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Every generation claims the second coming in its time.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by rdcast, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. contrabar

    contrabar Junior Member

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    remember, people... God has told us EVERYTHING beforehand.

    God has never let His people be in the dark, especially when it comes to eschatology
     
  2. rdcast

    rdcast Regular Member

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    :amen: Dear brother!
    We have been 2,000 years with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. How dark and desperate the world before then. The Good Shepherd looks for all who are lost, even now. Wonderful is His determination that none should perish who were written in the Book of Life before time. Yes, this has fixed the number of sheep the Good Shepherd will find.

    John 10:7-18
    (English Standard Version)
    [7]So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. [8]All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. [9]I am the door. If anyone enters by me he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. [10]The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. [11]I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. [12]He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. [13]He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. [14]I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, [15]just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16]And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. [17]For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. [18]No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."
     
  3. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    I can agree with that. :)
    Of course my observation is presented as a theory and not as a fact. But it is a theory that is based on the fact that Adam is said to have lived for 130 years before he had Seth (Gen 5:3).

    I take this to mean that Adam was 130 years old since the moment he was created from dust and breathed with life. So his garden life could have been as long as 100 years old, since Cain, Abel, and Seth were all born after the expulsion.
    It looks like where we disagree on this is in your theory presenting this "Resurrection-Salvation" as being at the end of the 4th God-day whereas my theory presents it as being in the middle of the 4th God-day.

    I guess we all will know for sure in the year 2027AD or the year 2527AD. Hope to meet you there in any case. :wave:
     
  4. rdcast

    rdcast Regular Member

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    Please, let's not over look the importance of the Tree of Life in both the Garden and the Millennium. It represents Life-Everlasting. It is plain that all who lived in the Garden and/or the Millennium haven't time Bering on them by virtue of this life sustaining tree.The 130yrs you speak of is included in Adam's total lifespan of 930yrs. The counting of years is only relevant after the Garden but before the Millennium. This is the period of mortality of man, when the curse is in affect. Plus, read it as it should be, 930yrs fits nicely within the 1 God-day period or 1,000 man-years, serving to provide us with an effective map of God's calendar for His will toward man.


    Here, you provide a most compelling argument that I'm taking most seriously. As the title of this thread would suggest, I'm very suspicious of anyone foretelling the Second Coming arriving in their life time. It happens to be an irresistible vanity that I myself must deal with.
     
  5. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    Correct. And Jesus is that Life-Everlasting:

    And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life (1 John 5:11-12).

    From my observation Life-Everlasting comes through our personal relationship with Christ which is by faith. Adam had no such relationship.
    And the LORD God said..."He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever" (Gen 3:22).

    From my observation the Tree of Life had no effect on Adam's life at all. He did not even touch it, far less eat of it to live forever.
     
  6. rdcast

    rdcast Regular Member

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    Doveaman, yes, Adam and Eve did have a very close relationship with God and as we both know, it's impossible to have a relationship with God and not with Jesus, so Jesus was in the Garden with them and as scripture allows, they could eat of EVERY tree in the Garden except the forbidden tree. That does not exclude the Tree of Life. How the Tree of Life is Jesus is a mystery, tho in the Millennium, Jesus is in His Kingdom on the new earth and the Trees of Life are literal trees lining the pure water of life flowing out of the Throne and of the Lamb.

    Revelation 22:1-3 (New International Version)
    [1]Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb [2]down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. [3]No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

    As far as the verse you sited, it is affirmation that Adam and Eve had been eating of the Tree of Life until their first sin. No longer would they be allowed to live forever, so the Tree of Life suddenly was denied them.

    Genesis 3:22 (New International Version)
    [22]And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

    So they had been living forever until "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil". That was the tip-off that man had to leave the Garden, once having lost Life-Everlasting.
    It is most vividly clear, Mr. Doveaman, that the counting of Adam's years didn't start until the day he ate of the forbidden tree. So, as I have clearly set before you, the first day of 1,000 man-years started at the instant of man's first sin, having no longer access to the Life Everlasting Tree of Life!

    Love you my brother and good-night.
     
  7. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    To me, it seemed more like the beginning of a very close relationship since Adam and Eve were not yet Spirit filled and Spirit led, therefore they had no Spirit Life (Life-Everlasting).

