Evidence for a Young Earth (Not Billions of Years Old)

EDM1

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1) Genesis tells us God created all animals (dinos included) and humans in the same week. God created an already mature creation with adult humans, mature fruit-bearing trees, and starlight already reaching earth to be appreciated by Adam even though the stars are located billions of light-years away.

2) Using the various Biblical genealogies and documented lifetimes, it appears the earth is about 6000 - 7000 years old.

3) There is no error-free way to date the age of ancient items such as rocks, etc.. Various radiometric dating methods ALWAYS include multiple NON-provable steady-state assumptions in the calculations. This is why volcanic debris has been dated as millions of years old when it actually formed on a known date of an eruption - and submitted to the lab by the witness of the eruption to PROVE the erroneous nature of the calculations.

Secularists tend to look at radiometric dating ASSUMING there was no decayed material (Lead/Pb) at the beginning. However, the Bible seems to imply there was decayed material to begin with in that the world was made fully mature and functional. This is a huge difference in viewpoint!

This would mean the earth immediately after the initial creation would have some radioactive material and some decayed lead already existing in the ground.

Part of radiometric dating comes from accurately measuring the ratio of parent to daughter material to determine how much parent material has decayed. But this ratio is unknowable since we weren't there at initial creation to know the initial parent/daughter ratio.

Furthermore, due to underground water erosion, etc. we don't know if the initial ratio has been modified due to those erosion forces on that sample. Did a piece of parent or daughter material break off some time ago or was there absolutely no erosion whatsoever?

4) The same erroneous steady-state type assumptions to date stalactites have us believe they can be over 100,000 years old when we see them hanging from cave ceilings. However, stalactites over 7 feet long have grown under the Lincoln Memorial which was built in 1922.

5) Comets have a life span of up to 30 thousand years (max) by getting smaller as they lose mass in their 'tail' as they travel thru space. This contradicts the idea that comets started life along with the rest of the universe 14 billion years ago. So noticing the error, atheist scientists now claim new comets fly out of the Oort cloud. However, nobody has ever observed a comet originate in the Oort cloud, nor from any other area of the universe for that matter. No scientist has ever seen a new comet form anywhere.

6) The 12th Century Prohm Temple in Cambodia has a Stegosaurus carved into the pillar. Did they do this because they saw one? The other animals carved into the pillar are modern animals so there is no reason to believe they didn't see the Stegosaurus. Skeptics say the head in the carving is too big to be a Stegosaurus. You be the judge:


7) There are various dino / human mud-footprint overlaps - are they genuine or hoaxes? Here are a few:
See Creationist site: genesispark.com

Delk Print:

Feminine Print:

8) There are numerous modern man made objects which have been found encased in rock, thus proving rocks cannot be millions of years old: hammer with wooden handle, screw, spark plug, electrical plug, vase, etc.

9) The Nampa Figurine: In 1889 a clay doll was brought up by a well drill from a depth of 320 feet. The figurine was found under several different strata including fifteen feet of lava basalt. According to standard evolutionary thinking, the stratum at this depth is about 2 million years old.


10) Preserved T-Rex soft tissue bone marrow was discovered when a T-Rex bone was accidentally dropped and broken open. The dark soft tissue material was scooped out and re-hydrated using a mild acid solution to plump it up. When put under a microscope, much to the surprise of evolutionist researchers, they saw FLEXIBLE blood vessels and Red Blood Cells! Here are some article and quotes:

"Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels containing small round microstructures that can be expressed from the vessels into solution. Some regions of demineralized bone matrix are highly fibrous, and the matrix possesses elasticity and resilience. Thus, some dinosaurian soft tissues may retain some of their original flexibility, elasticity, and resilience." (2005, 307:1952).

“There is still so much about ancient soft tissues that we do not understand. Why are these materials preserved when all our models say they should be degraded?” Mary H. Schweitzer, “Blood from Stone,” Scientific American, Vol. 303, December 2010, p. 69.

When Schweitzer reported her discovery to Horner, he replied, “Mary, the freaking creationists are just going to love you.” Schweitzer replied, “Jack, its your dinosaur.” [See Jack Horner and James Gorman, How to Build a Dinosaur (New York: Penguin Group, 2009), pp. 80–81.

“‘I am quite aware that according to conventional wisdom and models of fossilization, these structures aren’t supposed to be there, but there they are,’ said Schweitzer, lead author of the paper. ‘I was pretty shocked.’” Evelyn Boswell, “Montana T. Rex Yields Next Big Discovery in Dinosaur Paleontology,” Montana State University News Service, 24 March 2005, p. 1.

“Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels...” Mary H. Schweitzer et al., “Soft-Tissue Vessels and Cellular Preservation in Tyrannosaurus Rex,” Science, Vol. 307, 25 March 2005, p. 1952.

“‘I got goose bumps,’ recalls [Mary] Schweitzer. ‘It was exactly like looking at a slice of modern bone. But, of course, I couldn’t believe it. I said to the lab technician: The bones, after all, are 65 million years old. How could blood cells survive that long?’” Virginia Morell, Dino DNA: The Hunt and the Hype,” Science, Vol. 261, 9 July 1993, p. 160.

11) In addition, there have been numerous similar findings since then:

Researchers have found a reason for the puzzling survival of soft tissue and collagen in dinosaur bones - the bones are younger than anyone ever guessed. Carbon-14 (C-14) dating of multiple samples of bone from 8 dinosaurs from Texas, Alaska, Colorado, and Montana revealed that they are only 22,000 to 39,000 years old. Since dinosaurs are thought to be over 65 million years old, the news is stunning. The researchers presented their findings at the 2012 Western Pacific Geophysics Meeting in Singapore, August 13-17, a conference of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) and the Asia Oceania Geosciences Society (AOGS).

12) Debunking Skeptics: Skeptics have tried to debunk the preserved dino tissue by saying that iron acted as a preservative. However, iron is always found in blood and bone marrow and has never been shown to preserve blood. Just try to bury a cow, dig it up 10 years later and see how flexible the blood vessels are, right? There will be NO MORE COW after 10 years.

Wishing evidence will go away is not debunking it. Google it - tons of articles today on preserved dino soft tissue. Preserved flexible blood vessels and blood cells out of a T-rex bone will not simply go away just because ATHEISTS wish it would go away.

They have pictures of microscope shots SHOWING the vessels and red blood cells. It is definitely PRESERVED SOFT TISSUE AND BLOOD CELLS from a T-Rex. Thoroughly genuine find, not to mention other similar finds from a Hadrosaur. Too many secular sources on the net to deny its reality at this point. Pathetic to even try. Nothing is 'debunked' from an unwillingness to see the evidence. You cannot wish it to go away - the proof is staring at you.

Thank You Lord for showing us Your Word is true, and may You work in the hearts and minds of those in rebellion, that some may be saved, in Jesus Name!
 
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SkyWriting

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1) Genesis tells us God created all animals (dinos included) and humans in the same week. God created an already mature creation with adult humans, mature fruit-bearing trees, and starlight already reaching earth to be appreciated by Adam even though the stars are located billions of light-years away.
2) Using the various Biblical genealogies and documented lifetimes, it appears the earth is about 6000 - 7000 years old.

Can we check for a literal commentary from scripture on the age of the earth?

Habakkuk 3:6
He stood and measured the earth; He looked and startled the nations; the ancient mountains were scattered; the perpetual hills bowed. His ways are everlasting.

Genesis 49:26
The blessings of your father have surpassed the blessings of the ancient mountains and the bounty of the everlasting hills. May they rest on the head of Joseph, on the brow of the prince of his brothers.

Deuteronomy 33:15
with
the finest fruits from the oldest mountains, the best from the ancient hills

Psalm 76:4
... You are more majestic than the ancient mountains. ...

 
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Jonaitis

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I'm not sure if you have heard of the 17th century bishop, James Ussher, but he spent diligent work in trying to figure out the age of the earth using the Scriptures (primarily), with the investigation and collaboration of all the historical records available to him at the time to produce the date October 23, 4004 BC for when creation began. Now, that sounds pretty extreme, and some may be skeptical about how he arrived on such conclusions, but any serious historian and scholar will find his work top notch. It is feat that many secular scholars only attempted at. The book that he compiled these dates, and even historical events in between, which is large in volume, is called "Annals of the World." I believe there is a free PDF online if you are curious.
 
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Sabertooth

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..., mature fruit-bearing trees,...
I am a variation of YEC, but that point is unfounded.

