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Featured Everything I see convinces me Emmanuel Macron is the antichrist

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by IfThePuzzleFits, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. Zoii

    Zoii Well-Known Member

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    I really like him. I think he will serve his country and Europe well.
     
  2. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    I watched up to the 29:25 Mark in the video.. These statement in text of the video makes absolutly no sence..

    The video was declaring that the USA was the Harlot of Babylon and the text at the 29:25 mark stated..

    ""The nations became drunk with Americas cultural influence and the merchants became rich exporting goods into America. America has a political culture of self righteousness when dealing with other countries. God will remove his protection from Satan ( and the Anti-Christ ) when the sum of her sins stack high enough towards the heavens""

    The above statement makes no sense.. If the USA is the harlot of Babylon then it is not satan and is not the Anti- Christ.. The nations lead by the Anti-christ the 10 horned beast empire will turn against the harlot of Babylon and burn her with fire.. So the Anti-christ is going to destroy the harlot.. The anti-christ is not going to commit suicide.. The quoted statement is totally insane..

    The USA cannot be The Harlot of Babylon, And Satan, And the Anti-christ all at the same time.. Babylon is destroyed earlier but the Anti-christ continues on right up to the time of the return of the Messiah Jesus and will be heading the Army of the Beast on the plains of Meggedo in what is called the battle of Armageddon when the returning Jesus will wipe the army of the beast out..
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    antichrist in spirit - attitude.
    Not possible because being the false Jewish Messiah is being the Antichrist.
    What I have been told repeatedly by Jews themselves at their countermissionary sites is that what is in the New Testament has no relevancy in Judaism. The Antichrist is going to voice what Judaism thinks about Jesus - that if he even existed, he was a failed messiah at best, a deceiver at worst, and that the entire new testament is a fabrication by unknown persons. I hate that sentiment the Jews have, but I am just reporting.

    There will be nothing good or conciliatory toward Christianity coming from the Antichrist - except that Christians have been deceived. The great falling away will begin. But we are not in darkness as some, who will fall for the Antichrist's spiel.
     
  4. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Regarding the 1st seal's horseman, on the white horse (Revelation 6:1-2), that could instead represent the Gospel of Jesus Christ (not Jesus physically: Acts 3:21) going forth to all nations and victoriously saving souls. For Jesus is the rider on the white horse seen later in Revelation 19:11,13 (cf. John 1:1,14), and His Gospel will be preached to all nations during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:14, Revelation 14:6). The bow (Revelation 6:2) is a weapon which is able to affect things far away, just as the Gospel is able to affect things far away from where it began (Luke 24:47).

    The last 3 of the 4 horsemen (Revelation 6:4-8) represent a horrible future war which will begin the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons.

    And the Antichrist could first appear on the world stage after this war.

    One way this war could happen is the U.S. could undertake a massive buildup of the Iraqi Army, initially to bring about the total (and lasting) defeat of the Islamic State militant group (also known as ISIS, ISIL or Daesh) in Iraq and eastern and southern Syria, and eventually so the Iraqi Army can serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, to end Iran's nuclear weapons program, ballistic missile program, terrorist-group support operations, and its extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall much of the former Iraqi Baathist military hierarchy (which existed under Baathist Saddam Hussein) to run the present Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly.

    And if the current, Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any return of a Baathist-dominated military (which cruelly suppressed the Iraqi Shiites under Saddam Hussein), or balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, this could lead Western intelligence agencies to bring about a Baathist coup d'etat in Iraq. For they could see a well-run, Baathist Iraqi Army and government as the only way to permanently defeat Islamic State, and the only way to eventually invade and defeat Iran, which invasion the Iraqi Baathists could agree to perform. For they see meddling, non-Arab Iran as a great enemy of Arab autonomy.

    Indeed, the current military brains of the Islamic State are former Iraqi Baathist generals who can't stand the Iraqi government is so heavily influenced by Iran. They see (Sunni Arab) Islamic State as the only current, viable bulwark against the Iranians and Shiite Arabs taking control of all of Iraq and Syria. But if there are secret, Western overtures toward these generals, they could very well agree to defect from serving Islamic State to serving a non-sectarian Iraqi Army drawn mainly (not exclusively) from Sunni Arab and Kurdish militias in western and northern Iraq, which with secret Western assistance could then march on Baghdad and completely overthrow the current Iraqi government, which is very weak and corrupt.

