Every Man For Himself Bible Versionism

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
(continued)


Now, back to Acts 13:33. - What does the phrase, “This day have I begotten thee” mean? Jesus Christ did not become the only begotten Son at His incarnation. This false doctrine is called incarnational Sonship. He was the only begotten Son BEFORE His taking on a human body.
Dr. Douglas Stauffer, a Baptist pastor and preacher, has written a book called One Book Stands Alone, which is a good defense of the King James Bible. Regarding Acts 13:33 and its meaning, Mr. Stauffer notes on pages 24-25: KJB Acts 13:33 "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE."

"When the Father said this to the Son, it was not at His birth. It was at His resurrection. He became the "first BEGOTTEN of the dead" Rev.1:5. God did not become the Lord's Father when He was born or Mary or at the resurrection. He is from everlasting, with no beginning. The Son always was...but not so in the NIV."

NIV Acts 13:33 "he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "You are my Son; TODAY I HAVE BECOME YOUR FATHER." Other modern versions that completely pervert the meaning of this verse like the NIV are the Holman Standard and the NET version online.

"The Lord Jesus Christ did not become THE SON of God at any time during His earthly life or ministry. (Psalm 2:12) The Lord Jesus Christ (God the Son) can be found throughout the Old Testament. Numerous appearances are revealed prior to His being born of Mary. A great passage in proof of this truth is located in the book of Daniel when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are thrown into the fiery furnace. Notice who else shows up... the ETERNAL Son of God." (Dr. Douglas Stauffer)

The orthodox doctrine that the Lord Jesus Christ was begotten before His incarnation was firmly established in 325 A.D at the council of Nicea when the church was combating the teaching of Arianism. Arianism taught that Christ was a created being; that He had an origin and was inferior to God the Father. The NIV, ESV, RSV and Jehovah's Witness versions all support the heresy of Arianism in Micah 5:2 by telling us of Christ that His "origins are from ancient times" instead of the KJB, NASB, NKJV's "whose goings forth are from everlasting."!

Here is part of the well known Nicean Creed.

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, begotten of his Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made;

I John 4:9, "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." He was the only begotten Son before He was sent into this world.

At least three different verses testify to the fact that the Son of God existed in Old Testament times. In Daniel 3:25 king Nebuchadnezzar ordered Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego cast into the fiery furnace. He then saw four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire..."and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."

Psalms 2:12 exhorts kings and judges of the earth to be wise and "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."

Proverbs 30:4 asks: "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is HIS SON'S name, if thou canst tell?"

"Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."

Bible translations that correctly read "this day have I begotten thee" are Wycliffe 1395, Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, the Geneva Bible 1587, 1602, Whiston's N.T. 1745, Worsley Version 1770, Wesley Translation 1790, Etheridge Translation 1849, Noyes Translation 1869, Darby 1890, Young's 1898, the Revised Version 1885, the American Standard Version 1901, Rotherham's Emphasized Version 1902, the RSV 1947, NRSV 1989, the NKJV 1982, NASB 1963-1995 and the 2001 ESV.

The NIV, ISV ( International Standard Version) and Southern Baptist Holman Christian Standard of 2003, Daniel Wallace's NET version, and the TNIV teach heresy with their rendering of Acts 13:33 by saying, "Today I HAVE BECOME YOUR FATHER."

Daniel Wallace, of Dallas Theological Seminary, is in the process of writing his own bible version called NET (New English Translation). Dallas TS has wholeheartedly embraced the confusion of the modern versions, and a recent poll shows that most of the seminarians there no longer believe in the Inerrancy of Scripture.

Wallace's NET version reads: "God has fulfilled to us, their children, by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second psalm, ‘You are my Son; TODAY I HAVE FATHERED YOU.’ " He then footnotes Greek “I have begotten you.” The traditional translation for gegevnnhka (“begotten”) is misleading to the modern English reader because it is no longer in common use. Today one speaks of “fathering” a child in much the same way speakers of English formerly spoke of “begetting a child.”

Wallace gives us the usual song and dance about "updating the language" so as not to mislead, and yet it never dawns on him that his "updated language" version is in fact teaching a heresy.

This teaches that there was a time when Jesus Christ was not the Son, and God was not His Father. This is the same teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and their New World Translation reads exactly like that of the NIV, ISV, NET, TNIV, and Holman CSB. (And the scholars tell us the bible versions are getting better. What a pathetic joke.) The verb used here is gennao, to beget or to be born. There are no Greek words here for the NIV, ISV, HCSB's "have become" or "Father" in any Greek text on this earth.

In what sense then can Jesus be said to have been begotten on a certain day? This happened at the resurrection. Christ bore the sins of His people, and died in our place. He died physically and spiritually - Spiritually in that He was forsaken by the Father. “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” Matthew 27:46.

The Lord Jesus Christ refers to Himself in Revelation 1:5 as "the FIRSTBEGOTTEN FROM THE DEAD", and in Colossians 1:18 He is called "THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD, that in all things he might have the preeminence."

I believe the NKJV and the NASB are wrong by applying Acts 13:33 to Christ's incarnation, and the NIV, ISV, NET, TNIV, HCSB, and NWT are heretical by having God say: "Today I have become your Father", thus teaching Christ was not the Son, nor God His Father before a certain day.

Proverbs 30:5-6 "EVERY WORD OF GOD IS PURE: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Is EVERY WORD pure in your Bible version? Do you even care one way or the other?

May our attitude toward God's word be that of king David- “Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.” Psalm 119:128.

Will Kinney

Return to Articles - articles - Another King James Bible Believer
 
Upvote 0

Look4him

Newbie
Jan 15, 2011
5
0
✟7,615.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Will,
Yes, I did marry her. Have been very happily married for 8 months now.:clap:

Now, to address your points. The German bibles (which do vary among themselves in both texts and meanings) are not a good place to go searching for an infallible Bible. God knows the future. He is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. Germany was the first country to go into full blown apostasy through German Rationalism and Higher Criticism. Luther himself was extremely anti-Semitic. He omitted 1 John 5:7, which is in the NKJV and all English Bibles from Wycliffe 1395, Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535 and the Great Bible 1540, all of which preceded Luther's German bible of 1545. Luther thought the book of James was an epistle of straw and did not belong in the Bible.

You say they preceded the Luther Bible? Only the Wycliff, which I believe is translated out of Latin. The Luther German is based on Erasmus’s 2nd edition where as the rest of these Bibles( Tyndale, Coverdale, Great Bible) are based on his 3rd edition. Luther had the New Testament published in 1522, but it went until 1534 until he published the whole Bible.

Are you insinuating that German Rationalism and Higher Criticism might have something to do with the Luther German differing from the KJV? That is just wrong. I am not trying to say that the Luther Bible is a perfect translation. But the Luther German translation is older and has not been touched by as many people (Beza) as the KJV.

God did not chose to use the German Bible nor German missionaries to start the modern day Foreign Missions outreach that began around 1750. He used English and American missionaries carrying one Bible - the King James Holy Bible - to the nations of the world.

God also used the Luther German, but that is beside the point.

Luther's bible and the NKJV differ in numerous places, even in the few you mentioned. NKJV has Lucifer. NKJV also has "God forbid".

My whole point is that people from your camp will claim that there is no Hebrew or Greek manuscript that contains any evidence to support a particular translation. That it is a modern perversion. For instance in one of your own articles regarding the usage of “morning star” you make the claim that

The problem with the translation, "MORNING STAR" (#1966- haylale), is that the words "morning" and "star" are not found here in ANY Hebrew text. (Morning is #1242- boker and star is #3556- kokawb)

So what am I supposed to believe here? Like I said, I can’t read Hebrew,so whether it is in the Hebrew text or not, I don’t know. But I do know that Luther thought it should be translated “beautiful morning star” and that was before the KJV ever came along. So when your camp makes claims like this, you very quickly discredit yourselves.