DAY 6 FROM AN EARTHLY POINT-OF-VIEW
"This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." Genesis 2:4-7
 
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SkyWriting

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I'm not sure if you have heard of the 17th century bishop, James Ussher, but he spent diligent work in trying to figure out the age of the earth using the Scriptures (primarily), with the investigation and collaboration of all the historical records available to him at the time to produce the date October 23, 4004 BC for when creation began. Now, that sounds pretty extreme, and some may be skeptical about how he arrived on such conclusions, but any serious historian and scholar will find his work top notch. It is feat that many secular scholars only attempted at. The book that he compiled these dates, and even historical events in between, which is large in volume, is called "Annals of the World." I believe there is a free PDF online if you are curious.

So would we say this Catholic bishop did support a literal reading is scripture?
Or he did not. Which translation did he prefer?


English Standard Version
with the finest produce of the ancient mountains and the abundance of the everlasting hills,

Berean Study Bible
with the best of the ancient mountains and the bounty of the everlasting hills,

New American Standard Bible
"And with the best things of the ancient mountains, And with the choice things of the everlasting hills,

King James Bible
And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,

USCCB > Catholic Bible
15
With the finest gifts of the ancient mountains
and the best from the everlasting hills;
 
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SkyWriting

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I am a variation of YEC, but that point is unfounded.

Fruit trees usually take a 2-3 years before they fruit well enough to harvest.
So if you were visiting with Adam and Eve in paradise, you'd have to determine the trees are 1 day old, or they are fully mature. And if you examine Eve, you have to ask if she is old enough to bear children, or is one day old. The differences are startling. Especially if you have an interest in sex.
 
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SkyWriting

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I am a variation of YEC, but that point is unfounded.

DAY 6 FROM AN EARTHLY POINT-OF-VIEW
"This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." Genesis 2:4-7

Scientifically speaking, by looking around the Garden of Eden, how old are Adam and Eve and the fruiting trees in the Garden, from a observational point of view?
 
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SkyWriting

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As Bishop Ussher died in 1656 it is very unlikely he used any of the above except the King James Authorised Translation. He probably used earlier English translations and Greek and Latin versions as well.

Very good.

Latin
15 de vertice antiquorum montium, de pomis collium æternorum :

With the finest gifts of the ancient mountains
and the best from the everlasting hills;
 
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Jonaitis

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So would we say this...bishop did support a literal reading is scripture? Or he did not. Which translation did he prefer?

Yes. Even I did it myself only so far and found his work very good.

He thought it best to use the actual Masoretic text over the Septuigint translation, because he believed the Hebrew text available today was the most accurate.

If one works the chronogeneaologies right, they will end up with 4000 years between Adam and Christ, and around 2000 years between Abraham and Christ (as long as Israel has been a nation).
 
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Scientifically speaking, by looking around the Garden of Eden, how old are Adam and Eve and the fruiting trees in the Garden, from a observational point of view?
I'm not contesting human sexual maturity, just that of plants on the day of Adam's creation.
  1. There is no constraint that says plant maturity was as slow as it currently is.
  2. Eve ate of the KOGE tree sometime AFTER Day 6.
  3. (Evidence suggests that Man fell before Eve's first ovulation.)
 
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SkyWriting

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I'm not contesting human sexual maturity, just that of plants on the day of Adam's creation.
  1. There is no constraint that says plant maturity was as slow as it currently is.
  2. Eve ate of the KOGE tree sometime AFTER Day 6.
  3. (Evidence suggests that Man fell before Eve's first ovulation.)
Scientifically speaking, by looking around the Garden of Eden, how old are the hills, mountains, rivers, trees, dirt, and the fruiting trees in the Garden, from a observational point of view?

Do you know what plant sustaining soil is composed of?
The mineral portion of the soil is formed from bedrock that has been weathered into smaller particles –sand, silt, clay, and what we call all these, dust.

Rich garden soil is approximately 45 percent rocks and minerals, 5 percent organic matter and 25 percent each water and air. All soils have some mixture of the five basic components, and most soils may be amended to improve that composition so it will be more suitable for plant life.

Organic and Biological Materials
Decayed plants and animals provide the organic materials found in soil. Through decomposition, organic materials are broken down and turned into nutrients that plants can use. Mineralization also occurs through decomposition, and through this process organic materials become inorganic. The fifth element of soil, the biological world, provides these important organic elements that are so essential. Plants and animals, when they die, become part of the ground once more -- and so the cycle continues. Soil gives life; life gives itself back to the soil.

So if you are examining the soil for the plants to live in the Garden East of Eden.....what age is the soil you observe? 3 days or 3 years? From your scientific stand?
 
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SkyWriting

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Yes. Even I did it myself only so far and found his work very good.

