Evening (Sunset) and Morning (Sunrise) = 1 Day

[YHWH_will_uplift]

As I made my way to work I came to understand that it is impossible for the moon to track the days as it only rules the night, whereas the sun rules the day: therefore this is evidence that God's calendar is solar.

 

[Heber Book List]

If you strongly believe I have erred then point out the error and correct it: don't rely on others to do it for you.

What? What are you talking about? I have neither said you are right, or wrong. I asked a simple, straight forward question! There is no point in trying to make it more than it was.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

What? What are you talking about? I have neither said you are right, or wrong. I asked a simple, straight forward question! There is no point in trying to make it more than it was.

Than what is the point in asking for proof? The question implies that you don't believe in what I have written: therefore please point out the error or ask for clarification.

 

[visionary]

I was confused with this too but, I found there was no need to be confused as morning to evening is one day: the day period which you speak of is when the light is completely out; the morning is the first appearance of light; and, the evening is the disappearance of light.

So we have two days of 12 hrs vs the current one day 24 hrs?

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

As I made my way to work I came to understand that it is impossible for the moon to track the days as it only rules the night, whereas the sun rules the day: therefore this is evidence that God's calendar is solar.

In order to reconcile this with the Genesis text it would follow that when it says that the lights were made for "[...]days and years[...]" the text is implying two things:

1) The Sun leads the year with the Moon and stars following behind it.

2) The Moon completes the year in 354 solar days according to the reckoning of the Sun; and, according to lunar time the Moon completes the year in 354 nights. This same logic would apply to the stars.

According to the reasoning above that is why Moses writes that the rain continued to call for forty days and forty nights. This is also why it is written that Moses neither ate bread nor drank water for forty days and forty nights: two more examples from Moses that He understood that day and night are not to be mixed together.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

So we have two days of 12 hrs vs the current one day 24 hrs?

No, when the Sun is out the time between its rising and setting is twelve hours in duration. The other twelve hours belong to the night: therefore we have twelve hours day and twelve hours night: therefore a day is only twleve hours in length according to the presence of Light and the Sun.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

I was confused with this too but, I found there was no need to be confused as morning to evening is one day: the day period which you speak of is when the light is completely out; the morning is the first appearance of light; and, the evening is the disappearance of light.

So, this is a zoom into my philosophy regarding the OP points:

Hmm...

I am of the staunch belief that time as we know it is a man-made "metaphysical" construct.

God put a TIMEX in the sky - a natural clock made from the periodic motion of the celestial bodies we view on our projection screen we call a sky.

Humans redefined time a myriad of times... over time.

But, this is just futility in practice: trying to gain control of events while at the same time ordering them according to their evolution (read: changes in state.)

God defines "time," as it were, as an evolution of events also. A day is an unspecified period of time; the first day was made when God separated (evolution of event/change in state) the light from the dark. And, depending on who you talk to, that first "yom" interval was an aeon. Other times, time according to God is dictated by the seasons, moonrise and sunrise.

These are simply evolutions of events - time is a false dimension, and a false construct humans used to try to make sense of evolutions of events. Humans cannot process infinite "now," so we chop up events in extremely small intervals to distinguish "now" from "now."

We made up the definition, or standard for time. It is arbitrary.



In the case of so called atomic clocks, the timepiece is categorically recording a certain number of hyperfine transitions in isotopes. And, that number of transitions is defined by "us" - a (semi)arbitrary figure equated to the SI unit of time. In the same way, the speed of light is defined as the time it takes light to travel one meter - which is why "normal" physical systems take $c=1$ (it allegedly takes light 300 millionths of a second to travel one meter.)

In other words, we make up the definition of time, and apply it to math and science.

And, yes clocks are suspicious in relativity - particularly because we can not necessarily reproduce and test relativistic time frames in the lab. It has been shown in the lab that time dilation exists, especially between atomic clocks and satellites. But the problem is getting enough matter that "matters" (a complete hydrogen atom, for example) to get to relativistic speeds in the first place.