IF you DO believe "The Bible" is the complete and infallible words of God, then please tell us exactly where we can get a copy of it so we can compare it to what we are reading now to see the differences and similarities. Will you do that for us?

I don’t believe that any translation of the Bible is without translational error. But your whole premise is wrong. You are demanding that God has given us a Bible that is devoid of any translational errors. Maybe God has chosen a different method of preserving his word than the one that you are demanding of him. All the verses that you quote as being proof that God would preserve his word. Remember, those words were in the 1522 Luther German Bible before they were ever in the KJV. At least Luther was sure enough of his translation that he didn’t have to put alternate words in the margin! Come to think of it, maybe Luther’s version is inspired!


Look4him
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
And one more thing I have:
Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today

First, I want to affirm with all evangelical Christians that the Bible is the Word of God, inerrant, inspired, and our final authority for faith and life. However, nowhere in the Bible am I told that only one translation of it is the correct one.
SOURCE: BIBLE.ORG BY Daniel B. Wallace

bible.org /article/why-i-do-not-think-king-james-bible-best-translation-available-today

Hi CTS. Daniel Wallace is not the best guy to be using. He starts off with a huge lie. Daniel Wallace himself does not believe that "The Bible" is the inspired and inerrant word of God. He could not give you a copy of this inspired and inerrant Bible if his life depended on it. His well known NET version is in a continual state of flux and he often rejects the clear Hebrew readings and he is basically a Westcott-Hort type of guy.

Rather, it is a FACT that most Christians today do NOT believe "the Bible" (any bible) is the infallible words of God. Didn't you see those polls I posted? They were all done by non-KJB onlies, and Barna conducted a recent survey among Evangelicals and the majority of them no longer believe The Bible is the infallible words of God.

Also of note, I know of no King James Bible believer who thinks that a person has to be KJB only in order to be saved. There may be a few out there someplace, but I know or have had contact with hundreds of Bible believers and I have never heard them say that unless a person is a King James Bible believer then he cannot possibly be saved. This is just slander and a poisoning of the well done by those who themselves are bible agnostics.

We do not base our whole belief that the King James Bible is the infallible words of God solely on textual criticism. You will never know if you go that route, and that is where you are now - "I don't know"

We base our faith on the sovereignty of God and His promises to preserve His words in the book of the LORD. God is a God of truth who cannot lie. ALL modern versions have lies and false doctrines and ridiculous statements in them that prove them to be false witnesses. Only the KJB is left standing as always telling the truth and always teaching correct doctrine.

God has to open your spiritual eyes to see this.

As for Daniel Wallace, here is a good article called "Why you shouldn't care what Daniel Wallace thinks of the King James Bible". And, by the way, I did not write it;)

Why you shouldn't care what Daniel Wallace thinks about the King James Bible
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
Will,
Yes, I did marry her. Have been very happily married for 8 months now.:clap:

Great. Glad to hear it. I wish you both all of God's best for your lives.


You say they preceded the Luther Bible? Only the Wycliff, which I believe is translated out of Latin. The Luther German is based on Erasmus’s 2nd edition where as the rest of these Bibles( Tyndale, Coverdale, Great Bible) are based on his 3rd edition. Luther had the New Testament published in 1522, but it went until 1534 until he published the whole Bible.

I stand corrected. You are right. I was looking at the 1545 Luther Bible.


My whole point is that people from your camp will claim that there is no Hebrew or Greek manuscript that contains any evidence to support a particular translation. That it is a modern perversion. For instance in one of your own articles regarding the usage of “morning star” you make the claim that

The problem with the translation, "MORNING STAR" (#1966- haylale), is that the words "morning" and "star" are not found here in ANY Hebrew text. (Morning is #1242- boker and star is #3556- kokawb)

So what am I supposed to believe here? Like I said, I can’t read Hebrew,so whether it is in the Hebrew text or not, I don’t know. But I do know that Luther thought it should be translated “beautiful morning star” and that was before the KJV ever came along. So when your camp makes claims like this, you very quickly discredit yourselves.

Brother, the Hebrew text does NOT say STAR in Isaiah 14:12. The word "star" is found in the next verse, but not in 14:12. A lot of it comes down to how one translates or understands the Hebrew word, but the literal word "star" is NOT there in any Hebrew text.

IF you DO believe "The Bible" is the complete and infallible words of God, then please tell us exactly where we can get a copy of it so we can compare it to what we are reading now to see the differences and similarities. Will you do that for us?

I don’t believe that any translation of the Bible is without translational error. But your whole premise is wrong. You are demanding that God has given us a Bible that is devoid of any translational errors.
Look4him

Well then, brother, by your own admission you do not believe in the infallibility of Scripture. You certainly have no specific Hebrew or Greek text that you believe are the right ones in contrast to the others, and you have no translation that you think is without error, so that leaves you with no infallible bible.

Not even your Luther bible and NKJV agree with each other in texts or meanings in scores if not hundreds of places, and you don't take a stand on either of them as being infallible. You seem to be, like most today, picking the parts you personally like or prefer, but believe that none of them are the perfect words of God. Sounds like a slippery slope approach to God's Book.

It is my belief that God would not use Germany and its bibles as the repository of His pure truth. It was the source of Rationalism and Higher Criticism and you will find precious few Christians in Germany today. Europe is a spiritual wasteland and the United States is headed that way by corruption from within. We do live in interesting times.

Blessings,

Will K
 
  • Like
Reactions: sheina
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
Why is scholar Daniel Wallace such a big liar?

Fourth, when one compares the number of variations that are found in the various MSS with the actual variations between the Textus Receptus and the best Greek witnesses, it is found that these two are remarkably similar. There are over 400,000 textual variants among NT MSS. But the differences between the Textus Receptus and texts based on the best Greek witnesses number about 5000—and most of these are untranslatable differences! In other words, over 98% of the time, the Textus Receptus and the standard critical editions agree. Those who vilify the modern translations and the Greek texts behind them have evidently never really investigated the data. Their appeals are based largely on emotion, not evidence.
SOURCE: BIBLE.ORG BY Daniel B. Wallace

That a professional scholar like Dan Wallace could come out with such bald face lies is simply amazing. "98% of the time the Textus Receptus and his so called "best" Greek witnesses agree"? And if anybody says differently they never investigated the data???

Let's see --


Are all bible versions 99.5% the same?

One of the common and most obvious falsehoods we often hear by those who rail against the idea that the King James Bible is the complete, inspired and 100% true words of God is the claim that all thousands of textual variations out there are very minor and not of any real importance, and that the various bible versions are basically 99.5% the same.

These ridiculous claims by those who do not believe that ANY Bible in ANY language are the complete, preserved and infallible words of God are so easily proven to be absurdly false that one has to assume that such people are either speaking out of complete ignorance of the facts or they are deliberately lying.

Here is one such claim found on a popular anti-King James Bible only site written by a man named Steve Rudd. "KJV Only" advocates refuted! We will look carefully at what he says and then respond to his statements. He writes:


“This outline is designed to refute the view that the King James Version (KJV) is the only modern Bible on earth that is 100% accurate and error free. Foremost, we feel that the KJV is an EXCELLENT translation, but not the ONLY excellent translation. In over 90 percent of the New Testament, readings are identical word-for-word, regardless of the family. Of the remaining ten percent, MOST of the differences between the texts are fairly irrelevant, such as calling the Lord "Christ Jesus" instead of "Jesus Christ," or putting the word "the" before a noun. Less than two percent would significantly alter the meaning of a passage, and NONE of them would contradict or alter any of the basic points of Christian doctrine. What we have, then, is a dispute concerning less than one-half of one percent of the Bible. The other 99.5% we all agree on! Because there are over 14,000 manuscript copies of the New Testament we can absolutely be confident of its accuracy.” Steve Rudd.