    Once the Iraqi Baathists take back control of the Iraqi government and military, they could then completely and permanently defeat ISIS and all Iranian-supported Shiite militias in Iraq and eastern and southern Syria. Then, to help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of a subsequent, all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran, "false flag" operations could be managed by Western intelligence agencies by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and their little children terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi Arab masses will become enraged and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians". And the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

    But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false "Messiah": cf. Matthew 24:24) could destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to clear the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran, and instead (pretending they're doing so in the name of Islam) turn and send their vast army against the small territory of Israel, completely defeating and occupying it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

    But this wouldn't be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat and occupy Egypt (Daniel 11:15). For Egypt is ruled by the U.S.-supported Egyptian Army, which the Baathists could see as being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being like a 51st state of the U.S. Baathism's ultimate aim is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free from all foreign (including U.S.) hegemony.

    The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the entire (Baathist) Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many still secretly tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles, and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from 3 directions at the same time, with thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and a thousand Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat and occupy Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its small area of land overrun, and sees its total defeat and occupation is imminent and assured, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran and other major cities of Iraq, Syria and Iran.

    There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere, they could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that 1/4 of the world's population could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. This war could be blamed not only on the religious fundamentalism of Islam and Judaism, but also on religious fundamentalism in general, and so could lead to a worldwide crusade against all forms of religious fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism, that is, the (correct) idea the Bible is wholly true (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4) and all other religions are cursed, doubly cursed (Galatians 1:8-9, John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12).

    After an Iraqi Baathist General who could lead the defeat and occupation of Israel and Egypt mysteriously disappears from the scene (Daniel 11:19), the Antichrist, who could be an Arab, could arise peacefully out of Lebanon (from the modern city of Tyre: Ezekiel 28:2; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and he could take up the mantle of Baathism and vow to (in his words) "complete the great work of Arab liberation and unification". The first thing the Antichrist could do once he's given control (Daniel 11:21) of a Baathist federation of Iraq, Syria, Egypt and a "United Palestine" (that is, a defeated and occupied Israel), is to perform a small and localized attack against an army of ultra-Orthodox Jews holed up in the walled Old City of Jerusalem and led by an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22).

    These ultra-Orthodox Jews could have managed to hold off the first Baathist attack even as it overran the rest of Israel, because the walled Old City of Jerusalem is considered holy to the Muslims, and so it's not to be bombarded or destroyed. The Antichrist could manage in some way to take the Old City without doing it much harm, such as by incapacitating its Jewish defenders with huge clouds of tear gas while tens of thousands of Arab soldiers wearing gas masks take control of the city by climbing over its walls on thousands of tall ladders.

    But then, instead of imprisoning or executing all the ultra-Orthodox Jews and their false Messiah, the Antichrist will do an amazing thing. He will "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23), permitting them to keep a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem, and to keep control of the Old City, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. By this peace treaty, the Antichrist could present himself to the world as (in his words): "A reasonable man, a man of peace. I am no Hitler. I do not desire a second Holocaust. I am willing to give the religious Jews in the Old City of Jerusalem 7 years to show they are willing to live peacefully with others, that they are different than the Zionist Jews who have just destroyed the world with their nuclear weapons".

    And if the Antichrist gets flak from his fellow Baathists for letting the ultra-Orthodox Jews keep the Old City of Jerusalem, he could explain to them privately that (in his words) "It's all a temporary ruse, meant to keep world opinion off guard while we consolidate our position". The Baathists could consolidate their position by becoming so well dug-in, and so well-equipped and advised militarily by the Russians (in the name of "Arab self-determination"), that a U.S. counter-attack to "restore" (that is, to take back) Israel and Egypt could fail, and leave the Baathists in control, and in a position to extend their power over all the rest of the Arab nations. For if the Baathists defeat and occupy Israel, they will be hailed by the Arab masses across the Arab world as magnificent heroes, so that the Baathists could have no problem persuading the Arab masses to support them. And the Baathists could justify their defeat of the Egyptian military regime, and then their subsequent defeat of other regimes such as in Jordan, by railing against them as being (what they could call):

