing the pronoun game.

    He faced his enemy across the field of battle, and when he came close, he picked up his gun and shot him.

    Who was the one who was shot? The first person mentioned or the second? See how (not very) clear it is?

    And are you suggesting the Jesus was a little lower than angels? Are you also suggesting that Man was higher than angels, and thus higher than Jesus?
     
  15. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    No, but Jesus was made a little lower than Angels when He came to earth as a man. Adam/mankind is a little lower than Angels today, but Humans will judge them after Jesus returns at Armageddon. 1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?
     
  16. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +4,346
    Australia
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    Married
    And what will we judge them on? How nicely they danced on the heads of those pins?
     
  17. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    I don't know but what I know is that Humans are destined to have dominion over Angels according to Genesis 1:28, which is AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon.
     
  18. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +4,346
    Australia
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    Of course, that was supposed to happen two thousand years or so ago, wasn't it?

    Matthew 16:27-28

    16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
    16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    You will now, I'm sure, try to tell me why this isn't saying what it says.

    By the way, exactly where does it mention angels in that passage you quoted? It speaks of the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, and every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Into which category do angels fall? Are they fish, birds, or a living thing on Earth?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  19. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET BELIEVE IN MIRACLES Supporter

    +42,004
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    US-Republican
    If you have to ask this question, you might want to stick with pool.

    Which category do automobils fall? are they submarines, airplanes, or a driving thing on the Earth?
     
  20. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    You are speaking of man's time which is different from God's time. We live on the SAME 6th Day/Age that Jesus lived on Earth. Also, you must know that Christians do NOT die since to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. 2Co 5:8

    I bolded the portion of the verse which includes Angels since they moveth. Amen?
     
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