Responding to Mr. Rudd’s Claims.

First of all, Mr. Rudd has a peculiar way of using the words telling us that “we feel that the KJV is AN EXCELLENT TRANSLATION”. If he really thinks it is such an excellent translation, then why do so many of his other articles found on the same site go on and on, example after example, complaining about how the King James Bible is based on the wrong texts and has scores if not hundreds of translational errors?
Either his standard of “excellency” is very low or he is not willing to be honest and come right out and tell us that he thinks the King James Bible is an inferior and error ridden relic of the past that should be left behind and abandoned for something more modern and accurate.

Secondly, Mr. Rudd then tells us: “In over 90 percent of the New Testament, readings are identical word-for-word, regardless of the family. Of the remaining ten percent, MOST of the differences between the texts are fairly irrelevant, such as calling the Lord "Christ Jesus" instead of "Jesus Christ," or putting the word "the" before a noun. Less than two percent would significantly alter the meaning of a passage, and NONE of them would contradict or alter any of the basic points of Christian doctrine. What we have, then, is a dispute concerning less than one-half of one percent of the Bible. The other 99.5% we all agree on! “

Here is where Mr. Rudd goes completely off track and is either speaking out of ignorance or is flat out lying about the facts.

Modern version proponents (also known as Bible Agnostics because they do not know and cannot tell you with absolute certainty which parts of all the various contradictory versions are from God and which are not) often try to tell us that all the bible versions teach the same things doctrinally and so there is not need to get all upset about this King James Bible onlyism stuff.

Well, this simply is not true. There ARE definite doctrinal differences and it is these very real differences that prove the modern versions to be false witnesses. Please see “No Doctrines Are Changed?”

NoDoctrineChanged - Another King James Bible Believer


Mr. Rudd is pretty close to the truth when he says there is about a 10% difference regarding the text of the Bible among the various translations out there today, but then he grossly overstates his case when he tries to pass off the majority of these as being nothing more than reversing the name of Jesus Christ or putting “the” before a noun. He is completely in error when he claims that “the other 99.5% we all agree on!”

Then he goes way over the top when he affirms as his conclusion: “Because there are over 14,000 manuscript copies of the New Testament we can absolutely be confident of its accuracy.”

Let’s check out the FACTS, OK?

(more to come)
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
There are many myths that are perpetuated today by the defenders of the modern versions, and one of those is that there is very little difference between the Received Text underlying the King James Bible and other ancient Protestant versions and the Westcott-Hort Greek text underlying most of the modern versions. Westcott and Hort themselves made this claim in their day, and it is widely repeated today. The fact is that the differences are large and serious and a choice must be made.

The following is from Dr. Donald Waite's book Defending the King James Bible: "The Westcott and Hort Text changes the Textus Receptus in over 5,600 places.”

"Do you know how many changes they made? My own personal count, as of August 2, 1984, using Scrivener's Greek New Testament referred to above, was 5,604 changes that Westcott and Hort made to the Textus Receptus in their own Greek New Testament text. Of these 5,604 alterations, I found 1,952 to be OMISSIONS (35%), 467 to be ADDITIONS (8%), and 3,185 to be CHANGES (57%). In these 5,604 places that were involved in these alterations, there were 4,366 more words included, making a total of 9,970 Greek words that were involved. This means that in a Greek Text of 647 pages (such as Scrivener's text), this would average 15.4 words per page that were CHANGED from the Received Text. Pastor Jack Moorman counted 140,521 words in the Textus Receptus. These changes would amount to 7% of the words; and 45.9 pages of the Greek New Testament if placed together in one place.”

"Rev. Jack A. Moorman, in December 1988, wrote a book entitled: 'Missing in Modern Bibles--Is The Full Story Being Told?' It was published by The Bible For Today in April, 1989. Rev. Moorman counted every word of the Received Greek Text and also every word of the Nestle/Aland Greek Text and, on a chapter by chapter count, came up with the Nestle/Aland text being SHORTER than the Received Text by 2,886 words. This is 934 words more than were omitted from the Westcott and Hort text. (1,952 vs. 2,886). The omitting of 2,886 Greek words is the equivalent, in number of English words involved, of DROPPING OUT THE ENTIRE BOOKS OF 1 PETER AND 2 PETER! Pastor Moorman's book is eighty large pages." [B.F.T. #1726] (Bible for Today, 900 Park Ave., Collingswood, NJ 08108)

Just to prove that these textual changes are far more than just reversing the name of Jesus Christ to Christ Jesus or adding the word “the” before a noun, here is a concrete list showing MANY BUT BY NO MEANS ALL of the textual differences between translations like the King James Bible along with the NKJV and versions like the NIV and NASB. See if you think these textual differences are of no major significance and that they add up to 99.5% the same.

Whole or most of the verses omitted in the NIV as compared to the KJB and NKJV. There are another 28 entire verses in addition to these 17 examples from the NIV omitted from the text of the Revised Standard Version. Among these 28 ADDITIONAL verses omitted from the text of the Revised Standard Version are Mark 16:9 through 20 (11 whole verses), John 8:1 through 11 (eleven more verses), Matthew 12:47 (ESV too), 21:44, 23:14, Luke 22:20; Luke 24:3, 6, 12 and 40! (That makes for a total of 45 entire verses missing from the N.T. text of the RSV!)

Matthew 12:47 - “Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.” (Omitted by RSV and ESV but found in NIV, NASB, NKJV)

Matthew 17:21- “Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.”

Matthew 18:11 - “For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.”

Matthew 23:14- “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.”

Mark 7:16 - “If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.”

Mark 9:44 - “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”

Mark 9:46 - “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”

Mark 11:26 - “But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespases.”

Mark 15:28 - “And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.”

Luke 17:36 - “Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”

Luke 23:17 - “For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.”

John 5:4 - “For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.”

Acts 8:37 - “And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

Acts 15:34 - “Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.”

Acts 24:6b to 8a - “and would have judged according to our law. But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands, Commanding his accusers to come unto thee”

Acts 28:29 -”And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.”

Romans - 16:24 “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.”

I John 5:7-8 - omits the words: “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth”


NIV - Portions of Verses Omitted

Matthew
5:27 by them of old time
5:44 bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you
5:44 despitefully use you, and
6:13 For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
15:6 or his mother
15:8 draweth nigh unto Me with their mouth, and
19:9 and whoso marrieth her which is put away- doth commit adultery
19:20 from my youth
20:7 and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive
20:16 for many be called, but few chosen
20:22 and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with
20:23 and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with
22:13 and take him away
23:4 and grievous to be borne
25:13 wherein the Son of man cometh
26:3 and the scribes
26:60 yet found they none
27:35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted My garments among them, and upon MY vesture did they cast lots
28:2 from the door
28:9 as they went to tell His disciples
(more to come)
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
Mark
1:14 Of the kingdom
1:42 as soon as He had spoken
3:5 whole as the other
3:15 to heal sicknesses, and
6:11 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment,
than for that city
6:33 and came together unto Him
6:36 for they have nothing-
7:2 they found fault
7:8 as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do
8:9 they that had eaten
8:26 nor tell it to any in the town
9:38 and he followeth not us
9:45 into the fire that never shall be quenched
9:49 and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt
10:7 and cleave to his wife
10:21 take up the cross
10:24 them that trust in riches
11:8 and strawed them in the way
11:10 in the name of the Lord
11:23 whatsoever he saith
12:23 therefore, when they shall rise
12:29 of all the commandments
12:30 this is the first commandment
12:33 and with all the soul
13:11 neither do ye premeditate
13:14 spoken of by Daniel the prophet
14:19 and another said, Is it I?
14:27 because of Me this night
14:68 and the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crew
14:70 and thy speech agreeth thereto
15:3 but He answered nothing