    "These vile cronies of the Americans. These cronies pretended to be for the Arab people while in fact they were taking American bribes in the billions, completely selling out our Palestinian brothers to the endless cruelties of the Zionist occupation, and keeping you, the great majority of the Arab people, in poverty. These cronies, like the Zionists themselves, were the American bulwarks against our glorious Arab unification and return to world power. Join now with us, the Baathists, that we might bring about the long-awaited Arab Renaissance, the long-awaited Arab Resurrection [the Arab word 'Baath' can mean 'Renaissance' and 'Resurrection'], that we Arabs might all rise up together and unite, from Oman to Morocco, into one great United Arab States, one great Arab Empire, shaking off completely all the shackles of the West, placed upon us so long ago, and return to our former glory as we had during the Middle Ages, when we were free and far superior to the West".

    The Baathists could also rail against the kings, sheikhs and innumerable princes of the Arab Gulf States for (in their words) "Hoarding the huge oil wealth given by Allah to all the Arabs, the Prophet's own people, and keeping the Arab masses in poverty and subjugation to Western, infidel interests". The Baathists are socialist, and so could call for the distribution of the Arab oil wealth to the Arab masses (Daniel 11:24). In this way, and by their defeat and occupation of Israel, the Baathists could easily turn the masses to their side in every Arab nation.

    During the first few years of the 7-year peace treaty referred to earlier, the Antichrist could employ Baathism as the means by which he will gradually and peacefully put together a truly-federal United Arab States stretching from Oman to Morocco. Once he has accomplished this, he could begin to downplay Baathism and start speaking of "World peace and the unity of mankind". He could convince an oil-thirsty European Union to let the oil-rich United Arab States join it, thereby forming a massive Mediterranean Union, which he could manage to peacefully gain control of and use as his base of power to eventually exert his hegemony over the entire world (Revelation 13:7b).

    Then, only some 3.5 years after making the 7-year peace treaty referred to earlier, the Antichrist will break it, attack the 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices offered in front of it, and sit (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). He will then rule the whole world by the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon: Revelation 12:9) for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14), or 1,260 literal days (Revelation 12:6).

    The return of Jesus Christ from heaven (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16) may not occur immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, but could occur 75 days later, on the 1,335th day after the Antichrist and his followers set up the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15). These 75 days could be taken up by the vials of God's wrath which will be poured out on the Antichrist's worshippers (Revelation 16).

    When Jesus Christ returns, He will completely defeat the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9), and He will have Satan bound in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-3). Then the returned Jesus and the physically resurrected Church (of all times, including those in the Church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist) will reign physically on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:8-21).
     
  5. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I knew that, but I had to make everyone else aware that I know nothing of those people, they may be good people, or wackos, but I do not know them, the way you put it seemed like my ideas came from them, so I was more or less clarifying for others.

    It is in the bible as such brother, those who see it are just repeating scriptures. Its very clear to me. He deceives MANY BY PEACE...He makes a Covenant/AGREEMENT with MANY.....Daniel is using this word MANY in back to back chapters on purpose. You are not picking up on it at all. He destroys MANY via Peace and he makes a Agreement with MANY...The word Covenant seems to be throwing you off balance, imho. Stop thinking HOLY....It doesn't mean Holy unless its an Agreement with God. Its an AGREEMENT between the Anti-Christ and MANY !! Not God !!

    Why does Daniel use MANY? Its either that or give the names, and I do not think the Angel gave Daniel the names per se. He only gave hints to Daniel, then told him to go his way when Daniel begged for more details. The Angel told Daniel....MANY on PURPOSE !!

    Then we cross reference Rev. ch 6, and we see the Anti-Christ TAKES PEACE from the earth. This was not a slight by John via Jesus, this was used on purpose imho. The Red Horse could have brought WARS to mankind !!! Instead he TAKES PEACE from the Earth, Jesus/John is telling us something, this is a MAJOR CLUE....This man comes to power VIA PEACE !! Then in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK....He reneges, just like Dan. 9:27 says. Its all right there in front of you, I laid out the scriptural case for my understanding. Nowhere is a Holy Covenant spoken of. It is about the Little Horn DECEIVING MANY VIA PEACE.