    So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven (1 Cor 15:45-47).
    I find it strange how anyone can have “Life-Everlasting” and lose it. Isn’t “Life-Everlasting” a life that last forever? Doesn’t “Life-Everlasting” mean you live forever? How can you lose a life that last forever if you already have Everlasting-Life?
    I also find it strange that “Adam's years didn't start until the day he ate of the forbidden tree” when the bible clearly states that “When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son” (Gen 5:3).

    If “Adam had lived 130 years” then Adam had lived to 130 years from the moment he had lived, from the very moment he was created from dust and life was breathed into him so he could live.
    Well, just remember this while you are at it:

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it? (Jer 17:9).

    My point is that if there is no scripture to support our belief it can easily lead to deception.
    Even if this was true and Christ Resurrection-Salvation did indeed occur 3,500 years later (3 ½ God-days, or a time and times and half a time), as my theory suggests, then 2,000 years later, the year 2027AD, would only be 5,500 years (5 ½ God-days) from man’s first sin, with another 500 years to go before the 6th God-day ends and the 7th God-day begins in the year 2527AD.

    Consider the history of the Children of Israel:

    The children of Israel lived in Egypt for 430 years (Exo 12:40-41).

    Joseph became governor in Egypt when he was 30 years old (Gen 41:46).

    The rest of the children of Israel came to live in Egypt soon after Joseph became governor (Gen 45:9-10).

    Joseph’s governorship lasted for 80 years until he died at the age of 110 (Gen 50:26).

    Soon after Joseph died the children of Israel were enslaved in Egypt (Exo 1:6-11).

    Of those 430 years in Egypt the children of Israel lived in freedom under Joseph for about 80 years.

    And of those 430 years in Egypt, after Joseph died, the children of Israel lived in slavery for the remaining 350 years (a time and times and half a time) until they were delivered by God through Moses.

    That is 80 years in freedom + 350 years in slavery = 430 years in Egypt.

    The children of Israel lived in slavery for about 350 years until they were finally delivered through Moses in the midst of the 4th generation:

    Then the LORD said to him (Abraham), "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated (for about) four hundred years.

    But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out...In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here..." (Gen 15:13-16).

    God intervened in the fourth generation through Moses to deliver the children of Israel from 350 years of slavery in Egypt.

    We know that God delivering the children of Israel through Moses from slavery in Egypt is also a physical type of God delivering the children of Adam through Christ from the slavery of sin:

    For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea...

    These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come (1 Cor 10:1-11).

    In my theory, after Adam sinned his children entered into the slavery of sin for about 3 to 4 of Adam’s generations – for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation (Ex 20:5) – an Adam generation being 1000 years, or one God-day.

    This makes out 3 to 4 of Adam’s generations, then, to be about 3,500 years, or 3 ½ God-days (a time and times and half a time), after which the children of Adam were finally delivered through Christ in the middle of the 4th generation, or 4th God-day:

    “For He says: ‘In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.’ Behold, now is the accepted time (the 4th generation); behold, now is the day of salvation (the 4th God-day)” when “Messiah shall be cut off (through Death/Resurrection), but not for Himself...in the middle of the week...” (2 Cor 6:2, Dan 9:26-27).

    Also notice:

    In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure." (Gen 15:16).

    In this way they always fill up the measure of their sins. (1 Thess 2:16).

    Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers! (Matt 23:32).

    Then the angel who was speaking to me came forward and said to me, "Look up and see what this is that is appearing." I asked, "What is it?" He replied, "It is a measuring basket." And he added, "This is the iniquity of the people throughout the land." (Zech 5:5-6).

    It seems to me that there is a measurement of time in which God allows sin to run a full course through human iniquity, suffering, and death until the sin has reached its full measure of time, after which God intervenes to deliver.

    In my theory, this measurement of time is the said 3 ½ periods of time, or a time and times and half a time, which I also believe is connected to “God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation (for a time and times and half a time), but showing mercy to thousands” in the fourth generation at the end of the said 3 to 4 periods of time.

    The LORD said to him (Abraham), "Know for certain that your descendants...will be enslaved and mistreated (for a time and times and half a time) ...and afterward they will come out...In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here..." (Gen 15:13-16).