Luke
1:28 blessed art thou among women
1:29 when she saw him
2:42 up to Jerusalem
4:4 but by every word of God
4:8 Get thee behind Me, Satan
4.18 to heal the brokenhearted
5:38 and both are preserved
7:31 And the Lord said
8:43 had spent all her living upon physicians
8:45 and they that were with Him
8:45 and sayest thou, Who touched -Me?
8:48 be of good comfort
8:54 put them all out, and
9:10 a desert place
9:54 even as Elias did?
9:55 and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of
9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them
11:2 Which art in heaven
11:2 Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth
11:4 but deliver us from evil
11:11 bread of any of you ... will he give him a stone ? -- or if he ask
11:44 scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites
11:54 that they might accuse Him
12:39 he would have watched, and
17:9 him? I trow not
18:24 that he was very sorrowful
19:45 therein, and them that bought
20:13 when they see him
20:23 Why tempt ye Me?
20:30 took her to wife, and he died childless
22:31 And the Lord said
22:64 they struck Him on the face
22:68 Me, nor let Me go
23:23 and of the chief priests
23:38 written . . . in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew
24:1 and certain others with them
24:42 and of an honeycomb
24:46 and thus it behoved

John
1:27 is preferred before me
3:1 Which is in heaven
3:15 should not perish, but
5:3 waiting for the moving of the water
5:16 and sought to slay Him
6:11 to the disciples, and the disciples
6:22 that one whereinto. His disciples were entered
6:47 on Me
8:9 being convicted by their own conscience
8:9 even unto the last
8:10 and saw none but the woman
8:10 those thine accusers?
8:59 going through the midst of them, and so passed by
9:6 of the blind man
10:26 as I said unto you
11:41 where the dead was laid
12:1 which had been dead
16:16 because I go to the Father
17:12 in the world
19:16 and led Him away

Acts
1:14 omit - and supplication
1:15 change disciples to brethren (NASB) or believers (no Greek text, NIV)
2:7 omit - "all" and also "one to another"
2:23 omit "ye have taken"
2:30 according to the flesh, He would raise up Christ
2:42 omit "gladly"
2:47 omit "to the church"
3:6 omit - "rise up and"
3:11 the lame man which was healed
3:20 change "before was preached" to "appointed for you" (NASB)
3:22 omit "unto the fathers"
3:25 change "our fathers" to "your fathers"
4:24 omit - "thou art God"
6:3 omit - "Holy"
7:30 omit "of the Lord"
7:32 omit "of God" two of the four times
7:37 omit - "the Lord your" and "Him shall ye hear"
7:38 change "unto us" to "unto you" (NASB)
8:12 omit - "the things"
8:18 omit "Holy"
9:5 omit "the Lord said"
9:5 it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks
9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt Thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him
9:20 change "Christ" to "Jesus"
10:6 he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do
10:7 omit - unto Cornelius
10:11 omit - knit
10:12 and wild beasts
10:21 which were sent unto him froth Cornelius
10:30 omit - fasting
10:32 who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee,
11:9 omit "me"
11:11 change "I was" to "we were" (NASB) NIV has "I was"
11:22 omit "that he should go"
11:25 omit Barnabas (NASB) in NIV
12:20 omit Herod (NASB) in NIV
12:24 changes God to Lord (NASB) NIV has God
13:33 change "us their children" NIV is OK, to "to our children" (NASB)
13:42 the Jews out, of the synagogue, and the Gentiles
13:44 change "of God" to "of the Lord"
14:17 change "our hearts" to "your hearts"
15:18 unto God are all His, works
15:23 omit "after this manner"
15:24 saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law
15:33 change "the apostles" to "those who had sent them"
15:36 change "our brethren" to "the brethren"
15:40 change "God" to "Lord"
16:10 change "the Lord" to "God"
16:13 change "city" to "gate"
16:17 change - "shew unto US the way of salvation" to "show YOU the way..."
17:5 omit "which believed not"
17:18 omit "unto them"
17:26 omit "blood"
17:27 change "the Lord" to "God"
18:1 change "Paul" NIV OK, to "he" NASB
18:20 omit "with them" NIV is OK, NASB omits
18:21 1 must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem
18:25 change "Lord" to "Jesus"
19:4 omit "Christ"
19:10 omit "Jesus"
19:13 change "WE adjure you" to "I adjure you"
19:37 change "your goddess" to "our goddess"
20:4 omit "into Asia"
20:7 change "the disciples" to "we"
20:8 change "they were" to "we were"
20:15 and tarried at Trogyllium
20:24 omit "with joy"
20:25 omit "of God"
20:32 omit "brethren"
21:8 that were of Paul's company
21:20 change "the Lord" to "God"
21:22 the multitude must needs come together. for
21:25 that they observe no such thing, save only
22:3 omit "verily"
22:9 and were afraid
22:16 change "name of the Lord" to "his name"
22:20 unto his death
22:26 omit "Take heed"
22:30 omit "from his bands"
23:6 change "a Pharisee" to "Pharisees"
23:9 let us not fight against God
23:15 omit "tomorrow"
23:30 omit "the Jews"
23:30 omit "Farewell"
23:34 change "the governor" (NIV OK) to "he" NASB
24:15 omit "of the dead"
24:26 that he might loose him
25:6 change "ten days" to "8 or 10 days"
25:16 omit "to die"
26:15 change "he" to "the Lord"
26:30 And when he had thus spoken
28:1 change "they knew" to "we knew"
28:16 the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard

Romans
1:16 Omits of Christ
8:1 who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit
9:28 in righteousness. because a short work
10:15 preach the gospel of peace
11:6 But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work
13:9 Thou shalt not bear false witness
14:6 he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it
14:21 or is offended, or is made weak
15:24 1 will come to you
15:29 of the gospel

I Corinthians
6:20 and in your spirit, which are God's
10:28 for the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof
11:24 Take, eat

Galatians
3:1 that ye should not obey the truth

Ephesians
3:14 of our Lord Jesus Christ
5:30 of His flesh, and of His bones

Philippians
3:16 by the same rule, let us mind the same thing

Colossians
1:2 and the Lord Jesus Christ
1:14 through His blood
3:6 on the children of disobedience

I Thessalonians
1:1 from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ

I Timothy
3:3 not greedy of filthy lucre
6:5 from such withdraw thyself
6:7 it is certain

Hebrews
2:7 and didst set him over the works of Thy hands
3:6 firm unto the end
7:21 after the order of Melchisedec
8-12 and their iniquities
10:30 saith the Lord
10:34 in heaven
11:11 was delivered of a child
11:13 and were persuaded of them
12:20 or thrust through with a dart

I Peter
1:22 through the Spirit
4:3 of our life
4:14 on their part He is evil spoken of, but on your part He is glorified

2 Peter
1:21 omit "holy" from "holy men of God"
2:17 "for ever" omitted from "mist of darkness is reserved for ever"
3:10 in the night

I John
4:3 Christ is come in the flesh
5:13 and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God

Revelation

1:8 the Beginning and the Ending
1:11 I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Lost: and
1:11 which are in Asia
5:14 Him that liveth for ever and ever
11:1 and the angel stood
11: 17 and art to come
14:5 before the throne of God
15:2 over his mark
21:24 of them which are saved
(more to come)
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
Difference that Affect the Meaning