It comes back down to a matter of available energy, and the shifts/perturbations in energy as a reflection of the evolution of events. The mathematical (or physical) action function.

Now, in terms of this, the bible, and the apparent contradictions of days with out sun, moon, stars, etc.:

I do believe "Yom" (day) in all of its connotations - from the evening to morning to the context of an aeon.

I do believe the word "hayah" in all of its connotations, especially its meaning of "became," implying a evolution of events to come to the eventual implied existence.

I do believe the word "or," and the word "choshek" in its meanings and connotations for "light," and "darkness," respectively. Or means illumination in every possible way, and choshek means darkness, specifically death, ignorance, pain, death, etc.

I do believe you can have an evening and morning without a sun, moon or stars, because "evening" is "erab" in Hebrew, which is from another word (arab,) meaning to make a pledge with a covering of darkness. And, morning is "boqer" in Hebrew, meaning to plough through with light, or the end of "night" (layil; a winding/twisting/spiral away from day.)

I dont know if you have read the hebrew for those specific words per the topics and points you raise, but it seems to be very close to what is ultimately being said in Genesis and other places.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

So, this is a zoom into my philosophy regarding the OP points:



Now, in terms of this, the bible, and the apparent contradictions of days with out sun, moon, stars, etc.:



I dont know if you have read the hebrew for those specific words per the topics and points you raise, but it seems to be very close to what is ultimately being said in Genesis and other places.

This is also great input and I add that the reason why days were still counted before the luminaries were created on the fourth day is because God was still establishing the length of the weekly cycle which, as we know is seven days in duration according to Genesis 1:1-2:3. Now the fact that the luminaries were created on the fourth day of the week indicates this is when the first day of the first year begins.
In conclusion when we use any other kind of device other than the heavenly lights to track time then we will always fail: for according to God He created the great lights for times, seasons, days, and years. Since we have not been given any unit of time being less than an hour we should not concern ourselves with it as God revealed the basics to us already concerning the nature of time and it's reckoning for days and years.

 

[AbbaLove]

As I made my way to work I came to understand that it is impossible for the moon to track the days as it only rules the night, whereas the sun rules the day: therefore this is evidence that God's calendar is solar.

Do you really expect us to believe that it was only recently that you came to the "revelation" that it is the sun and not the moon that tracks the days.

I attended a one room rural school house for the first six years of my public education. Even before 1st grade there was an understanding that it's the sun that tracks the days from sunrise to sunset. Common sense told me that a day begins at sunrise and ends at sunset.

Certainly you aren't suggesting that Yeshua and His Disciples only observed the Sabbath for 12 hrs; while all of Israel observed the Sabbath for 24 hrs. Where in the Gospels did Yeshua ever, ever imply that the Sabbath REST need only be observed from sunrise to sunset (12 hrs) instead of sunset to sunset (24 hrs). So, the Sabbath day of Rest is 24 hours; while a 12 hr day is from sunrise to sunset. If you only want to observe the Sabbath for 12 hrs ... that's your thing.

Furthermore are you implying that YHWH's creation over six days was during 12 hrs of daylight or 24 hrs of daylight? Do you believe the first 12 hrs of nighttime didn't begin until after the 6th day? If that is what you believe then why shouldn't the Sabbath begun at dusk.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

This is also great input and I add that the reason why days were still counted before the luminaries were created on the fourth day is because God was still establishing the length of the weekly cycle which, as we know is seven days in duration according to Genesis 1:1-2:3. Now the fact that the luminaries were created on the fourth day of the week indicates the first day of the first year.
In conclusion when we use any other kind of device other than the heavenly lights to track time then we will always fail: for according to God He created the great lights for times, seasons, days, and years. Since we have not been given any unit of time being less than an hour we should not concern ourselves with it as God revealed the basics to us already concerning the nature of time and it's reckoning for days and years.

I think this is also important in determining prophecies, and prevent falling in the trap of setting dates.

