Everything up to the cross of Christ was works based

[JohnD70X7]

But after the cross of Christ, faith based and faith alone.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (NASB95)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

But after the cross of Christ, faith based and faith alone.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (NASB95)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Um no...Abraham...
What does it mean...saved by grace?
Sin is the transgression of the law. The wages of sin is death. If you do not sin, why do you need grace? You need grace because you DO sin and transgress the law of God.

 

[Guojing]

But after the cross of Christ, faith based and faith alone.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (NASB95)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

During the Great Tribulation, in the age to come, do you think that is still true?

 

[JohnD70X7]

During the Great Tribulation, in the age to come, do you think that is still true?

I do.

 

[JohnD70X7]

Um no...Abraham...
What does it mean...saved by grace?
Sin is the transgression of the law. The wages of sin is death. If you do not sin, why do you need grace? You need grace because you DO sin and transgress the law of God.

The Law still stands to reveal what sin is. And to condemn those who reject / do not believe Messiah.

This is not what I was pointing out. That everything after the cross is faith based.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The Law still stands to reveal what sin is. And to condemn those who reject / do not believe Messiah.

This is not what I was pointing out. That everything after the cross is faith based.

It has always been faith based...otherwise what was the purpose?

 

[HARK!]

The Law still stands to reveal what sin is. And to condemn those who reject / do not believe Messiah.

This is what Messiah says:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

(CLV) Jn 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he writes concerning Me.

As Messiah speaks of Moses; he's speaking of Torah.

(CLV) Jn 8:56
Abraham, your father, exults that he may become acquainted with My day, and he was acquainted with it and rejoiced."

Abraham believed in Messiah.

 

[HARK!]

faith alone

I have searched the Bible cover to cover; and nowhere can I find the expression "faith alone."

 

[Soyeong]

But after the cross of Christ, faith based and faith alone.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (NASB95)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

In Habakkuk 2:4, the righteous shall live by faith, and in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, so living by faith has never referred to a manner of living that is not in obedience to God's law, which means that everything before the cross was faith based. In Ephesians 2:10, we have been made new creations in Christ in order to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation by doing good works, choosing to do good works through faith is nevertheless still an integral part of our salvation. In Titus 2:14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so being saved by grace do involve being trained to do good works through faith.

 

[Guojing]

I do.

So if I put my faith in Christ in year 1 of the tribulation, but decided to take the mark of the beast in year 6, was I saved at anytime during those years?

 

[disciple Clint]

But after the cross of Christ, faith based and faith alone.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (NASB95)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Moses offers a full answer to this vital question in his account of the life of Abraham, who is justly called the father of our faith. In Genesis 15:6 we are told that Abraham “believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.” The apostle James cites this verse and claims that because of his faith Abraham became the “friend of God” (James 2:23). The apostle Paul likewise appeals to this verse to establish the fact that Abraham’s pattern of justifying faith is normative for all that are righteous before God (Rom. 4:22–25), that it is not by works of the Law, rather by “hearing with faith” that we are justified (Gal. 3:5–6). The Justifying Faith of Abraham

 

[disciple Clint]

I have searched the Bible cover to cover; and nowhere can I find the expression "faith alone."

look here Martin Luther's 1534 bible. Luther was famous for making that change.

 

[paul1149]

The OT is permeated with faith and grace, despite the shadow of the Law over much of it. The grace was given in anticipation of the cross of Christ.

Everything after the cross should be of faith and grace, but unfortunately there is a lot of falling back into legalism, just as even during NT times.

 

[bcbsr]

But after the cross of Christ, faith based and faith alone.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (NASB95)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Are you speaking historically or individually? That is, are you saying that prior to the historical event of Christ dying on the cross people were saved by works? Or are you saying that prior to coming to faith in Christ a person's only alternative regarding salvation is to be saved by works. I could understand the latter as it fits in the progressive scheme Paul talks about in Romans, and also in Gal 3:23-25 "But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."

But if the former I would have to disagree as in Romans 4 Paul gives the examples of Abraham and David who were justified by faith and yet lived prior to the historic event of the cross.

 

[JMV]

But after the cross of Christ, faith based and faith alone.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (NASB95)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Thus says the Lord YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH:

"Hear and understand: Salvation can in no wise depart from you, once received. Therefore, seek to please The Father AND keep The Law.
For how can one who walks in Me by grace also walk in that which had condemned them? Shall My people reach toward Heaven with their hands, while their feet continue to tread the wide path which leads to destruction? And how shall one who loves Me take My hand and walk beside Me, with one foot on the good ground and the other in the grave?
Therefore knowledge must increase, and sin decrease, to enter The Kingdom of Heaven. For one who is under grace bears fruit of the same; and The One who kept The Law of The Father revealed that grace by works.


So then, Grace is first and everlasting...

Then comes works,
The first works done in faith,
Even the first fruits bore in your lives...

Which is to love The Father and one another,
By keeping The Law...

Says The Lord."

 

[JohnD70X7]

"...says the Lord."

Scripture please?