Matthew
1:25 Omit: her firstborn
5:22 Omit: without a cause
6:1 righteousness, in place of, alms
6:4 Omit: openly
6:6 Omit: openly
6:18 Omit: openly
9:36 harassed, in place' of, fainted
16:3 Omit: 0 ye hypocrites
17:20 little faith, in place of, unbelief
19:16 Omit: Good
19:17 Why askest thou Me concerning the good? One is good, in place of, Why callest thou Me good? There is none _good but one, that is, God
20:26 it is not, in place of, it shall not be
20:34 Omit: their eyes (received sight)
22:7 Omit: heard
23:19 Omit: fools and
24:7 Omit: and pestilences;
24:36 Add: neither the Son (but My Father)
24:48 Omit: his coming
25:31 Omit: holy
26:28 Omit: new
26:59 Omit: and elders
27:34 wine, in place Of, vinegar
27:42 Omit: If
27:64 Omit: by night

Mark
1:2 Isaiah the prophet, in place of' the prophets.
2:16 of the, in place of, and (Pharisees)
2:16 Omit: How is it
2:17 Omit: to repentance
2:22 Omit: is spilled
3:29 sin, in place of, damnation
4:11 Omit: to know
5:36 having disregarded, in place of, as soon as (Jesus) heard
7:14 again, in place of, all
7:31 through, in place of, and (Sidon)
8:1 again, in place of, very
9:25 he saw distinctly, in place of, made him look
9:29 Omit: and fasting
10:43 it is not so, in place of so shall it not be
12.4 Omit: they cast stones
12:4 Omit: sent . . . away
13:8 Omit: and troubles
13:33 Omit: and pray
14:22 Omit: eat (this is)
14:24 Omit: new
14:51 Omit: the young men
14:65 received, in place of, did strike
15:8 coming up, in place of, crying aloud
15:39 Omit: He so cried out

Luke
2:14 Men of good will, in place of, good will toward men
2:22 their, in place of, her (purification)
4:1 in, in place of, into (the wilderness)
6:48 because it was well built, in place of, for it was
founded upon a rock
7:28 Omit: prophet
9:35 chosen, in place of, beloved (Son)
9:48 is, in place of, shall be (great)
11:53 went out thence, in place of, said these things unto them
12:18 the wheat, in place of, my fruits
14:5 son, in place of, ass
16:9 it shall fail, in place of , ye fail
17:3 Omit: against thee
21:36 may have strength, in place of, may be accounted worthy'
23:15 he sent Him bock to us, in place of, I sent you to him
23:39 not, in place of, If
23:45 failed (or eclipsed) in place of, darkened
24:17 stood, in place of are (sad)

John
1:16 Because, in place of, And (of His)
1:51 Omit: Hereafter
6:65 Omit: My
6:69 the Holy One of God, in place of, that Christ, the Son
of the living God
8:28 Omit: My
8:38 Omit: My
9:4 We, in place of, I
10:32 Omit: My
12:7 in order that she may keep, in place of, hath she kept
12:47 keep, in place of, believe
13:18 My bread, in place of, bread with Me
14:28 Omit: My
16: 10 Omit: my
17:17 Omit: Thy (truth)
18:40 Omit: all
20:17 Omit: My (Father: but go)

Acts
2:1 together, in place of, with one accord
3:20 foreordained, in place of, preached
5:16 Omit: unto
6:8 grace, in place of, faith
6:13 Omit: blasphemous
9:25 Add: his (disciples)
10:16 immediately, in place of, again
10:30 Omit: fasting
13:19-20 He divided by lot their land about 450 years, and after
these things, He gave judges, in place of, He divided their land to them by lot. And after that He gave them judges about the space of 450 years
13:45 Omit: contradicting and
15:23 Omit: after this manner
15:25 having chosen, in place- of, chosen
16:13 we supposed, in place of, was wont
17:5 Omit: which believed not
17:26 Omit: blood
18:5 word, in place of, spirit
18:17 Omit: the Greeks
19:2 Omit: they said
19:40 Add: not (give an account.)
22:26 Omit: Take heed
23:12 Omit: certain of
23:15 Omit: to morrow
24:2 reforms, in place of, very worthy deeds
24:9 joined in attack, in place of, assented
25:6 Add: not (more than) eight or
25:15 condemnation, in place of, judgment
25:16 Omit: to die.

Romans
9:32 Omit: of the law

1 Corinthians
4:2 Here, in place of, Moreover
7:3 Omit: benevolence
7 :5 Omit: fasting and
7:38 marries his own virgin, in place of, giveth ... in marriage
7:38 marries not,. in place of, giveth her not in marriage
7:39 Omit: by the low
8:7 custom, in place of, conscience (of the idol)
9:21 of, in' place of, to (God) to (Christ)
9:22 Omit: as (weak)
9:23 all things, in place of, this
10:28 offered in sacrifice, in place of, offered in sacrifice unto idols
11:24 Omit: broken
11:29 Omit: unworthily
14:38 he is ignored, in place of, let him be ignorant

2 Corinthians
4:14 with, in place of, by
5:17 Omit: all things
12:19 Long ago, in place of, Again

Galatians
4:14 your, in place of, my (temptation)
5:19 Omit: Adultery
5:21 Omit: murders

Ephesians
3:9 administration, in place of, fellowship
4:9 Omit: first
4:17 Omit: other
5:9 light, in place of, Spirit

Philippians
4:23 your spirit, in place of, you all

Colossians
2:18 Omit: not
4:8 ye might know our, in place of, he might know your
4:12 fully assured, in place of, complete
4:13 labor, in place of, zeal

1 Thessalonians
2:15 Omit: their own
3:2 Omit: and ... fellow labourer

I Timothy
1:17 Omit: wise
3:3 omits “not greedy of filthy lucre”
4:10 strive, in place of, suffer reproach
4:12 omits “spirit”
5:4 Omit: good
5:16 Omit: man or
6:19 life that is, in place of, eternal life

2 Timothy
1:11 Omit: of the Gentiles
4:1 and, in place of, at

Titus
1:4 Omit: mercy

Philemon
v. 2 sister, in place of, beloved
v. 12 Omit: therefore receive

Hebrews
8:11 citizen, in place of neighbour
10:34 with prisoners, in place of, my bonds
12:7 For, in place of, If
13:21 Omit: work

James
1:19 Ye know, in place of, Wherefore
2:5 to the world, in place of, of this world
2:20 idle, in place of, dead
3:8 unsettled, in place of, unruly
3:12 neither does salt make water fresh, in place of, so no fountain both yield salt water and fresh
4:4 Omit: adulterers and
4:12 neighbor, in place of, another
4:14 Ye are, in place of, It is
5:5 Omit: as
5:16 sins, in place of, faults Peter
2:2 Add: (thereby) unto salvation
3:8 humble minded, in place of, courteous
3:13 zealous, in place of, followers
3:16 Omit: as of evildoers
4:1 Omit: for us
4:16 name, in place of, behalf
5:5 Omit: be subject
5:11 Omit: glory and

2 Peter
1:3 own, in place of, to (glory)
1:21 men from God, in place of, holy men of God
2:17 Omit: for ever
3:2 of your, in place of, of us the (apostles)
3:10 shall be detected, in place of, shall be burned up

I John
2:20 Ye all know, in place of, ye know all things
4:20 he cannot, in place of, how can he

2 John
v. 9 goes before, in place of, transgresseth

3 John
v. 8 sustain, in place of, receive

Jude
v. 1 beloved, in place of, sanctified
v. 5 all things, in place of, this
v. 19 Omit: themselves
v. 25 Omit: wise
v. 25 Add: before the whole age (both now and)