He thought it best to use the actual Masoretic text over the Septuigint translation, because he believed the Hebrew text available today was the most accurate.

If one works the chronogeneaologies right, they will end up with 4000 years between Adam and Christ, and around 2000 years between Abraham and Christ (as long as Israel has been a nation).
So that was after your examination of scripture here?

Habakkuk 3:6
He stood and measured the earth; He looked and startled the nations; the ancient mountains were scattered; the perpetual hills bowed. His ways are everlasting.

Genesis 49:26
The blessings of your father have surpassed the blessings of the ancient mountains and the bounty of the everlasting hills. May they rest on the head of Joseph, on the brow of the prince of his brothers.

Deuteronomy 33:15
with
the finest fruits from the oldest mountains, the best from the ancient hills

Psalm 76:4
... You are more majestic than the ancient mountains. ...
 
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Jonaitis

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So that was after your examination of scripture here?

Habakkuk 3:6
He stood and measured the earth; He looked and startled the nations; the ancient mountains were scattered; the perpetual hills bowed. His ways are everlasting.

Genesis 49:26
The blessings of your father have surpassed the blessings of the ancient mountains and the bounty of the everlasting hills. May they rest on the head of Joseph, on the brow of the prince of his brothers.

Deuteronomy 33:15
with
the finest fruits from the oldest mountains, the best from the ancient hills

Psalm 76:4
... You are more majestic than the ancient mountains. ...

So...

You're saying these passage contradict Genesis 1? Frankly, that's what I am seeing here with your interpretation. Habakkuk 3:6 and Genesis 49:26, if taken literally to every point, would suggest that there was never a beginning to the hills since they are everlasting. But, in Genesis 1 we read that the hills did have a beginning.
 
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miamited

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Hi skywriting,

Just thought I'd stop by here and add some more young earth support for our new member edm1. You started with a quote of Habakkuk, but I'd like to start in order of the writings.
You responded to his post:
Genesis 49:26
The blessings of your father have surpassed the blessings of the ancient mountains and the bounty of the everlasting hills. May they rest on the head of Joseph, on the brow of the prince of his brothers.

If I created a car last week and it was designed to last for ever, you do understand that such a vehicle could rightfully be called 'everlasting'. It doesn't say 'eternal' Everlasting merely means that once something is created or made it cannot ever be destroyed. So, the writer of Genesis would be correct in referring to the everlastin hills even though they did have a 'made on date'. Actually, using your logic, the hills would have always been there for all time before, not just billions or millions of years, but if we define everlasting as eternal, then those hills always existed. I think that pretty much even any worldly scientist would tell you that that isn't the case. The hills were created, we're just disagreeing as to 'when' they were created.

Then you quoted Deuteronomy:
Deuteronomy 33:15
with
the finest fruits from the oldest mountains, the best from the ancient hills

Deuteronomy was written some 2,000 years after the creation event and the hills would have been ancient. Ancient merely refers to something being very old. It also doesn't mean eternal. So, both ancient and everlasting do not deny the age of the earth as simply understood in the Scriptures. The title, "The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner' doesn't mean that the guy preceded Noah or Adam. He was just a very old mariner who lived in a much different time. We often refer to the Egyptians as being an ancient civilization. That is not to be construed as their being eternal civilizations, but merely very old.

Again:
Psalm 76:4
... You are more majestic than the ancient mountains. ...

Same reasoning for the use of the word ancient mountains. Again, the Psalms are even newer to us than Deuteronomy. So if the hills and mountains were considered 'ancient' in the days that Deuteronomy was written, then they were surely also ancient in the days that the Psalms were written. Ancient never identifies any specific dating, but merely references something as being very old. Today, we even refer to the cities of Jerusalem in the days of Jesus as being 'ancient'. Why? Because it was about 2,000 years ago and to us, that's ancient.

Finally, Habakkuk:
Habakkuk 3:6
He stood and measured the earth; He looked and startled the nations; the ancient mountains were scattered; the perpetual hills bowed. His ways are everlasting.

Ancient has already been explained and if you look up perpetual is the same as never ending. In fact, never ending, unending and endless are all just definitions for 'perpetual'.

So, I would just caution you in reading into something more than it actually says. The Scriptures actually caution us against such a practice. Going beyond what is written. Be careful.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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miamited

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Hi sabertooth,

Question? You wrote:
(Evidence suggests that Man fell before Eve's first ovulation.)