All prophecies are event based. For example, despite the prophecy given in Genesis 3:15, Christ wouldn't bruise the head of the serpent (defeat death, sin and resurrect) until The tribe of Judah was founded. The tribe of Judah couldn't be founded until Abraham's son was born, and God made the covenant with him. That covenant wasn't going to be formed until Noah went through the world flood. And, in the future, Christ won't make His return until the "Antichrist" entity reveals himself.

The prophecies never give a date; only signs (i.e. events) are given to recognize the advent of a foretold prophecy. Indeed, it could be at least "1000 more years" before Christ comes if it takes that long (1000 years) for the "Antichrist" to reveal himself - and he wont be revealed until the prophecies pointing to his identity happen. This is why we always must watch - not our TIMEX man-made watches and calendars, but the Perfectly setup system God has already given us - based on the reality of time itself (a change in events.)

 

[Lulav]

I'm trying to think about how this affects other 'time' stories in the bible.

I am thinking about Joshua's long day and Hezekiahs' steps on the time piece they used at that time.

About Yeshua saying he would be in the belly of the earth 3 days AND 3 nights which to me has always meant a 72 hour period which many disagree on to keep their tradition of a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday resurrection.

Also another thing to think about some cataclysmic event must have happened because it is clear that there used to be the 360 day year but now we are at 365. This becomes problematic when studying things like Daniels time table as well as others.

Also take into account that in HaShems 'year' there are only seven months.

And the year begins when He not only coordinates His clock in the sky but also the conditions on earth, when the barley is in ear. Then the year begins with the first month, Aviv. That is why on the Jewish calendar the year can be 12 months or 13 months long. I think that the most shows who is in charge of 'time'.

Which is another thing to think on , there are many instances of 12 and 13 in the Bible.

Just off the top of my head.

• Jacob had twelve sons and one daughter=13
• There were twelve tribes but Josephs was divided in two and it made thirteen =13
  
• There were 12 original Apostles, Judas betrayed and one was selected to take his place =13

But in the life to come we see that the HOLY city will have:

• 12 Foundations
• 12 Gates
• 12 Pearls
• 12 Angels at the gates
• 12 Tribes names
• 12 Apostles names written

It seems that because of our sinful nature on this earth the 12 ends up 13 but in the new heaven and earth 12 is the number.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

​

Do you really expect us to believe that it was only recently that you came to the "revelation" that it is the sun and not the moon that tracks the days.

I attended a one room rural school house for the first six years of my public education. Even before 1st grade there was an understanding that it's the sun that tracks the days from sunrise to sunset. Common sense told me that a day begins at sunrise and ends at sunset.

Certainly you aren't suggesting that Yeshua and His Disciples only observed the Sabbath for 12 hrs; while all of Israel observed the Sabbath for 24 hrs. Where in the Gospels did Yeshua ever, ever imply that the Sabbath REST need only be observed from sunrise to sunset (12 hrs) instead of sunset to sunset (24 hrs). So, the Sabbath day of Rest is 24 hours; while a 12 hr day is from sunrise to sunset. If you only want to observe the Sabbath for 12 hrs ... that's your thing.

Furthermore are you implying that YHWH's creation over six days was during 12 hrs of daylight or 24 hrs of daylight? Do you believe the first 12 hrs of nighttime didn't begin until after the 6th day? If that is what you believe then why shouldn't the Sabbath begun at dusk.

I will answer you in more detail later but, for now your words indicate the confusion which has led many (including myself) into error by mixing the periods of Light and Darkness together. Why should Jesus' observance of a 12 Hour Sabbath be unusual? He is the creator of time and the Sabbath Day isn't He? So, we should be matching our words and actions against His Words and not by man's traditions.

 

[Heber Book List]

Than what is the point in asking for proof? The question implies that you don't believe in what I have written: therefore please point out the error or ask for clarification.