Revelation
1:5 loves, in place of, loved
1:6 a kingdom, in place of, kings and
2:3 Omit: hast laboured
2:9 Omit: works, and
2:13 Omit: thy works, and
2:15 in like manner, in place of, “which thing I hate”
2:20 Omit: a few things
2:22 her, in place of, their
2:24 to the, in place of, and (unto the rest)
3:5 thus, in place of, the same
4:6 Add: as (a sea of)
5:4 Omit: and to read
5:10 them, in place of, us
5:16 a kingdom, in place of, kings
5:10 they shall reign, in place of, we shall reign
6:6 Add: as (a voice)
6:17 their, in place of, His
8:7 Add: (earth) and a third part of the earth was burnt up
8:13 eagle, in place of, angel
12:12 Omit: the inhabiters
13:1 “he” stood in place of, I stood
13:10 Omit: leadeth
13:10 is to be killed, in place of, killeth
13:10 Omit: must
15:3 nations, in place of, saints
15:6 stone, in place of, linen
16:5 holy, in place of, shalt be
16:17 Omit: of heaven
17:8 shall be present, in place of, yet is
17:16 and, in place of, upon
18:20 saints and apostles, in place of, holy apostles
19:1 Add: as (a great voice)
19:1 Omit: and honour
19:17 the great supper of God, in place of, the supper of the great God
21:3 the throne, in place of, heaven
21:7 these things, in place of, all things
21:16 Omit: is as large
21:24 Omit: and honour
22:5 longer, in place of, there (and they)
22:6 spirits of the, in place of, holy
22:11 practice righteousness, in place of, be righteous
22:14 wash their robes, in place of, do His commandments
22:19 tree, in place of, book (of life)
22:21 “God’s people”, in place of, “you all”


Further omissions of the name of God, Lord, Jesus and Christ in the NIV

Matthew
6:33 of God
8:29 Jesus
13:36 Jesus
13:51 Lord
15:30 Jesus'
16:20 Jesus
17:11 Jesus
17:20 Jesus
18:2 Jesus
19:17 that is, God
21:12 of God
22:30 of God
22:32 God (is not)
23:8 even Christ
24:2 Jesus
25:13 wherein the Son of man cometh
28:6 the Lord

Mark
5:13 forthwith Jesus
6:34 Jesus
7:27 Jesus
9:24 with tears, Lord
11:10 in the name of the Lord
11:14 Jesus
12:27 God (of the living)


Luke
2:40 in Spirit
4:4 but by every word of God
4:41 Christ (the Son of God)
7:22 Jesus
7:31 And the Lord said
9:56 For the Son of man
9:57 omits "Lord"
12:31 His kingdom, in place of, kingdom of God
13:25 (Lord) Lord
21:4 of God
22:31 And the Lord said
23:42 Lord

John
4:16 Jesus
4:42 the Christ
4:46 Jesus
5:30 Father
6:39 Father's
6:69 that Christ
8:11 Lord
8:20 Jesus
8:29 the Father
9:35 man, in place of, God
16:16 because I go to the Father
19:38 omits “of Jesus” (took the body of Jesus””

Acts
2:30 according to the flesh, He Would raise up Christ
3:26 Jesus
4:24 God (which hast made)
7:30 of the Lord
7:32 God (of Isaac)
7:32 God (of Jacob)
7:37 Lord your
9:5 Lord said
9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord what wilt Thou have me to do?
9:6 And the Lord said unto him-
9:29 Jesus
15:11 Christ
15:18 unto God are all His works
16:31 Christ
19:4 Christ
19:10 Jesus
20:21 Christ
20:25 of God
22:16 His name, in place of, the name of the Lord
23:9 let us not fight against God

Romans
1:16 of Christ
6:11 our Lord
8:1 who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit
14:6 and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard
15:8 Jesus
15:19 of God
16:18 Jesus
16:20 Christ

1 Corinthians
1:14 God
5:4 Christ ...
5:4 ... Christ
5:5 Jesus
6:20 and in your spirit-, which are God's
9:1 Christ
9:18 of Christ
10:28 for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof
15:47 the Lord
16:22 Jesus
16:22 Christ
16:23 Christ
2 Corinthians
4:6 Jesus
4:10 Lord
5:18 Jesus
10:7 (so are we) Christ's
11:31 Christ

Galatians
3:17 in Christ
4:7 Christ
6:15 in Christ
6:15 Jesus
6:17 Lord

Ephesians
3:9 by Jesus
3:9 Christ
3:14 of our Lord
3:14 Jesus
3:14 Christ
5:9 light, in place of, Spirit

Philippians
2:30 Christ
3:16 “rule, let us mind the same thing”
4:13 Christ

Colossians
1:2 and the Lord Jesus Christ
1:28 Jesus
2:2 and of the Father

1 Thessalonians
1:1 from God
1:1 our Father
1:1 and the Lord
1:1 Jesus
1:1 Christ
3:11 Christ
3:13 Christ

2 Thessalonians
1:8 Christ
1:12 Christ (may be)
2:4 as God (sitteth in the temple)

1 Timothy
1:1 Lord
1:17 omits “wise” in “the only wise God”
2:7 in Christ
3:3 omits “not greedy of filthy lucre”
3:16 who, in place of, God
5:21 Lord

2 Timothy
4:1 the Lord
4:22 Jesus
4:22 Christ

Titus
1:4 Lord

Philemon
v. 6 Jesus

Hebrews
3:1 Christ
10: 9 omit "0 God"

1 Peter
1:22 through the Spirit
5:10 Jesus
5:14 Jesus

I John
1:7 Christ
3:2 Adds “and that is what we are”
4:3 Christ is come in the flesh.
4:19 omits “him” from “we love HIM”
5:13 and that ye may believe on the name of the Son
5:13 of God

2 John
v. 3 the Lord
v. 9 of Christ (he hath both the Father)

Jude
v. 4 God (and our Lord)

Revelation
1:8 The Beginning
1:8 and The Ending
1:9 Christ ...
1:9 . . . Christ
1:11 I am Alpha
1:11 and Omega
1:11 the First
1:11 and the Last
12:17 Christ
14:5 before the throne of God
16:5 0 Lord
19:1 Lord
20:9 from God
20:12 the throne, in place of, God
21:4 God
22:19 change “book of life” to “tree of life”
22:19 omit “from the things”
22:21 omits “our” “Christ” and changes “you all” to “God’s people”

So, do you STILL think that all bible versions are 99.5% the same?

Here is another site that shows what has been omitted from most modern versions, primarily because of two conflicting (even with each other) manuscripts called Vaticanus and Sinaiticus - Modern Bible Versions

Will Kinney

Return to Articles - articles - Another King James Bible Believer
 
Upvote 0

AVBunyan

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2003
1,131
74
70
Visit site
✟17,676.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Hey folks – do you even know where your modern versions came from?

In the 3rd century AD there was a heathen school of philosophers in Alexandria, Egypt headed up by a lost heathen philosopher named Origen. He didn’t believe the fundamentals of the faith. He didn’t believe in the deity of Christ or in Christ’s return - he believed in salvation by works and a few other heresies. He got a hold of the Hebrew Old testament and decided to make a Greek translation of his own based upon his heretical views. He used Classical Greek to create his translation. (Classical Greek is a fancy, hard to read Greek instead of the simple, easier to read Koine Greek the Antioch manuscripts were based on.) After completion he heard that there was a now a Greek NT circulating in Asia Minor – he got a hold of that and created his own Greek NT in Classical Greek. When Constantine got his church going he ordered 50 copies of Origen’s works/bibles. Your modern versions are based upon Vaticanus and Siniacticus which are based upon Origen’s works and some believe could be from the original 50 bibles Constantine ordered!

