Evidence vs. Believe (A Tale of Two Bunnies)

[razeontherock]

Yeah, there are a good number of Creationists here. Raze, Jazer, AV1611VET, Doveaman, etc. There are a handful of Christians who accept evolution who post here, but sadly they don't post often enough.

You crack me up! You determine my education and beliefs for me? I think not! Assume assume assume ... whyizzit no atheist here knows better than to assume?

 

[Reine]

You crack me up! You determine my education and beliefs for me? I think not! Assume assume assume ... whyizzit no atheist here knows better than to assume?

Some of them do seem to be lumping us ... isn't what they accuse us of doing? ...and yes, this is a lumped question

 

[No Time]

Of course Gods stands up to scrutiny because Gods can not be pinned down, the Unicorn also stands up to scrutiny as does Allah, Zeus, Thor and every God that was ever devised.

I'll ask a few questions about God,
Where is God? everywhere.
What does God look like? No one knows what God looks like.
Then how do you know God is there? If you believe in God then you know.
Does God answer prayers? If you believe God answers prayers then God will answer prayers.

Questions bounce off deities because there's nothing there to hit and before you can believe in God you must first believe in God.
Before the Holy Spirit can come into your heart you must first believe that there is such a thing as the Holy Spirit,
if you don't believe in the Holy Spirit you will never be saved.

In other word before you can believe that I'm not telling you lies you must first believe that I'm not telling you lies,
if you believe that I'm telling you lies you will never believe me.
Those who think I am telling lies can leave now, the rest can stay and be saved.
Classic con man tactics from around the world perfected over many many years of fooling people both smart and dumb.

If you really want to know the answers to some of your questions, learn how to do Lucid Dreaming. Ask your questions to God and he will answer you.

There are no answer to those questions because the questions are about something that doesn't exist, [how big is a Unicorn?] but I'm sure if I was delusional I could get all the answers I wanted and I would be absolutely sure that all of the answers were true.

 

[Reine]

There are no answer to those questions because the questions are about something that doesn't exist, [how big is a Unicorn?] but I'm sure if I was delusional I could get all the answers I wanted and I would be absolutely sure that all of the answers were true.

I would imagine if you asked God how big a unicorn is he may either tell you they do not exist, or ask you to stop asking personal questions about his .... er, corn..

 

[Greg1234]

There are no answer to those questions because the questions are about something that doesn't exist, [how big is a Unicorn?] but I'm sure if I was delusional I could get all the answers I wanted and I would be absolutely sure that all of the answers were true.

Of course Gods stands up to scrutiny because Gods can not be pinned down,

In physical science. That's not a problem. The seismograph can't seem to pin down DNA.

the Unicorn also stands up to scrutiny

A unicorn is a physical entity.

as does Allah, Zeus, Thor and every God that was ever devised.

Redundancy.

I'll ask a few questions about God,

All these questions were already answered. We're not the one with the problem. Believe or not, it's you. That's just the beginning of the irony. You claim we have no evidence. You don't. Your kin has claimed for years that physical science was in the process of debunking God. The exact opposite happened. You claim God was invented by man. Materialism was invented by man to justify. You claim we don't understand. You don't. You claim God is primitive. Materialism is.

Where is God? everywhere.

There is God/supernatural/mataphysical and there is the material/physical/natural. What is matter?

What does God look like? No one knows what God looks like.

Define matter.

Then how do you know God is there? If you believe in God then you know.

What are the properties of matter?

Does God answer prayers? If you believe God answers prayers then God will answer prayers.

What are the capabilities of matter?

Questions bounce off deities because there's nothing there to hit

When do you stop hitting matter?

and before you can believe in God you must first believe in God.

Or else you wouldn't have called the phenomena God, just established another name for a transcendent omniscient force. This was already done by the ancients. Evidence can be gathered physically where you are at least competent to address with your tools.

Before the Holy Spirit can come into your heart you must first believe that there is such a thing as the Holy Spirit,

Before you believe in magnetic fields you must first believe in magnetic fields. Or else you wouldn't call it magnetic fields. The novel phenomena would be given another name. Naturally there are already references in ancient texts and the capabilities if matter.

if you don't believe in the Holy Spirit you will never be saved. In other word before you can believe that I'm not telling you lies you must first believe that I'm not telling you lies, if you believe that I'm telling you lies you will never believe me. Those who think I am telling lies can leave now, the rest can stay and be saved. Classic con man tactics from around the world perfected over many many years of fooling people both smart and dumb.

The only one conned here was you. Thinking that ignorance ruled the ancients, science is moving in reverse, an ill-suited definition of matter and still trying to convince creationists that they're not human in the presence of a Homo Sapiens Sapiens materialisticen God man.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

You crack me up! You determine my education and beliefs for me? I think not! Assume assume assume ... whyizzit no atheist here knows better than to assume?

Why don't you fill out this survey for me, then:

1. Do you accept that all life shares a common ancestor on this planet?
2. If not, what do you believe explains the diversity of life on this planet?

