Evangelizing Atheists - a good thing or bad??

[SolomonVII]

And that is your right. Which concerns me little as I'm not in a popularity contest. If exposing a lie is uncivil then label me such. I'll wear that big red "U". The "a' you can keep where it belongs.

Calling people liars or ignorant on such flimsy evidence is what is uncivil.
It is also totally unnecessary, but it will make you popular with those who run with the pack.

 

[GoingByzantine]

Kylissa you are so kind to everyone, I always enjoy reading your posts. They are very refreshing!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Kylissa you are so kind to everyone, I always enjoy reading your posts. They are very refreshing!

Thank you, dear brother. I'm not sure I deserve such praise at the moment, but I will thank you for your kindness. It's a rough week. God is helping, but I appreciate kind words anywhere I can find them.

God bless you!

 

[BobRyan]

That is about the same number in the US with a 2012 gallup pole.

In U.S., 77% Identify as Christian

.

in Italy they report something like 37% as practicing Catholic and say nothing at all about the % on college campuses.

In any case the students are self-identifying as atheist and agnostic in that video.

So the point is clear.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

In the church I grew up in, we sponsored a missionary in England.. freaking England of all places. He went not for the church that was there, but for the handful who were not a part of the church. The lost sheep parable comes to mind. He was going after that one sheep.

Question is, which is something that troubles Rham and GoingB is are some of these missionaries going to this countries for the one lost sheep or stupidly going after the big herd of sheep that just has a different kind of wool?

In the video posted a lot of focus is placed on college students who self-label themselves as atheist or agnostic.

in my opinion that clearly identifies one of the two options you have listed.

Yes that is what seems to be the case.

What is curious to me is the anxiety over "denominational theft". If other denominations are seen as brothers why would it upset someone if people leave it? I have had friends change denominations and it does not upset me.

Or it could be that those that 'witness" to RCC or EO view them as less than christian which might be what is upsetting. I have met baptist who do not view catholics as christian. They view them along the lines of Mormons or JWS.. which is just silly.

It troubles me that almost no focus is being placed on the need to evangelize atheist students on the college campuses in question in some of the posts. All the focus for some is on the issue of whether the Catholic church in Italy should be offended.

This is quite surprising given the focus on evangelizing self-identified atheists on college campuses.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[SolomonVII]

It troubles me that almost no focus is being placed on the need to evangelize atheist students on the college campuses in question in some of the posts. All the focus for some is on the issue of whether the Catholic church in Italy should be offended.

This is quite surprising given the focus on evangelizing self-identified atheists on college campuses.

in Christ,

Bob

I watched the video expecting something quite egregious. Instead the man presented himself as someone with a very wholesome message about doing something worthwhile.
Evangelizing on campus after all is just engaging in some conversations with people about God, and it is as much about people from a different cultural background being presented with some Christian people that they would otherwise not have known anything about.
Anyone already firm in their faith will not be shaken, just by engaging in a conversation about Jesus, and those whose faith has not gotten past being baptized as infants will be presented with a point of view that they have not heard before, and not third hand through media but face to face with living breathing human beings.

That was the whole point of the video.

 

[BobRyan]

I watched the video expecting something quite egregious. Instead the man presented himself as someone with a very wholesome message about doing something worthwhile.
Evangelizing on campus after all is just engaging in some conversations with people about God, .

And he makes the case that they self-identify as atheists or agnostic.

All should be concerned for the Gospel going to such individuals not getting feelings hurt by this or that denomination.

Suppose for example there is a public university with some large number of self-identified atheist students near an Adventist Church/hospital/college - should Adventists whine that those atheists are being evangelized by this or that Christian group on CF?? really?? be serious.

We would say "may the atheists be evangelized" no matter who does it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Calling people liars or ignorant on such flimsy evidence is what is uncivil.
It is also totally unnecessary, but it will make you popular with those who run with the pack.

Well it's been well documented here that 90% of Catholics in Italy are not atheists. And the sources were not Catholic. As the determining factor of many well meaning people joining this "missionary movement" most likely is due to that non-fact, I'd say that ministry is based upon an untruth. (I didn't want to offend you by calling an untruth by the other term).
Or is it that you actually believe it?
And just so you know; I'm obviously opinionated but that does not equal arrogant. I'm very aware I can be wrong and will admit it when it's shown to me.
So show me that 90% of Italian Catholics are atheist and i will admit I'm wrong and have spoken a lie.

