Everlasting Destruction Revised

FineLinen

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2 Thessalonians 1:9 English Standard Version (ESV)

"They will suffer the punishment of the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.."

1. What it is?

2. What it is not?

3. What is the scope of aionios?

4. Is the quality of destruction qualified?

5. What is before aionios?

6. What the scholars proclaim.

7. Various translations of "everlasting destruction".
 
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FineLinen

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Dear Jonaitis: I have no idea what you deleted, but what remains of your post is a blessed fact.

“The greatest sorrow and burden you can lay on the Father, the greatest unkindness you can do to him is not to believe that he loves you.” - John Owen

John Owen (theologian) - Wikipedia
 
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Jonaitis

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Dear Jonaitis: I have no idea what you deleted, but what remains of your post is a blessed fact.

“The greatest sorrow and burden you can lay on the Father, the greatest unkindness you can do to him is not to believe that he loves you.” - John Owen

John Owen (theologian) - Wikipedia

It is a quotation in my signature. I could preach a sermon on that quotation alone.

You should read the works of John Owen, he shares a treasure trove of knowledge in Scripture.
 
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FineLinen

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#1 What it is?

What is Destruction

Apollumi


Apollumi=

Signifies to destroy utterly (middle voice to perish).

Loss not of being, but of well being as in>>>

1. Wine skins (marring)

2. Lost sheep (lost to the shepherd).

3. Of spiritual destitution.

4. Of the lost son.

5. Perishing of food.

6. Perishing of gold
 
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FineLinen

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#1 What it is?

What is Destruction

Apollumi


Apollumi=

Signifies to destroy utterly (middle voice to perish).

Loss not of being, but of well being as in>>>

1. Wine skins (marring)

2. Lost sheep (lost to the shepherd).

3. Of spiritual destitution.

4. Of the lost son.

5. Perishing of food.

6. Perishing of gold

What it is not.

1. It is not everlastingness. (our new word.)

2. It is a period of destruction.

3. It is not a fixed duration.

4. It is limited in scope with lasting results.

5. Jesus Christ specializes in>>>

Lost coins, lost sheep, spiritual destitution, food that will be wasted & gold.

6. The ministry of Jesus Christ is NOT LIMITED!
 
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FineLinen

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What is the scope of aionios?

We must begin with the Hebrew Olam, the foundation from the Old Covenant of the New Covenant aionios.

Olam=

HEBREW WORD STUDIES עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting, age-lasting'

Aionios=

Kolasis aionion -Matthew 25:46-

Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

Scarlett’s New Testament written in 1792 has “aeonian punishment” in place to “everlasting punishment.”

“And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life.”

The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:

“And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.”

Young’s Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:

“And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.”

Professor Young also compiled Young’s Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:

“And these last will go away ‘into aeonian punishment,’ but the righteous ‘into aeonian life.’”

The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:

"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:

“And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages.”

Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as “life of the ages,” “fire of the ages;” and in Rev. 14:6, “The good news of the ages.”

It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth’s version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:

“And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word “forever” which is the same word for “eternal” which says: "Literally, for the age.”

Clementson’s The New Testament (1938) shows,

“And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”

Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,

“And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life.”

It should be noted that the “cutting-off” refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit.

The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word “timoria.”

The Concordant Version (1930):

“And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”

The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:

“And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.”

Joseph B. Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,

“and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.”

The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976

has “age-abiding correction” instead of “everlasting punishment.”

Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has

"And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King’s translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.”

The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”
 
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2 Thessalonians 1:9 English Standard Version (ESV)

"They will suffer the punishment of the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.."

1. What it is?
...

I think the punishment is death, because:


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:23

And the death means in the end that unrighteous body and soul is destroyed. And what is destroyed doesn’t come back, which is why it is eternal solution.


And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matt. 10:28
 
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FineLinen

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I think the punishment is death, because:


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:23

And the death means in the end that unrighteous body and soul is destroyed. And what is destroyed doesn’t come back, which is why it is eternal solution.


And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matt. 10:28

My friend: is that death without everlasting preceding it?
 
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FineLinen

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I think there is no need to use ”everlasting” in there.

Dear Bling: The Spirit of the Lord has placed aionios preceeding destruction for a powerful reason. Aionios is not a duration expression of everlastingless in reference to punishment or destruction or aionios life. It is only time related in its union with aeon/aion and its Hebrew root olam.