    Again, nothing...NOTHING the Jews believe now has any merit to it. God told you brother the Jews will be BLINDED until the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Why are you being led by what the blind think? Its irrelevant what they think until they Repent. (THEY ARE BLIND)

    As per what they MIGHT THINK, I get that thinking, but the bible tells us that Elijah turns them back to God before the Great and Terrible day of the Lord. Here is where I think we are parting ways. Yes, there will be 2/3 of Jews who die during the Tribulation Period, many probably can't get to the Holy Land from wherever, and they are killed, but all those that live in Israel either Repent, or chose to follow the Beast. But Israel as a Nation repents and flees unto the Wilderness on the very day the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem. How do I know? SIMPLE MATH....He is a BEAST for 42 Months (1260 days) and Israel is protected by God for 1260 days. That means he Conquers Jerusalem and places this IMAGE in the Temple and the very first Day !! Its simple math brother.

    You have always had some evil Jews who worshiped false gods, of course some will follow the Beast, but they will die, but ALL ISRAEL will be Saved, meaning Abraham's seed is preserved, and Israel as a Nation is preserved. They do not accept this man as the Messiah, maybe a few will, but they will be killed by the Ant-Christ or Gods Angels in Woe number 2.

    Its SIMPLE MATH BROTHER.....It can not be as you describe it. Its just unfathomable you can not add this up, even just in your mind, much less with a piece of paper. I don't get it tbf.

    The Anti-Christ comes forth on day 1260 you do get that right? MIDDLE OF THE WEEK !!

    The Two Witnesses are around for 1260 Days also. So by using MATH that CAN NOT BE WRONG we understand exactly when the Two-witnesses come forth.

    Since the Anti-Christ COMES FORTH on day 1260 (Middle of the Week) and his timeline OVERLAPS much of the Two-witnesses time-line, not understanding this kind of makes me shake my head.

    So Anti-Christ shows up on day 1260...Two witnesses are around for ALL THE SEALS and they are around for SIX OF THE TRUMPETS !!!

    How long do the SEVEN VIALS LAST? That is the ONLY DIFFERENCE in the Beasts timeline and the Two-witnesses timeline !!

    I don't get how you can get that wrong, continually. It makes no sense to me.

    Day 1260 is the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK....That is Rev. ch. 6, the very FIRST SEAL. Your timeline just is WAY OFF and its throwing you off course brother. Stop sticking with old assumptions, recalculate, even Einstein got has math wrong on Relativity to start with. It happens.

    The FIRST SEAL is the BEAST COMING FORTH......In the Middle of the Week. You saying he becomes the BEAST at the Seven Trumpet just doesn't add up.

    The Two witnesses are Praying down the Plagues brother, why do you think the WHOLE WORLD HATES THEM? The Seals come forth, then the Trumpet Plagues, then they die.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    What are you talking about? What bible verse?

    Not mid-point of the week, but middle part. And the big error you are making is using the term Anti-Christ erroneous.

    Comes forth is also not a term in the bible in regards to the person. What verse are you referring to?

    The frrst seal is the rider on the white horse - the person is the Antichrist at that time, anointed the King of Israel, the reason for his crown. At the beginning of the 7 years, not at the middle. Since you are saying middle, you must believe in the full 70th week still to go. Revelation 6 is an overview of the entire 7 years.

    The person becomes the beast before the seventh trumpet sounds. The seventh trumpet does not follow chronologically the sixth trumpet. Just as the seventh seal does not chronologically follow the sixth seal.

    In Revelation 11:7, the person is the beast as he makes war on the two witnesses. After he kills them and they come back to life and rise - then the seventh trumpet sounds, Revelation 11:15. So the person has become the beast before the seven trumpet sounds.
     
  7. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that they do. For Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are chronological insofar as the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the Tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

    Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the Tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus Christ's Second Coming will occur right after the 7th and last vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21) and He will rapture and marry the Church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then He will defeat the world's armies (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3) and reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.
     