 

[BobRyan]

Well it's been well documented here that 90% of Catholics in Italy are not atheists.

I would think that 100% of Catholics are not atheists.

Is there some question about that??

I'd say that ministry is based upon an untruth.

Have you access to even one survey of the college and university campuses showing that 90% or 100% of the students claim they are not agnostic or atheist?

A small percentage of students may be village students from nearby homes but that is normally the minority at most universities.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Mama Kidogo]

And he makes the case that they self-identify as atheists or agnostic.

All should be concerned for the Gospel going to such individuals not getting feelings hurt by this or that denomination.

Suppose for example there is a public university with some large number of self-identified atheist students near an Adventist Church/hospital/college - should Adventists whine that those atheists are being evangelized by this or that Christian group on CF?? really?? be serious.

We would say "may the atheists be evangelized" no matter who does it.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob,
I agree that one atheist is reason enough. Why inflate the stats concerning Catholics to tug at hearts? If he'd specified a collage at least then people would know where to focus. I mean going to the closest Adventist university to evangelize the 90% atheist problem wouldn't leave you with a good impression of the one who sent you.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Catholics have their over-zealous cranks too. Below is a video clip from one such. However this particular priest isn't teaching what the Catholic Church teaches:

VATICAN, Sep 12, 01 (CWNews.com) - The Vatican Congregation for the Clergy has published a reminder that Father Nicholas Gruner, the self-styled leader of the International Fatima Rosary Crusade, has been suspended from priestly ministry and does not have ecclesiastical approval of his activities.​

Of course that doesn't stop him and his supporters from publishing their opinions. The main difference between this Catholic video clip and the many Protestant clips on youtube that set out to evangelise Catholics is that the Catholic Church condemns the teaching in the video clip while many pastors in various denominations fully approve of the attempts to evangelise Catholics.

The problem with Evangelizing Protestants today - YouTube

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I would think that 100% of Catholics are not atheists.

Is there some question about that??



Have you access to even one survey of the college and university campuses showing that 90% or 100% of the students claim they are not agnostic or atheist?

A small percentage of students may be village students from nearby homes but that is normally the minority at most universities.

in Christ,

Bob

Listen to that video again. Do you believe his stats? I would agree that the words Catholic and atheist don't belong together.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob,
I agree that one atheist is reason enough. Why inflate the stats concerning Catholics to tug at hearts? If he'd specified a collage at least then people would know where to focus. I mean going to the closest Adventist university to evangelize the 90% atheist problem wouldn't leave you with a good impression of the one who sent you.

I would love to see atheists evangelized at an Adventist university no matter who did it - but there are usually precious few atheists at any explicitly religious school because the application document requires that you self-declare to be a Christian in our case.

But this article is not talking about going to the Pontifical University in Rome (I would hope that most of those students would not be athiest).

As for the under 30's group in Italy - surveys have been done no matter that 30% of the overall population are practicing Catholics in Italy.

LifeSiteNews.com

Italy’s Last Catholic Generation? Mass Attendance in “Collapse” among Under-30s | News | LifeSite


Mon Aug 9, 2010 - 12:15 pm EST
Italy’s Last Catholic Generation? Mass Attendance in “Collapse” among Under-30s
By Hilary White
ROME, August 8, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com)

– Despite regular polls showing that about 30 percent of Italian Catholics claim to attend Sunday Mass regularly, a closer look at the numbers reveals a more uncertain future for the Italian Church, and consequently for Italy as a moral vanguard in Europe.

For many years, Italians responding to surveys have said that between 30 and 50 percent attend Mass more than once a month. But in 2004-5, the Patriarchate of Venice undertook a study that showed the actual attendance numbers were no more than 22.7 percent, with only 15 percent attending every Sunday. Those who attended one to three times were 7.7 percent. The survey noted that Mass attendance increases with the level of education, in contrast to findings in other parts of Europe.
While this number still compares favorably to that of other EU countries like France, where regular attendance is thought to be below 5 percent, it is likely to slide further in the coming years.

A survey conducted by Professor Paolo Segatti of the University of Milan, published in the magazine “Il Regno” in May, found that the news is even worse among younger Italians. Among those born after 1981, Segatti found, Mass attendance, self-identification as Catholic, and adherence to Catholic teaching are “in collapse.” Segatti predicted a near future in which Catholicism holds only “minority status in Italy.”