Your modern versions came from these manuscripts produced by Origen. So folks, do you want to read “bibles” based upon the works of a lost, heathen philosopher? Revivals are not associated with this line.

The AV came from Asia Minor and was written in Koine Greek. Revivals are associated with this line.

All your versions all read alike – the AV reads differently. Two different lines of manuscripts – and one came from Asia Minor (the AV) - one came from Egypt (your new versions). One line is right - one line is wrong.

Now you can see why the differences Will documented above - Origen had an agenda - subtly introduce false doctrine in books and call them bibles so you folks will read them. There is just enough truth in there to get you to read them and while you are there you get the trash.

I do not expect you to believe the above but that is between you and God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TR23

Newbie
Apr 22, 2010
111
2
✟7,760.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If someone wants to make a reasonable case for the KJV as the most authoritative source, then they best stick to things like history and comparative word studies to make their case.

Because I see a lot of KJV advocates that merely fall back on appeals to emotion, and simple fearmongering based on bible quotations which are meant to imply that everything besides the KJV is the work of satan meant to decieve.

I'm sure that when the bible was first translated into english from latin, the catholic church was quoting the same scriptures to shut down the heretics who would dare corrupt god's word by being translated into anything but Latin.

Afterall, it's too risky to allow all the countries of europe to willy nilly start translating their own texts - Who knows what could happen.
Only the original latin vulgate could be trusted as inspired.
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
If someone wants to make a reasonable case for the KJV as the most authoritative source, then they best stick to things like history and comparative word studies to make their case.

Hi TR, Well, the sovereignty of God in history clearly testifies that His hand in on the King James Bible like no other Bible in history. As for word studies, I have lots of them where I show the King James Bible is far more accurate than the Bible Babble Buffet versions that are so popular today.

Here is one you might find interesting. I call it "You better hope your Surgeon is not a Modern Versionist" A bit of humor but it gets the point across.

Surgeon modern version - Another King James Bible Believer

Because I see a lot of KJV advocates that merely fall back on appeals to emotion, and simple fearmongering based on bible quotations which are meant to imply that everything besides the KJV is the work of satan meant to decieve.

I'm sure that when the bible was first translated into english from latin, the catholic church was quoting the same scriptures to shut down the heretics who would dare corrupt god's word by being translated into anything but Latin.

Afterall, it's too risky to allow all the countries of europe to willy nilly start translating their own texts - Who knows what could happen.
Only the original latin vulgate could be trusted as inspired.

And your point is? Are you trying that old "Latin Vulgate only" thingy and trying to equate it to King James Bible only? If so, I have some info you may not be aware of.

By the way, do you believe there exists or ever existed such a thing as a complete, inspired and 100% true Bible in any language? Yes, No, I dunno, or Who cares? What do you think?

Gracias,

Will Kinney
 
Upvote 0

Jig

Christ Follower
Oct 3, 2005
4,529
399
Texas
✟15,714.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
King James Bible is far more accurate than...

What is this "accuracy" measured against?

By the way, do you believe there exists or ever existed such a thing as a complete, inspired and 100% true Bible in any language? Yes, No, I dunno, or Who cares? What do you think?
Both the KJV and the NASB (for example) carry the infallible authority of God's word. Neither carry the precise actual words of God.
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
Originally Posted by brandplucked
King James Bible is far more accurate than...
What is this "accuracy" measured against?



By the way, do you believe there exists or ever existed such a thing as a complete, inspired and 100% true Bible in any language? Yes, No, I dunno, or Who cares? What do you think?
Both the KJV and the NASB (for example) carry the infallible authority of God's word. Neither carry the precise actual words of God.

Hi Jig, nice to hear from you again. The KJB and the NASB are based on totally different texts in literally thousands of places, so to say that both of them somehow carry "the infallible authority of God's word" is patently absurd and robs words "infallible authority" of all meaning.

God either said specific words, phrases and whole verses or He didn't. You cannot have it both ways and claim that both are "infallible authority". At least not with a sound mind and using the God given laws of human logic.

The NASB teaches that mortal man deceived God in Psalm 78:36. That specific verse teaches us something about the very nature of God Himself. It's called Theology. Is that verse in the NASB God's infallible authority?

For a fuller development of this verse see -
Eze14:9; Ps 78:36deceive - Another King James Bible Believer

The NASB omits numerous entire verses from the New Testament depending on which NASB you happen to have, or else places them in [brackets] indicating doubt as to their authority (i.e. Matthew 17:21; 18:10; 23:14, Mark 16:9-20, Acts 8:37, 1 John 5:7) and ADDS words not found in any Hebrew text (Judges 16:13 - adds about 32 words from the so called Septuagint, and many other examples -
NIV, NASB reject Hebrew - Another King James Bible Believer

As for your question about How do we judge accuracy, I think the way we can do that is whenever it happens that both the KJB and the NASB are translating from the same underlying Hebrew or Greek texts, then we can get a pretty good idea about which one is more accurate.

For example, did you by any chance read the article I wrote about Better Hope your Surgeon is Not a Modern Versionist?

It gives many examples right there showing how the KJB and the NASB have translated the same words, and the KJB is far more accurate in every case. Plus the KJB is far more accurate with all its "thee's, thou's, thine's and ye's (which you never did get around to addressing)

You might try reading Better Hope your Surgeon is not a Modern Versionist and then get back to us on it.

Here is the link again -
Surgeon modern version - Another King James Bible Believer

God bless,

All of grace, believing The Book,

Will Kinney
 
Upvote 0

TR23

Newbie
Apr 22, 2010
111
2
✟7,760.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Your KJV only belief is no different than the Latin Vulgate only belief that preceded it.

If you were really concerned about getting to the roots of the text you'd reject anything but the original greek readings of the byzantine texts that the KJV is based on.

Instead you're basically claiming that because the KJV is the only inspired text in existance, everyone around the world has no alternative but to learn ye olde english.
Nevermind the fact that the KJV doesn't even accurately convey all the meaning behind the greek and hebrew texts, as a deeper understanding of the text can only be extracted by doing bible word studies.

If you want to advocate KJV only, you're going to have to do it on the basis of purely a scholarly analysis of the textus receptus to demonstrate why the KJV most accurately conveys the original meaning better than any other translation.
And that's simply not something you're going to be able to do on the whole, as many things are better represented in the NSAB than the KJV.

All too often I see KJV advocates not even doing that, but simply pointing out scripture changes as being self evidently wrong simply because they disagree with the KJV, without actually showing why the KJV is a superior translation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
Your KJV only belief is no different than the Latin Vulgate only belief that preceded it.

Hi TR. It looks like you have not read all the posts in this thread but have just jumped into the middle of it and started posting you very confused biblical agnosticism, i.e. trying to defend the NKJV and NASB at the same time (not a good idea:D

If you really want to know how your "Latin Vulgate" argument turns out, this has already been brought up and answered. Try going back to page 11 of this thread and look at post # 101. There you will see how your Latin Vulgate argument works out for you.

Will Kinney
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
If you were really concerned about getting to the roots of the text you'd reject anything but the original greek readings of the byzantine texts that the KJV is based on.

Is that what you do, TR? Do you "reject anything but the original Greek readings that the King James Bible is based on"? Yes, or No? Or are you just blowing smoke?

If Yes, then why in the world are you trying to defend the NASB at the same time as the NKJV? Do you even know what you are talking about here?

Instead you're basically claiming that because the KJV is the only inspired text in existance, everyone around the world has no alternative but to learn ye olde english.