You really must learn to read what people write. I simply asked if there are any academic writings on this issue that you know of. The answer, instead of the hundreds of wasted words on here, should have been quite binary: yes or no. Had it been 'yes' I would have asked for the information so that I could follow up the subject matter and see how other people have dealt with it. Had the answer been 'no', I would have followed the thread and maybe exited it after a while, which is what I shall now do

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

I think this is also important in determining prophecies, and prevent falling in the trap of setting dates.

All prophecies are event based. For example, despite the prophecy given in Genesis 3:15, Christ wouldn't bruise the head of the serpent (defeat death, sin and resurrect) until The tribe of Judah was founded. The tribe of Judah couldn't be founded until Abraham's son was born, and God made the covenant with him. That covenant wasn't going to be formed until Noah went through the world flood. And, in the future, Christ won't make His return until the "Antichrist" entity reveals himself.

The prophecies never give a date; only signs (i.e. events) are given to recognize the advent of a foretold prophecy. Indeed, it could be at least "1000 more years" before Christ comes if it takes that long (1000 years) for the "Antichrist" to reveal himself - and he wont be revealed until the prophecies pointing to his identity happen. This is why we always must watch - not our TIMEX man-made watches and calendars, but the Perfectly setup system God has already given us - based on the reality of time itself (a change in events.)

Since you're really interested into this subject of time I have dedicated a blog concerning the timing of the millennial reign: the 6,000th year will commence once the Euphrates river has been fully dried up for the sets of seven are connected to the 7,000 Years which are connected to the Great Days (i.e. days of the week): God told Adam that in the day he ate of the fruit he would die: since Adam died seventy years short of 1,000 years:

1,000 Years = 1 Great Day

The timing of the Euphrates river drying up is during the time of the opening of the sixth seal and the blowing of the sixth trumpet: therefore I said that after 6,000 Years will the the millennial reign commence: of course we do not know the day or hour in the 6,000 Year period when this will happen only that it will happen. Why am I so sure of this? Because in Revelation we are told during the time of the seventh angel is when time will officially end.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

I'm trying to think about how this affects other 'time' stories in the bible.

I am thinking about Joshua's long day and Hezekiahs' steps on the time piece they used at that time.

About Yeshua saying he would be in the belly of the earth 3 days AND 3 nights which to me has always meant a 72 hour period which many disagree on to keep their tradition of a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday resurrection.

Also another thing to think about some cataclysmic event must have happened because it is clear that there used to be the 360 day year but now we are at 365. This becomes problematic when studying things like Daniels time table as well as others.

Also take into account that in HaShems 'year' there are only seven months.

And the year begins when He not only coordinates His clock in the sky but also the conditions on earth, when the barley is in ear. Then the year begins with the first month, Aviv. That is why on the Jewish calendar the year can be 12 months or 13 months long. I think that the most shows who is in charge of 'time'.

Which is another thing to think on , there are many instances of 12 and 13 in the Bible.

Just off the top of my head.

• Jacob had twelve sons and one daughter=13
• There were twelve tribes but Josephs was divided in two and it made thirteen =13
  
• There were 12 original Apostles, Judas betrayed and one was selected to take his place =13

But in the life to come we see that the HOLY city will have:

• 12 Foundations
• 12 Gates
• 12 Pearls
• 12 Angels at the gates
• 12 Tribes names
• 12 Apostles names written

It seems that because of our sinful nature on this earth the 12 ends up 13 but in the new heaven and earth 12 is the number.

If we use a base 12 system, then 13 is "sinful" because it is a deception of something greater, but it is actually beginning back at 1 (degeneracy.) Think of a clock: 13:00 in the 24-hour system is 1pm in the 12-hour system.