    “Behold, now is the accepted time (the 4th generation); behold, now is the day of salvation (the 4th God-day)” (2 Cor 6:2).
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2009
  8. rdcast

    rdcast Regular Member

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    Beelzebub had Life-Everlasting but lost it. Life-Everlasting presides in God's Kingdom, whether it's in Heaven, on the New Earth or in the Garden. These are the known places where Life-Everlasting occurs. When you leave these places or are cast out in the case of Beelzebub, the benefit of Life-Everlasting is lost. Before you point out that Beelzebub has existed for thousands of years outside of Heaven, you should consider that he will be cast in the lake of fire. In any event, there is every indication that Adam ate of the Tree of Life as long as he was in the Garden and that the same Tree grows in the New Earth, preventing death for 1,000 years. Life-Everlasting derives from God's Grace. Step out of that Grace? I believe that makes the point.

    Eating of the Tree of Life effectively stops aging. Immortality is the resulting effect. Adam was created and suffered not aging by virtue of having access to the Tree of Life. The counting of years in relation to Adams's life could only start to be numbered from the event of his first sin, starting his mortality. Mortality = passage of time outside God's Kingdom. But I see your objection, but it doesn't change the fact that Adam lived 70 man-years less than a thousand. With either scenario, it still represents the First God-day.
    Doveaman, don't deny discernment of the Spirit. It is the one factor that allows for a timely understanding of parables and other scriptural mysteries. I'm very much committed to literal translation, but the Living Word is a 360 degree panorama, even a four dimensional view of God's Will. I challenge you to allow the Holy Spirit to lift it from its static pages to flower in your soul. If my heart is desperately wicked after 33 years of living with God's Holy Spirit, then where is the hope? But then, there is that potential. Prayer and having been utterly broken accounts for something.

    3,500 man-years X 2 = 7,000 man-years. This includes the Millennium or the 7th day of rest. If Jesus' Resurrection-Salvation happened in or around 3,500 man-years after the first sin and you add to that 1,000 man-years to account for the Millennium, you're left with 1,500 man-years to the Second-Coming. This compresses the Resurrection Era 500 years. What you consider your theory is doing more than you intended.

    Your extensive work considering the history of the Children of Israel is being pored over. I'm very grateful for you devotion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2009
  9. Covenant Heart

    Covenant Heart Principled Iconoclast

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    Since God Told Me Everything --

    I must know as much as God.

    Regarding the original post -- I know this!

    In 2027, I'll be 18 years older.

    Blessings!

    Covenant Heart
     
  10. rdcast

    rdcast Regular Member

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    cute, if not totally trite.
     
  11. Covenant Heart

    Covenant Heart Principled Iconoclast

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    Heretical

    When Jesus himself disclaimed knowing the day or hour of those things appointed by the Father -- it seems more than a little presumptuous to assert that we have been told everything. For another opinion -- see Dt 29:29; Mk 13:32; Mt 24:36; Act 1:7 and Ro 11:33-34.

    Blessings!

    Covenant Heart
     
  12. rdcast

    rdcast Regular Member

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    no thank you
     
  13. contrabar

    contrabar Junior Member

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    heretical?... really?... aer you so blind to this imminent mindest that you can't see the truth that is set in front of your eyes?

    Matthew 24:24-26
    24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
    25 See, I have told you beforehand.
    26 So, if they say to you, 'Look, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out. If they say, 'Look, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.


    Amos 3:6-8
    6 Is a trumpet blown in a city,
    and the people are not afraid?
    Does disaster come to a city,
    unless the LORD has done it?

    7 "For the Lord GOD does nothing
    without revealing his secret
    to his servants the prophets.


    8 The lion has roared;
    who will not fear?
    The Lord GOD has spoken;
    who can but prophesy?"



    Mark 13:22-23
    22 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
    23 But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.

    2 Thessalonians 2:5
    Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?


    Christ told us when He would return... after the tribulation.
    doesn't get more plain than that
     
  14. Covenant Heart

    Covenant Heart Principled Iconoclast

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    This imminent mindest?

    Pray tell -- whatever is that?

    You know -- I almost posted Amos 3:7 with the other texts, along with John 15:15. Those texts also stand. Can you suggest a way to hold both streams of the Biblical witness faithfully?