  8. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think God EMPHASIZES 1260/42 Months/Time, times and 1/2 time over and over? How do you miss that brother? Its VERY KEY to any End time prophecy. Then you add in Dan. 9:27's in the Middle of the Week and it can not get any clearer.

    It says in the MIDST OF THE WEEK.......Then you add in the 42 Months......the 1260 Days......the Time, times and a half a time, and it all points to the Anti-Christ becoming the BEAST at the MIDWAY POINT of the Final Week as decreed by Daniel.

    And he is the Anti-Christ/Little Horn, then when he Conquers Jerusalem he becomes the FINAL BEAST but for only 42 Months, the bible tells us he will be the BEAST for 42 Months.

    Seal #1 is the Anti-Christ being allowed to COME FORTH, Thessalonians ch. 2 says he is being BLOCKED, Jesus releases him to come forth as a POWER (BEAST OVER ISRAEL) !! This happens in the Middle of the week according to Dan. 9:27, and since we know he rules for 42 Months that means he is the BEAST at the exact mid point of the week, why do you think God is so definite with this timeline everywhere? Rev. ch. 6 therefore is the EXACT MID POINT. The Seals bring forth the Anti-Christ, he kills 1/4 of all mankind, the Church has already been Raptured so he is destroying Islam and all religions, he will force every man on earth to worship him as GOD !!

    Israel FLEES for 1260 Days, this tells us they FLEE at the exact time the Anti-Christ comes forth. We have a ONE WEEK PERIOD Left after the Rapture, thus everything hinges on this timeline. If the Anti-Christ becomes the BEAST at the 42 month mark of the week that means he creates a ONE WEEK Peace/Security deal an in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK RENEGES !!

    Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant (AGREEMENT Nowhere is God mentioned) with many (NATIONS) for one week (7 Years): and in the midst of the week (at 42 Months he conquers Jerusalem and DEFILES the Temple, then hes the BEAST for 42 Months 42 + 42 is ONE WEEK or 7 Years) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Israel Flees for 1260 Days the exact time-frame that the Beast rules Jerusalem/the Saints. The Two-witnesses die at the 6th Trumpet or 2nd Woe. That is not the Middle of the Week, that is near the END OF THE WEEK. Like one or two months away. Which means the two-witness have to show up a Month or two before the BEAST Conquers Jerusalem, which fits with Malachi 4:5-6, Israel repents when Elijah preaches, BEFORE the Day of the Lord, which is the MID-WAY POINT.

    Read Zechariah ch. 14, it tells you (I just saw this last night for the first time) that the Day of the Lord happens on the VERY DAY that the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem. THE VERY DAY !! So the Day of the Lord and the First Seal bringing forth the Anti-Christ to Conquer Jerusalem where he becomes the BEAST.......Both happen on the SAME DAY.


    Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

    This is the Anti-Christ CONQUERING Jerusalem, this is when he becomes the BEAST !! Thus the Day of the Lord is a 3.5 year period of Gods Wrath and KICKS OFF when the very First Seal is opened.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  9. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Israel has repented by this time, they NEVER accept him as their Messiah and you can not point to them accepting him anywhere in Scriptures. And Malachi 4:5-6 say they REPENT before the Day of the Lord as does Zechariah 12:10 and 13:1.

    There is no use in me debating this, the FIRST SEAL is the Midway point.

    So you really think a DEMON is the BEAST? This throws your whole theory off? No Demon is one of the SEVEN BEASTS....Why do you think it calls him the 8th King? He is OF ALL SEVEN...Stop trying to make a Demon a MATERIAL BEAST KINGDOM, it just is not a fact. You are trying to take a Demon Spirit, and make him a Beast Kingdom of this world, and that is not the case. John is trying to tell you/me he was over ALL SIX of the Beasts, you do know Demons are over certain regions right? So this is a PRINCIPALITY IN HIGH PLACES as Paul spoke of. He is OF THE SEVEN....He is not one of the Seven else he would not be called the 8th King.

    He is NOT THE BEAST of Rev. 13. He is a Demonic entity, we could call Satan the 9th BEAST.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  10. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    You are kind of right, but instead of mucking it up lets just separate the events in Heaven and on Earth.