It is numerological in nature - really, an exploitation of the God-given power in numbers (none are bad.) In algebra and geometry, all numbers are equal in quality, but "some numbers are more equal than others" - they generate special mathematical structures. You are right to notice the interesting occurrences of certain numbers.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

You really must learn to read what people write. I simply asked if there are any academic writings on this issue that you know of. The answer, instead of the hundreds of wasted words on here, should have been quite binary: yes or no. Had it been 'yes' I would have asked for the information so that I could follow up the subject matter and see how other people have dealt with it. Had the answer been 'no', I would have followed the thread and maybe exited it after a while, which is what I shall now do

In short you don't agree and would rather find some others you would personally agree with.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

If we use a base 12 system, then 13 is "sinful" because it is a deception of something greater, but it is actually beginning back at 1 (degeneracy.) Think of a clock: 13:00 in the 24-hour system is 1pm in the 12-hour system.

It is numerological in nature - really, an exploitation of the God-given power in numbers (none are bad.) In algebra and geometry, all numbers are equal in quality, but "some numbers are more equal than others" - they generate special mathematical structures. You are right to notice the interesting occurrences of certain numbers.

Thank you, I'm glad someone else has an appreciation and understanding of numbers and how they work and why they are important.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Since you're really interested into this subject of time I have dedicated a blog concerning the timing of the millennial reign: the 6,000th year will commence once the Euphrates river has been fully dried up for the sets of seven are connected to the 7,000 Years which are connected to the Great Days (i.e. days of the week): God told Adam that in the day he ate of the fruit he would die: since Adam died seventy years short of 1,000 years:

1,000 Years = 1 Great Day

This is what I believe also. God didn't lie when He said Adam would die that day. I think Adam's spirit died immediately. which is why the Comforter is such a big deal - before Christ we were carnality with no endwelling spirit of our own. It is almost as if the Hebrews HAD to be legalistic, because nothing else justified them. They didn't have Christ advocating for them yet (although, they believed.) We are under enough grace to have an "on loan" spirit until resurrection. I also think this relates to why they realized they were naked - they lost their light covering because their spirit died.

And, I also agree with you especially about Adam dying in a Great Day - he technically died when God said he did; it just took a little less than a Great Day for his body to fully rot to zero function.

The timing of the Euphrates river drying up is during the time of the opening of the sixth seal and the blowing of the sixth trumpet: therefore I said that after 6,000 Years will the the millennial reign commence: of course we do not know the day or hour in the 6,000 Year period when this will happen only that it will happen. Why am I so sure of this? Because in Revelation we are told during the time of the seventh angel is when time will officially end.

Yes, I do associate all 7th's (seal, trump and vial) as a "perpetually eternal" time associated with the advent (and forever founded establishment) of Christ. And, the "Sabbath" would be forever - in other words, however you take the interval of the days per set of events that define them, the "7th day" is a Sabbath that won't end ever.

It is like "day 6" of Creation is Genesis 2:4 to the end of revelation, and when God rests on day 7 is the Sabbath when Christ returns to rules forever - which also happens to always fall on a Sabbath in "real time" - Sukkoth (where the 7th day of Sukkoth itself is the Sabbath - and thus never ends, and will never restart the cycle beginning with Passover.)

Is your blog on these forums?

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

I'm trying to think about how this affects other 'time' stories in the bible.

I am thinking about Joshua's long day and Hezekiahs' steps on the time piece they used at that time.

These events never affected the passage of time only our perception of time. During Joshua's "long day" it is clearly stated that the sun, moon and stars did not set for a whole day: therefore the sun and moon would have been in the same position the next day anyways: this did not upset the passage of time. And the same goes for the sundial of Hezekiah: only the shadow was moved forward ten degress: not the sun. As for the timepieces they used a sundial to track the hours as the sun was the main timepiece which moved across the sky. At night they would have used the moon and the stars in the zodiac to track the hours.

About Yeshua saying he would be in the belly of the earth 3 days AND 3 nights which to me has always meant a 72 hour period which many disagree on to keep their tradition of a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday resurrection.

I believe that we complicate the simple words of Yeshua without our modern reckoning of time. He only said that He'd be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights: He did not say that they had to be full 12 Hours Day and full 12 Hours Night but, only that they'd be three days and three nights and, His opponents seem to have understood this well (see Matthew 27:62-64). Now if we do the math then that would have Christ rising on the sixth day and not the seventh day.