Once you answer those, you won't have to complain about me misrepresenting your beliefs anymore.

 

[razeontherock]

Why don't you fill out this survey for me, then:

1. Do you accept that all life shares a common ancestor on this planet?
2. If not, what do you believe explains the diversity of life on this planet?

Once you answer those, you won't have to complain about me misrepresenting your beliefs anymore.

Sorry I don't fit in your little boxes, but still, the 'common ancestry' schtick only points to G-d Amazing how self-professed brainiacs can't see such a simple thing.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Sorry I don't fit in your little boxes, but still, the 'common ancestry' schtick only points to G-d Amazing how self-professed brainiacs can't see such a simple thing.

I had a feeling you would dodge my questions. And I'm not a self-professed brainiac. (That's borderline flaming, by the way)

Care to have another go? It doesn't fit you in a box. A simple yes or no for the first question -- do you accept common ancestry?

If you say no, say what you think explains diversity other than common ancestry.

You are going to have people confused if you don't tell people what you believe. If you won't answer these questions, how do you expect me to know what you believe? You complain about people misrepresenting you. So set the record straight.

 

[razeontherock]

The self-professed brainiacs I refer to are those who falsely imagine themselves to be so smart based on seeing a relationship w/ all life, yet not considering that life came from G-d. I really have no "record to set straight, " as you put it; I wasn't there to watch our planet take shape any more than you. I'm not required to guess the details, and pretend I know.

Which does not mean that I abrogate to you my power to decide that I'm a ... how does it go again? Stick your head in the sand creationist.

I am allowed to look at evidence as it comes in, and reserve judgment.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

The self-professed brainiacs I refer to are those who falsely imagine themselves to be so smart based on seeing a relationship w/ all life, yet not considering that life came from G-d. I really have no "record to set straight, " as you put it; I wasn't there to watch our planet take shape any more than you. I'm not required to guess the details, and pretend I know.

Which does not mean that I abrogate to you my power to decide that I'm a ... how does it go again? Stick your head in the sand creationist.

I am allowed to look at evidence as it comes in, and reserve judgment.

Would someone have to have watched the past 3.5 billion years to be allowed to make any claims about common ancestry?

 

[razeontherock]

People make claims all the time. You're not that new here

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

People make claims all the time. You're not that new here

Is this how you inflate your post count? By evading questions?

I am asking you if you think it's possible to know something like common ancestry without observing it in real time and watching it all play out over billions of years.

 

[razeontherock]

Your are avoiding the Biblical common ancestry I have revealed.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Your are avoiding the Biblical common ancestry I have revealed.

If there was physical evidence that conclusively linked the Bible to the diversity of life on this planet, I'd be interested in seeing that.

 

[razeontherock]

Existence itself. Beyond that, it is you yourself that is the "link" between the realm of Spirit and the physical. I mean, this is the scope of things when we speak of life having come from G-d; HE is the common ancestor! Why would we not expect to find certain commonalities throughout? And what do they tell us of His essence?

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Existence itself. Beyond that, it is you yourself that is the "link" between the realm of Spirit and the physical. I mean, this is the scope of things when we speak of life having come from G-d; HE is the common ancestor! Why would we not expect to find certain commonalities throughout? And what do they tell us of His essence?

So in other words, you don't have any physical evidence. Existence does not necessitate a God.

 

[Jazer]

If there was physical evidence that conclusively linked the Bible to the diversity of life on this planet, I'd be interested in seeing that.

Many many many times I have posted the Y-DNA and Mt-DNA evidence that substantiates the Bible. Were you sleeping?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J2_(Y-DNA)

The Middle East DOES have their own bio diversity and the Bible does talk about the different plants and animals you find there. That is what was on the Noah's Arc, not the species from a different ecology system somewhere else.

 

[RickG]

Would someone have to have watched the past 3.5 billion years to be allowed to make any claims about common ancestry?

The fossil record does have many gaps, no paleontologist denies that. Nevertheless, it is still quite robust in demonstrating common ancestry.

One thing that puzzles me is that many Christians are willing to accept that the Genesis creation story is incorrect when it puts the stars being made after the Earth and land plants being created before marine life, yet not accept the idea that the creation of humans might not be literal as well. To me its a story about creation and the beginning of things through the eyes of people of that day. No scientific explanation need to be made in the bible nor some pseudoscientific explanation fabricated.

Perhaps the thing to ask ones' self is why is the fossil record and all the geologic data laid out in a sequence that so perfectly describes a 4.54 billion year old earth with life evolving over a period of more than 3 billion years. The record is there, it is not complete but there is enough there to see that the earth is not 6,000 years old and that evolution of all life is a fact.

 

[razeontherock]

Existence does not necessitate a God.

Again, mangling defintions.

 

[Reine]

To me its a story about creation and the beginning of things through the eyes of people of that day. No scientific explanation need to be made in the bible nor some pseudoscientific explanation fabricated.

This here is also exactly what I have always thought, and the fact that I don't really have any scientific experience indicates this is common sense?