    Rev. 1,2 and 3 happened 2000 years ago.

    Rev. 4, 5, 7 and 19 is the Church in Heaven. (Rev. ch. 7 is not the Tribulation Martyrs)

    Rev. 6, 8, 9, 11 (Because of the 2nd Woe), 15 and 16 are the Seal, Trumpets and Vials in Order.

    Rev. 10 (Mystery ch.), 12, 13, 14, 17 and 18 all are just Visions of things that start in Rev. Ch. 6 except Rev. 10, its a Mystery of sorts to me. Rev. 12 is Israel Fleeing at the MIDWAY POINT which is the First Seal being opened. Rev. 13 is the BEAST Arising, which is the First Seal being opened. Rev. 14 is the Harvest which Matches up with both Rev. 16 and Rev. 18. Since Jesus is shown to come in the Clouds then is shown to Harvest the Evil minions in the wine-press this chapter could be said to last for the 7 full year period.

    Rev. 17 happens during the Seals, it is the Anti-Christ/BEAST Destroying ALL RELIGIONS of the World, he comes to power and wipes out Islam, chases Israel unto the Wilderness and goes after the Remnant of the Church who missed the Rapture but gave their lives to Christ after the Rapture. This is what the KINGS Killing the Harlot mean in Rev. 17:16. He is destroying all FALSE RELIGIONS by destroying ALL RELIGIONS. It is the Harlots JUDGMENT.

    Rev. 18 starts in Rev. ch. 6 and ends in Rev. ch. 16. It is Babylon (World Governments under Satan) being hit by the Seals/Trumpets and Vials of God. So as you see, Rev. 17 and 18 are not REAL TIME EVENTS..........This is obvious because Rev. 16 says IT IS DONE !!
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Midst of the week does not mean midpoint.

    When on the 7 year timeline is the abomination of desolation setup that triggers the Jews to flee to the mountains?

    Matthew 24:
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    Daniel 12:
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You are misreading Revelation.

    Revelation 8:
    13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    Revelation 12:
    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    The time, times, half times. The third woe revealed is Satan being cast down to the earth.

    The 6th trumpet, which has the 2nd woe revealed, of three woes to be revealed, is at the end of the 7 years.... yes.

    But the 7th trumpet is not at the end because - following John's vision of the trumpet judgments playing out - in Chapter 10 he is shown a new vision. In that new vision, the full seven years are played out, with the two witnesses 1260 days in the first half, and the 42 months in the second half.

    The new vision in Chapter 10-11 has the 7th trumpet, and recounting that John has just recently in Chapter 9 in the vision of the trumpet judgements been shown the second woe, and coming up John will shortly be shown what the third woe is - Satan being cast down for earth for the time, times, half times in Chapter 12.

    Woe 1, Woe 2 in Chapter 9 are in the second half, in the trumpets vision.

    Woe 3, initiated when the 7th trumpet sounds in the new vision, resulting in Satan being cast down, the time, times, half times is the second half. Satan is cast down and is the falling star, who releases the flesh tormenting locust, led by Abbaddon.

    The 7th trumpet, which is in the new vision John has, is not at the end of the 7 years, it is at the middle. The two witnesses killed day 1260, the 7th trumpet sounds, Satan is cast down the time, times, half times second half.


    If you have the 7th trumpet sounding on a linear timeline, not taking into account that John was presented a new vision in Chapter 10, that would add another time, times, half times to the 7 years..... since you have the two witnesses killed near the end of the 7 years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No, what you write is not what I have been saying at all.

    What I have been saying at this forum is that the 7th king of the Roman Empire becomes the 8th king of the Roman Empire, of the Julio-Claudian family. When killed and brought back to life, the person takes on the persona as the beast.

    There is a unclean spirit in the bottomless pit right now called the beast. He is not one of the 7 heads, because he not one of the 7 Julio-Claudian human kings of the Roman Empire.

    The unclean spirit's role is possess the human king, after the human king is killed and brought back to life, amplifying the evil nature of the person.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It is not me who is missing it. You are missing that the three different time expressions are used because they are not exact equivalents of each other, as used in Revelation.
     