Also another thing to think about some cataclysmic event must have happened because it is clear that there used to be the 360 day year but now we are at 365. This becomes problematic when studying things like Daniels time table as well as others.

There has always been and will always be a 360 Day Year as a complete circle is 360°. The 365 Day Year we inherited from Egpyt who, intersetingly enough considered such a length bad luck. The year is in reality 364 Days as Enoch describes for in nature these four intercalary days are inserted between each of the four seasons to keep one separate from the next. And as you noted only a 360 Day Year will make sense and line up with Daniel's timeline.

Also take into account that in HaShems 'year' there are only seven months.

Hmmm...never heard of this before.

And the year begins when He not only coordinates His clock in the sky but also the conditions on earth, when the barley is in ear. Then the year begins with the first month, Aviv. That is why on the Jewish calendar the year can be 12 months or 13 months long. I think that the most shows who is in charge of 'time'.

This is where we must separate truth from falsehood sister. YHWH never commanded the barley to be sighted. Genesis 1:9-13 indicates that the year begins in the spring with the sign of new life springing from the ground, and this is the time of the spring equinox: and the day after is the first day of the year and the first day of spring which falls on the fourth day of the week. I have proven this on my blog. And lastly keep in mind that David understood and had it revealed to him that the year is only twleve months in duration and is numbered after the twelve sons of Israel (1 Chronicles 27:1-15).

Which is another thing to think on , there are many instances of 12 and 13 in the Bible.

Just off the top of my head.

• Jacob had twelve sons and one daughter=13
• There were twelve tribes but Josephs was divided in two and it made thirteen =13
  
• There were 12 original Apostles, Judas betrayed and one was selected to take his place =13

But in the life to come we see that the HOLY city will have:

• 12 Foundations
• 12 Gates
• 12 Pearls
• 12 Angels at the gates
• 12 Tribes names
• 12 Apostles names written

It seems that because of our sinful nature on this earth the 12 ends up 13 but in the new heaven and earth 12 is the number.

Well yes we sin if we observe a 13 month year but, as I have pointed out ready with scripture our year is only 12 Months in duration. Remember that the days and years are connected to the heavenly bodies:

12 Constellations
12 Months
12 Hours

360 Degrees
360 Days
36 Moments

1 Week = 7 Days
Pleiades = 7 Sisters

"Wisdom hath builded her house; she hath hewn out her seven pillars".
- Proverbs 9:1

A triangle and square combined have seven points and create a house. The answers are there for all to find.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

This is what I believe also. God didn't lie when He said Adam would die that day. I think Adam's spirit died immediately. which is why the Comforter is such a big deal - before Christ we were carnality with no endwelling spirit of our own. It is almost as if the Hebrews HAD to be legalistic, because nothing else justified them. They didn't have Christ advocating for them yet (although, they believed.) We are under enough grace to have an "on loan" spirit until resurrection. I also think this relates to why they realized they were naked - they lost their light covering because their spirit died.

And, I also agree with you especially about Adam dying in a Great Day - he technically died when God said he did; it just took a little less than a Great Day for his body to fully rot to zero function.


Yes, I do associate all 7th's (seal, trump and vial) as a "perpetually eternal" time associated with the advent (and forever founded establishment) of Christ. And, the "Sabbath" would be forever - in other words, however you take the interval of the days per set of events that define them, the "7th day" is a Sabbath that won't end ever.

It is like "day 6" of Creation is Genesis 2:4 to the end of revelation, and when God rests on day 7 is the Sabbath when Christ returns to rules forever - which also happens to always fall on a Sabbath in "real time" - Sukkoth (where the 7th day of Sukkoth itself is the Sabbath - and thus never ends, and will never restart the cycle beginning with Passover.)

Is your blog on these forums?

Yes my blog is on this site.