So, as has already been posted, aionios is not a time dimension, but a dimension of quality by the Father of us all.

This IS life aionios, that we may know You....
 
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Blade

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What is "they'? "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 2 Thes 1 8. Context.

And there's been and still is allot of controversy about this. So your not going to narrow this down. Seems to mean "eternal" here which was used what 3 other times. The Father is just. Be it for a moment or eternal.. does it matter? They are no more in His presence.. cast out. His creation....to never see Him
 
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FineLinen

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What is "they'? "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 2 Thes 1 8. Context.

And there's been and still is allot of controversy about this. So your not going to narrow this down. Seems to mean "eternal" here which was used what 3 other times. The Father is just. Be it for a moment or eternal.. does it matter? They are no more in His presence.. cast out. His creation....to never see Him

Dear Blade: I repeat, the Holy Spirit has seen fit to preface destruction with aionios. It is a quality of destruction by the Father of fathers in the same dimension as aionios life>>>>

Quality>>>quality>>>quality
 
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FineLinen

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What is the scope of aionios?

We must begin with the Hebrew Olam, the foundation from the Old Covenant of the New Covenant aionios.

Olam=

HEBREW WORD STUDIES עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting, age-lasting'

Aionios=

Kolasis aionion -Matthew 25:46-

Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

Scarlett’s New Testament written in 1792 has “aeonian punishment” in place to “everlasting punishment.”

“And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life.”

The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:

“And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.”

Young’s Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:

“And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.”

Professor Young also compiled Young’s Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:

“And these last will go away ‘into aeonian punishment,’ but the righteous ‘into aeonian life.’”

The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:

"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:

“And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages.”

Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as “life of the ages,” “fire of the ages;” and in Rev. 14:6, “The good news of the ages.”

It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth’s version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:

“And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word “forever” which is the same word for “eternal” which says: "Literally, for the age.”

Clementson’s The New Testament (1938) shows,

“And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”

Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,

“And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life.”

It should be noted that the “cutting-off” refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit.

The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word “timoria.”

The Concordant Version (1930):

“And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”

The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:

“And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.”

Joseph B. Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,

“and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.”

The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976

has “age-abiding correction” instead of “everlasting punishment.”

Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has

"And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King’s translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.”

The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”

 
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FineLinen

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All References To Bazanidzo=

Matt. 8.6

Matt. 8.29

Matt. 14.24

Mark 5.7

Mark 6.48

Luke 8.28

2 Peter 2.8

Rev. 9.5/ 14.10 / 12.2 / 14.10 / 20.10

All uses =

1. Sick of palsy.

2. Ship tossed in waves.

3. Contrary winds.

4. Righteous man vexed in soul.

5. The enemy in the presence of Jesus Christ.

6. Torment.

Basanidzo=

1. To test metals by the touchstone (IOW the purity of gold).

2. To question by applying torture.

3. To vex with grievious pains (in mind & body).

4. To be harassed / distressed.
 
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FineLinen

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There is aionios kolasis (everlasting punishment) & basanidzo & apollumi>>>

BUT

The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion), eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Neither, will you find the term aidios timorion or eternal torment.

Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) or torment beyond this life is sadly mistaken.

It's a limited duration of aionion (αἰώνιον - a period of time, as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable.

If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life for that matter.
 
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There is aionios kolasis (everlasting punishment) & basanidzo & apollumi>>>

BUT

The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion), eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Neither, will you find the term aidios timorion or eternal torment.

Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) or torment beyond this life is sadly mistaken.

It's a limited duration of aionion (αἰώνιον - a period of time, as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable.

If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life for that matter.

No, we are not sadly mistaken, I'm afraid you are!

Using your own ESV translation we read in Matt. 25:46,
 
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They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might (ESV).

Sure, the presence of God and His power will eternally destroy 'those who do not know God' and 'those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus' (2 Th 1:8).

How?

By giving them knowledge of God and obedience to the gospel. By saving them and bringing them to repentance, so that God may make them worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power (2 Th 1:11). The old man is crucified and dies forever, the new man is is put on in Christ.

Out with the old, in with the new.

Praise the Lord!
 
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FineLinen

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No, we are not sadly mistaken, I'm afraid you are!

Using your own ESV translation we read in Matt. 25:46,

Dear Charlie: Welcome to you.

According to the context of this cornerstone text, can you tell us the 5 (five) qualifications for aionios kolasis?

They are>>>

? ? ? ? ?
 
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