    Personally, I think that this problem happens when we divorce statements such as Amos 3:7 from their literary/theological context and then attempt to extrapolate from them a universal principle by which we want to validate an entire hermeneutical system.

    That bit about heresy? I was commenting on my own, ‘tongue in cheek’ remark. Perhaps you knew that, but I thought I should make that plain.

    Blessings!

    Covenant heart
     
  15. rdcast

    rdcast Regular Member

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    I don't know you, so I wont laugh.
     
  16. B1inHim

    B1inHim LOVE one another

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    I know of you a little so I will laugh a little... that was funny

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6UU6m3cqk

    2027 is wayyyyyy to far away for the signs to linger that long...
    It places us beyond the 6,000 year mark since we began to record time...by at least 7 to 10 years...

    Oh wait, I have a reply on this thread already...:thumbsup:
    Hey, y'all have a wonderful rest of the week.
    Love,
    Brother Jerry
     
  17. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    I don’t quite get your math. My theory actually adds 500 years to the Resurrection Era.

    3,500 man-years X 2 = 7,000 man-years. This includes the Millennium or the 7th day of rest.

    If Jesus' Resurrection-Salvation happened in or around 3,500 man-years after the first sin and you add to that 1,000 man-years to account for the Millennium you arrive in or around 4,500 man-years.

    We are left with another 2,500 man-years between Christ’ Resurrection-Salvation and Christ’s Second-Coming (Resurrection Era).

    From Garden-Sin to Resurrection-Salvation – 3,500 man-years (A time and times and half a time).

    From Resurrection-Salvation to Second-Coming – 2,500 man-years (Resurrection Era).

    From Second-Coming to Day of Judgment – 1,000 man-years (Millennium).

    From Garden-Sin to Day of Judgment – 7,000 man-years (Salvation-Covenant).

    3,500 man-years + 2,500 man-years + 1,000 man-years = 7,000 man-years.
     
  18. rdcast

    rdcast Regular Member

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    I stand corrected. Thank you.

    Let me make two observations:
    1) You worry about literal interpretation, yet you've come close in adopting the view that Jesus' Resurrection-Salvation would be more likely the time-stamped marker for God's Will toward man. This is in opposition of using Jesus' birth.
    2) The reminder that the heart is desperately wicked was well received. Vanity is a killer no doubt and we should be reminded of this regularly among ourselves. I don't have a theory lest it be named after me, "Rob's Revelations" or some such nonsense. I suggest, in our conversations at least, that we provide generic labels for the different perspectives. We should enjoy better progress if we deny ownership.

    Your Perspective:

    Garden------ Pre-------------- ------ Resurrection-------------------- Second-Coming
    Expulsion Resurrection Era---------------Salvation ------- Resurrection Era------ Millennium
    0-------- 1,000------- 2,000------- 3,000- 3,500- 4,000------- 5,000------- 6,000---- 7,000

    ^-----------
    ^------------^-------------^------^------^-------------
    ^-------------^----------^
    --------|--------|--------|----|----|--------|--------|--------
    --day1---- day2---- day3---- day4----- day5---- day6---- day7
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------^-------(day of rest)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------we're here
    ------------------------------------------------------------518 BSC(before Second-Coming)

    _______________________________________________________________


    My Perspective:

    Garden-------- Pre----------------------- - Resurrection------------ Second-Coming
    Expulsion-- Resurrection Era------------------- Salvation---Resurrection Era---- Millennium
    0-------- 1,000------- 2,000------- 3,000- ------ 4,000------- 5,000------- 6,000 --- 7,000
    ^-----------^------------^-------------^--- ---------^------------^-------------^-------- ---^
    --------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------
    --day1---- day2---- day3---- day4----- day5---- day6---- day7
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------^-(day of rest)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------we're here
    --------------------------------------------------------------------18 BSC(before Second-Coming)
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2009
  19. Covenant Heart

    Covenant Heart Principled Iconoclast

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    And Do You Know Why?

    It's because I'M gonna laugh for BOTH of us.

    And there's NUTTI'N you can do about it!


    :D :wave: ;) ^_^ :D :wave: ;) ^_^

    Blessings!

    Covenant Heart
     
  20. rdcast

    rdcast Regular Member

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    It's not cause i have anything against laughter, it's just that you ain't funny! Now that's funny, i don't care who you are!
    :ahah:
     
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