I'd be interested in seeing that evidence. I was honestly never aware that there was any 'evidence' that man feel before Eve's first ovulation. Not saying that it may or may not be so, just haven't been made familiar with the evidence on the subject.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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SkyWriting

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Hi skywriting,

Just thought I'd stop by here and add some more young earth support for our new member edm1. You started with a quote of Habakkuk, but I'd like to start in order of the writings.
You responded to his post:


If I created a car last week and it was designed to last for ever, you do understand that such a vehicle could rightfully be called 'everlasting'. It doesn't say 'eternal' Everlasting merely means that once something is created or made it cannot ever be destroyed. So, the writer of Genesis would be correct in referring to the everlastin hills even though they did have a 'made on date'. Actually, using your logic, the hills would have always been there for all time before, not just billions or millions of years, but if we define everlasting as eternal, then those hills always existed. I think that pretty much even any worldly scientist would tell you that that isn't the case. The hills were created, we're just disagreeing as to 'when' they were created.

Then you quoted Deuteronomy:


Deuteronomy was written some 2,000 years after the creation event and the hills would have been ancient. Ancient merely refers to something being very old. It also doesn't mean eternal. So, both ancient and everlasting do not deny the age of the earth as simply understood in the Scriptures. The title, "The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner' doesn't mean that the guy preceded Noah or Adam. He was just a very old mariner who lived in a much different time. We often refer to the Egyptians as being an ancient civilization. That is not to be construed as their being eternal civilizations, but merely very old.

Again:


Same reasoning for the use of the word ancient mountains. Again, the Psalms are even newer to us than Deuteronomy. So if the hills and mountains were considered 'ancient' in the days that Deuteronomy was written, then they were surely also ancient in the days that the Psalms were written. Ancient never identifies any specific dating, but merely references something as being very old. Today, we even refer to the cities of Jerusalem in the days of Jesus as being 'ancient'. Why? Because it was about 2,000 years ago and to us, that's ancient.

Finally, Habakkuk:


Ancient has already been explained and if you look up perpetual is the same as never ending. In fact, never ending, unending and endless are all just definitions for 'perpetual'.

So, I would just caution you in reading into something more than it actually says. The Scriptures actually caution us against such a practice. Going beyond what is written. Be careful.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

I agree. No one in scripture ever used the genealogies to create a specific creation date for the beginning of the world. Such a date would be highly prized and even likely celebrated or "worshiped". So going with tradition, using the genealogies to date Creation are a false dog barking up an imaginary tree. We all know how the scribes of the past enjoyed counting things. Both male and female scribes. But everyone overlooked the dating of Creation?

Not to mention, every official estimation of the Creation date has reached a different conclusion. None of this sounds like the a message from God. Starting with cobbling together a genga style pile of estimated dates,
- plus no tradition of anyone having done so in scripture,
- plus the varied results when it has been done using all the abacuses one can find.

Additionally, every important aspect of Christianity is covered by multiple authors in different ways so that God's clear message is ensured.

Dating the creation dating by Ussher in 1600 years after the scriptures are written fails on all these accounts. Additionally, the plain and simple reading is that the earth is not only "ancient" but it is ancient to the point of being called "Perpetual".
 
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SkyWriting

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Just thought I'd stop by here and add some more young earth support...

But lets assume that the genealogies were a legitimate procedure for dating the earth that all the old testament and new testament writers overlooked or didn't consider important until Bishop Ussher in the 1600's.

Lets examine Genesis using the same methods (Uh...Oh)

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

And lets examine the language used to create the earth.
choose, create creator, cut down, dispatch, do, make fat

A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes) -- choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

Seems like a slow process to me. I was honestly and earnestly looking for a sudden rush of wind or flash or something like that.
 
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SkyWriting

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If I created a car last week and it was designed to last for ever, you do understand that such a vehicle could rightfully be called 'everlasting'. It doesn't say 'eternal' Everlasting merely means that once something is created or made it cannot ever be destroyed.

So let's check the language used then:

ages (1), all successive (1), always (1), ancient (13), ancient times (3), continual (1), days of old (1), eternal (2), eternity (3), ever (10), Everlasting (2), everlasting (110), forever (136), forever and ever (1), forever* (70), forevermore* (1), lasting (1), long (2), long ago (3), long past (1), long time (3), never* (17), old (11), permanent (10), permanently (1), perpetual (29), perpetually (1).

I used to be a YE Creationist. I felt that was what God wanted.
I specifically went looking for the idea of "Sudden Creation out of nothing"
I found this language didn't support the idea.
 
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