“It is imaginable that when the children of the younger generation become parents, they will make a further contribution to secularization.”
Segatti writes. “The youngest Italians are the ones to whom religious experience is most foreign. They clearly go to church less, believe in God less, pray less, trust the Church less, identify themselves as Catholic less, and say that being Italian does not mean being Catholic.”

Vatican expert and Italian journalist Sandro Magister noted last week that the loss of faith among young people has strongly affected women: “The collapse is so clear that it also wipes out the differences in religious practice between men and women – the latter of whom tend much more to be practicing – typical of the previous generations. Among the youngest, very few of the women go to church, on a par with the men.”

It is that 1981 group and younger that are being found as atheist or agnostic in the colleges and universities.

This cannot be blamed on missions to atheists "lying" - I think.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Catholics have their over-zealous cranks too. Below is a video clip from one such. However this particular priest isn't teaching what the Catholic Church teaches:

VATICAN, Sep 12, 01 (CWNews.com) - The Vatican Congregation for the Clergy has published a reminder that Father Nicholas Gruner, the self-styled leader of the International Fatima Rosary Crusade, has been suspended from priestly ministry and does not have ecclesiastical approval of his activities.​

Of course that doesn't stop him and his supporters from publishing their opinions. The main difference between this Catholic video clip and the many Protestant clips on youtube that set out to evangelise Catholics is that the Catholic Church condemns the teaching in the video clip while many pastors in various denominations fully approve of the attempts to evangelise Catholics.

The problem with Evangelizing Protestants today - YouTube

Another kook.

 

[BobRyan]

I notice that the video in the OP does not say "the problem with evangelizing Catholics" or "help us evangelize catholics". Are you making the point of the contrast??

BTW - I never see Catholic evangelistic crusades, or mail from Catholic churches saying they are doing an evangelistic series please come to church etc. How do they do evangelism?? I am just curious.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[MoreCoffee]

Another kook.

some of what he says is okay; that's the allure of cranks isn't it? They say some things that we know are true and throw in some untrue things and the task for the faithful is to affirm the truth and correct the error. Correcting errors is always a much bigger job than merely stating them.

 

[BobRyan]

Correcting errors is always a much bigger job than merely stating them.

Amen to that!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[MoreCoffee]

I notice that the video in the OP does not say "the problem with evangelizing Catholics" or "help us evangelize catholics". Are you making the point of the contrast??

BTW - I never see Catholic evangelistic crusades, or mail from Catholic churches saying they are doing an evangelistic series please come to church etc. How do they do evangelism?? I am just curious.

in Christ,

Bob

Catholics evangelise but not the way that Jehovah's witnesses do. So don't expect too many door knock evangelism programs from us, nor "have a free bible, all you need to do is give us your name and address and we'll send you one" nor do we leave tracts or booklets in your mail box ... mostly we let people come in their own good time and in their own way. But we do sometimes run TV ads like this ...

Catholic Church - Commercial - YouTube

 

[MoreCoffee]

You may like this one BobRyan.

Catholics Come Home "Movie" Commercial - YouTube

 

[BobRyan]

Both ads were very well done.

I notice that the video in the OP does not say "the problem with evangelizing Catholics" or "help us evangelize catholics". Are you making the point of the contrast??

BTW - I never see Catholic evangelistic crusades, or mail from Catholic churches saying they are doing an evangelistic series please come to church etc. How do they do evangelism?? I am just curious.

Catholics evangelise but not the way that Jehovah's witnesses do. So don't expect too many door knock evangelism programs from us

Didn't list door knocking in my post.

... mostly we let people come in their own good time and in their own way. But we do sometimes run TV ads

That is pretty much what I thought.

The Mormons and JWs and a number of other groups also do TV ads.

I am not against that either.

---------------------------------

Our evangelistic meetings usually start out with

1. Where is the world headed.
2. Proof that the Bible is the Word of God and Trustworthy.
3. What is the Gospel
4. How to become saved.
5. What does it mean to live the Christian life.

I think we have ads as well - just not sure if they say we are the fastest growing church in America, about 20 million world wide and have the second largest healthcare and private school system among all Christian denominations etc.

They might say that.

in Christ,

Bob