1 Corinthians 13:9–10 (AV)
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

We have the perfect Word of God already, and ex cathedra pronouncements ostensibly coming from the Lord, while not impossible, is extremely unlikely.

P.S. I also find it interesting you use the term [lord] rather than Yahuah etc (which is a debatable interpretation of YHVH anyway).

 

[JohnD70X7]

Belief in Y'shua Jesus IS keeping the Law of Moses / Law of God in and of itself (Galatians 3:24-25).

He fulfilled the Law he gave to Moses (Matthew 5:17).

No one else has (Isaiah 64:6 / Romans 3:23).

No one else could (1 Corinthians 15:50).

 

[Danthemailman]

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

 

[JMV]

"...says the Lord."

Scripture please?

1 Corinthians 13:9–10 (AV)
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

We have the perfect Word of God already, and ex cathedra pronouncements ostensibly coming from the Lord, while not impossible, is extremely unlikely.

P.S. I also find it interesting you use the term [lord] rather than Yahuah etc (which is a debatable interpretation of YHVH anyway).

Scriptures are attached, also with 1 John 4:1 declared long ago, read and discern if you indeed have His Spirit..

11/3/09 From The Lord, Our God and Savior
The Word of The Lord Spoken to Timothy
For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear

"Behold, My words shall never pass away, for as I am so also is My Word. For it proceeds from Me, being manifest by He Who Is True, also being called The Word... Living... Always feeding His flock the Word which is written for their nourishment, which is to be received through that part of Himself which is also in Me, The Spirit called Holy, which speaks to the truth of who I am, glorifying Him who I sent to you who bears My name and reveals My glory in Himself, even as I am glorified through Him, His glory being the same I own. For We are One from the beginning, yet manifest as two in the earth, so those whom I have chosen may know Me and come to Me and receive life. For I am The Lord, and I do not change."

"Yet that which I speak at present must be put first. Thus that which is contained in the Volumes of Truth is foremost, and must be brought to the forefront for all to behold. Not that this Word is at all superior; neither shall it be considered inferior to My Word found in the Scriptures of Truth. For My Word is My Word; all I speak is Scripture and Truth. And that which I speak in the hearing of My prophets is written and put forth for the generation in which it is to be received, foremost, whether they will hear or whether they will forbear.
And as it was in all times past, when I spoke by My servants, the prophets, and they in turn both wrote and spoke My words aloud, saying, “Thus says The Lord,” so it is at this time also, even during the end of this age which is upon you.
Again, I say to you, that which proceeds from My mouth at present is foremost, and shall not be put second to My Word spoken aforetime. Neither is one a foundation for the other, as though the Word proceeding from My own mouth is in need of anything to uphold it; nor is any other witness required to prove My Word as My own, when I Myself have spoken it... MY WORD STANDS! Therefore, let My present Word be shown to be in full agreement with My former Word. For it is indeed in perfect agreement with My Word as it was, yet runs straight in comparison with that which men have made crooked.

Here is wisdom few have considered, nor have they understood: If one who confesses Me lacks discernment, on account of ears which remain dull of hearing and eyes which remain dim in seeing, let them test My Word by My Word only. For any who test outside My Word, according to the words or doctrines of men, shall fail and be found in contempt before The Lord. For I alone sit as judge. Indeed, they have failed to see that My Word in the Volumes of Truth, also being called the Letters, is the rod by which the translations of men are to be tested, a light which shines upon the doctrines of men to expose them, revealing them to be blasphemies and heresies before God, all of which shall burn up in the Day, when the fire comes to test the quality of each man’s work.


Therefore, if one professing faith be wise,
He shall humble himself before Me,
Calling upon the name of The Holy One
For knowledge, in where all understanding
Flows to the truly contrite and penitent,
Flowing in pure testimony, free from corruption...

And by this only shall one be wise in the reading,
Comparing that which was given with that
Which is put forth once again, discerning
The Source and The Author to be the same...

One Word, One Book,
One on-going Testament to My glory;
By no means shall it be divided into three!...

Says The Lord."

Since you quoted ephesians 2, read verse 10 and understand...

"What is faith without works?

Nothing, a lie spoken in vain.

And what of works without faith?

Vanity, a false good covering a heart
Which has turned from The Truth...

Says The Lord."

Sin must decrease, strive to make your repentance full by sincerely wishing to keep the Law. With pure faith, having no other gods beside Him. Do you agree with this? Heed this warning and do not be offended by His rebuke for we all have fallen...

"Yes even you, O churches of men, have corrupted the Word of Truth, and do not cease from polluting My name! You misuse My name and abuse My Word, subverting the people through false doctrine and filthy tradition! You encourage them to forsake My Commandments and ignore My every decree! In the name of The Holy One, you cause My people to sin! By permission, UNDER GRACE, you encourage them to transgress The Commandments of God, teaching and preaching to them another messiah, adding to and taking away from My Word to uphold your own way, and all for the sake of unjust gain! Shall I not discipline you for these things?! Shall I not bring down My hand hard upon you?! Shall I not come forth swiftly and wipe ALL religions from the face of the earth?!"