I never said nor do I believe that every one around the world has to learn the English of the King James Bible. The gospel is still found in any bible out there no matter how many thousands of words it may be missing or how poorly it may be translated. Besides, there are many very good Bibles out there like the Italian Diodati 1991, the Spanish Reina Valera of 1909 or the 2004 Reina Valera Gomez in Spanish, or the French Ostervald of 1996 that are TR based and Hebrew based bibles.


Nevermind the fact that the KJV doesn't even accurately convey all the meaning behind the greek and hebrew texts, as a deeper understanding of the text can only be extracted by doing bible word studies.

Would you like to give us an example?

If you want to advocate KJV only, you're going to have to do it on the basis of purely a scholarly analysis of the textus receptus to demonstrate why the KJV most accurately conveys the original meaning better than any other translation.
And that's simply not something you're going to be able to do on the whole, as many things are better represented in the NSAB than the KJV.

Now here is where you reveal your utter confusion. IF you are a TR man, then why do you recommend the ever changing NASB? It is not based on the TR and the NASBs keep on changing their English texts (the 1995 NASB has omitted some 7000 words that were in the 1977 NASB) and they keep changing both their underlying Hebrew and Greek texts and the NASB frequently rejects the Hebrew readings and adds to them from the so called Septuagint. Please make up your mind for us. Where exactly can we find this infallible Bible you apparently want us to think you believe in?

All too often I see KJV advocates not even doing that, but simply pointing out scripture changes as being self evidently wrong simply because they disagree with the KJV, without actually showing why the KJV is a superior translation.

TR, did you actually read anything I posted before? It sure doesn't look like it. When you bible agnostic fellas post a link or a reply of some kind, I actually take the time to look at the link or read what they say. It would be nice if you did the same.

Did you actually take the time to look at the article I mentioned about "Better Hope your Surgeon is not a Modern Versionist"?

Surgeon modern version - Another King James Bible Believer

Or do you know the difference between that "olde English" use of the words like "thee, thine, thou" and "you, your, and ye"? And why in this case the English language of the King James Bible is far more accurate than either your NASB or NKJV with their generic "you"? Do you know the answer to this one, TR?

Thanks,

Will Kinney
 
Upvote 0

TR23

Newbie
Apr 22, 2010
111
2
✟7,760.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
1. All I see on page 10 is Jig giving a very good outline of why the KJV only arguments are exactly the same as what were used for the vulgate only.
You believe that the KJV is superior because it never changes and has been around a long time. The same argument that was used for the vulgate.
You believe the KJV is an inspired translation that actually corrects errors of all the diverse texts and settles any disagreements between them, the same argument that was made for the vulgate.

2. I don't have to give you a version that is the definitive inspired text because I'm not the one claiming that such a text exists.
Only the originals would qualify for that title.


3. The KJV fails in accuracy on many areas, for two different reasons.
One is that our understanding of words has changed, so that the KJV words no longer accurately convey meaning to us today.
Second, is that the original greek had many subtle meanings that aren't accurately or fully conveyed in the KJV. And even the NASB doesn't properly convey everything all the time, which is why a new living or amplified translation is necessary for an english reader to extract the full meaning of a text without having to become an ancient greek scholar.

The KJV is guilty of being too vague in it's treatment of words, taking a diverse set of hebrew and greek words but giving them all the same english word. The full and proper meaning cannot be extracted from the translation without turning to hebrew and greek word studies.

One example:
Matthrew 28:20
The word is aion, which should properly be translated as age according to our usage of english.

Example of outdated word usage that conveys a false meaning
Philippians 4:6
One who reads the KJV in modern english would conclude that we are not to be careful about anything, which implies recklessness rather than being without anxiety.

Example of outdated word usage that makes the text incomprehensible
II Thessalonians 2:7
Letteth isn't even a word anymore. A comtemporary synonym has to be put in there, restrain.




If you want to make a case for the textus receptus being more reliable than the critical text, then go for it. But to claim the KJV is the only valid translation that can ever come out of the textus receptus for all time is absurd.

What can be done, and should be done, is to look a the textus receptus and make make a more scholarly accurate and up to date translation of it's text.

Otherwise you had best be advocating that everyone learn koine greek so that they can read the textus receptus directly without any room for translation problems.
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
1. All I see on page 10 is Jig giving a very good outline of why the KJV only arguments are exactly the same as what were used for the vulgate only.

Well, Tr, that may well be what you see on page 10, but I did not say page 10. I said page 11. Here is what I wrote. Just back up a couple of posts and you will see it there.

"If you really want to know how your "Latin Vulgate" argument turns out, this has already been brought up and answered. Try going back to page 11 of this thread and look at post # 101. There you will see how your Latin Vulgate argument works out for you."

Will K
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
2. I don't have to give you a version that is the definitive inspired text because I'm not the one claiming that such a text exists.
Only the originals would qualify for that title."

So, in other words, you yourself do not believe that any Bible in any language on this earth is or ever was the complete (66 books in one volume), inspired and 100% true words of God. Why am I not at all surprised at this:D

TR, you are left with no Standard and no sure words of God. You were just blowing smoke when you talked about the Greek texts that underlie the King James Bible, weren't you.

So, here you come along with a non-existent, invisible and imaginary "originals only" point of view, professing a faith in something that you know (or at least should know if you really knew anything at all about what you are talking about) does not exist and you have never seen. Hint - there are no originals. You really should read through all of the posts leading up to this point before you say anything else embarrassing. You are just rehashing things that you get from all the bible agnostic sites out there, and we have already covered many of them here in this thread.

You look to be more than a little misinformed when you keep bringing up points we have already covered.


3. The KJV fails in accuracy on many areas, for two different reasons.One is that our understanding of words has changed, so that the KJV words no longer accurately convey meaning to us today.
Second, is that the original greek had many subtle meanings that aren't accurately or fully conveyed in the KJV.

TR, this is just more poorly thought out foolishness. You tell us on one hand that "words have changed" (and a few - very few - have, I admit) but then refer us to either your non existent and invisible "the original Greek" (which of course you do not have and have never seen a day in your life). Apparently you are blissfully unaware that N.T. Greek is an archaic form of Greek. It is not like modern Greek, and it is far, far more difficult to learn and master than any of the handful of "archaic" words you might run into in the King James Bible.

Nevertheless, in spite of having NO foundation for your beliefs (those non existent originals), and in spite of your blatant and unthinking hypocrisy in suggesting that some KJB English words are too hard to understand, but apparently your "original Greek" is not, you forge onward in your senseless criticisms of God's Book. You continue:

The KJV is guilty of being too vague in it's treatment of words, taking a diverse set of hebrew and greek words but giving them all the same english word. The full and proper meaning cannot be extracted from the translation without turning to hebrew and greek word studies.

One example:
Matthrew 28:20
The word is aion, which should properly be translated as age according to our usage of english.

Well, my dear TR, the case is much as I suspected all along. You really do not have a clue what you are talking about, do you? Do your NKJV, NASB, NIV ever translate this word aion as "world"? Have you bothered to check them out?

You tell us that we need to "go to the original Greek" thingies, and yet numerous and far more capable Bible translators than you or I have "gone to the Greek" and they have come up with the very thing you condemn and criticize. It looks to me, my friend, that you have made your own mind you final authority and do not even have a printed bible in any language that you agree with.

Perhaps you should just go all the way and make up your own bible translation that you can feel happy about. Who knows? In these wacky days, it just might sell.

Now, go check out your NKJV, NASB, NIV, ESV, RV, ASV or whatever you want, and see if they also have translated the word aion as "world", OK?

Your other examples are just as silly, and I don't feel like trying to argue any more for the moment with a man who does not have nor believe in any Bible as the infallible words of God.

Happy hunting,

Will Kinney
 
Upvote 0