  15. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I miss nothing because I do not rely on myself. You have the wrong horse brother.

    This is why you get off course. You want to STRETCH Satan being cast down to Earth as a Third Woe, even though that is not what it is. Now show me anywhere in chapter 12 where a TRUMPET SOUNDED to usher in the Woe, it isn't there brother, its just you imagining its the Third Woe. Just because a word is used in one place doesn't mean God is prohibited from using it in another place.

    Read Rev. 9, 5th Trumpet Sounded = 1st WOE.........6th Trumpet sounded = 2nd WOE. What does this tell a logical thinker? That the Seventh Trumpet brings in the SEVEN VIALS !! And thus all Seven Vials are the THIRD WOE !! But you have to change the whole timeline to fit in a THIRD WOE, when chapter 12 never shows a Trumpet ushering it in, that defies all logic Doug. The Seventh Seal ushers in the SEVEN TRUMPETS and the Seventh Trumpet ushers in the SEVEN VIALS, and since Trumpet 5 and 6 are Woes that tells us the THIRD WOE is all Seven Vials !! It doesn't need to be stated. Notice the Seventh Seal is the SEVEN TRUMPS and likewise the Seventh Trump is the SEVEN VIALS, thereby the THIRD WOE is the SEVEN VIALS !!

    book-of-revelation-summary-in-13-slides-4-638.jpg

    Watch this brother.......You missed this it seems or misconstrued it.

    Rev. 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    The Third Woe (Seventh Trumpet) is the Seven Vials just like the Seventh Seal is all Seven Trumpets.

    Rev. 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

    Again, you seem to want Rev. 12 to come after Rev. 11, but that is not how it is written. Rev. 15 is the next ch. in line with Rev. 11, and even Rev. 16.

    No, the Sixth Trumpet is not at the end of the seven years. The Seventh Vial is at the end of Seven years. The BEAST is still in power in Jerusalem until he is killed at Armageddon. I have seen a lot of people make this mistake, they see this verse below and just assume it means that God has already taken over.

    Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    But this is only an Angel announcing that the coming Third Woe or Seven Vials will end the Satanic stronghold on earth and mankind. They are all defeated at the Seventh Seal. In Rev. 16 an Angel proclaims IT IS DONE !!

    The Time, times and a 1/2 time is the 1260 day period that the BEAST RULES. Its the exact time frame as the Day of the Lord Gods Wrath.
    So the SIXTH is at the end but the SEVENTH is not. I think you are confused brother. The 21 Judgments are all in PERFECT ORDER, but Revelation is not in order.

    I explain this above, no use repeating it, Satan being cast down IS NOT the 3rd WOE, there is no TRUMPET BLAST....But the Seventh Trumpet/Third Woe is seen to be sounded in Rev. ch. 11, it brings in the SEVEN VIALS which are the THIRD WOE. ( It is so logical.....5th Trumpet = 1st WOE.....6th Trumpet = 2nd WOE......7th Trumpet = the SEVEN VIALS !!! or the THIRD WOE.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  16. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    There is NO MAN coming back to life. PERIOD.
     
  17. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Brother your timeline is all over the place, until you understand the Anti-Christ comes forth via the first Seal on day 1260 (Middle of the Week) you will never be on the right time-line. I honestly do not see why this is so difficult.

    God made this easy for us, once we understand he designed everything around the Midway point.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  18. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    The 7 heads of Revelation's "beast" in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent 7 different empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first 5 had fallen by the time of the apostle John in the 1st century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) hadn't come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of 5 five empires fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10-11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon destroyed at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Isaiah 13).

    Before the Second Coming, when the world is brought into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

    The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system which Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

    Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The seven vials are not called a woe. Satan being cast down is called a woe in the text of Revelation 12 in exact same language as said in Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    The seventh trumpet signifies that Satan is about to be cast down, because it says the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of God and his Christ - meaning Satan's kingdom mystery babylon the great is about to be plunged to earth and judged.
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You equate being the beast with being the Antichrist. Which is wrong.

    The rider on the white horse is the Antichrist. He is not the beast at that point. He is the Antichrist, the King of Israel, instead of and against, Jesus the rightful King of Israel.
     
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