Evangelizing Atheists - a good thing or bad??

[MoreCoffee]

Shiny Gospel Shoes, are you going to write about evangelising atheists or not? So far you've been writing about the seventh day. That's not what this thread is about.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Opinion... yeah, well...

You see, attempting to speak to atheists/etc [which deny that God Created in the 6 Days and Rested the 7th day of Genesis 1-2, Exodus 20:8-11, etc], without speaking to them of that fact, as Paul did...

And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Acts 14:15

...is unscriptural.

For you see, the Sabbath Commandment is right there... in Pauls appeal to return to the Creator [Gen 1-2, Exo 20:8-11 ["For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."], etc] which created them... even as Peter spoke to the Jews in reminder, Acts 4:24.
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God winks at ignorance, and is long-suffering, but now calls all men [including you] to Repent [turn from Sin, which is transgression of the Law, and denial of the Creator] and obey Him:

Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Acts 14:16

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Acts 17:30​

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Shiny Gospel Shoes, are you going to write about evangelising atheists or not?
So far you've been writing about the seventh day. That's not what this thread is about.

Nothing brings out the sabbatarian SDAs and MJs more than a good ole fashion sabbath thread....

keep it up bro

http://www.christianforums.com/t7714737-101/

if you observe Sabbath, Christ will profit you nothing.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(Galatians 5:1-4)

The above scripture carries a message that is true; everybody who seeks to be justified by obeying the law has fallen from grace.

This applies just as much to the one who seeks to gain God's favour by observing the 7th day as Sabbath in the belief that by so doing he/she shows themselves to be loyal followers of God and among those who "keep the commandments". One cannot be justified by works of the law.
[/quote]

OrthodoxyUSA

QFT!

PREACH IT BROTHER!

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Originally Posted by Steve Petersen

Someone here is saying you are justified by keeping the Sabbath?

Guess I have been sleeping through it.
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[GoingByzantine]

I respect your right on having those threads closed. But they were very informative. They were also telling us how some view us. I just equate the bantering with the noise of construction. If you silence the hammer and saw you don't get it finished. That said I don't blame you for wanting it out of your name.

I appreciate the kind words, I just opened up a whole can of worms...and I knew that CF was not yet ready for the thread I started.

There is still issues with evangelization by Evangelicals towards Apostolic Churches, like the EOC and RCC...heck probably the Anglican Communion, and Lutheranism as well. Probably the worst case of such evangelization is in Egypt, where missionaries set up shop in Coptic neighborhoods and divided an already small community...in a time where unity is key in that region. I don't see why you would target Christian neighborhoods, when 90% of the country is Muslim or Secular. Why not go after them?

 

[tadoflamb]

I spent the better part of my first 40 years as a borderline atheist and I've got to say although I was oft times the subject of protestant evangelization it had no effect on me. It wasn't until I heard the gospel as proclaimed by the Catholic Church that I came to truly believe.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I appreciate the kind words, I just opened up a whole can of worms...and I knew that CF was not yet ready for the thread I started.

There is still issues with evangelization by Evangelicals towards Apostolic Churches, like the EOC and RCC...heck probably the Anglican Communion, and Lutheranism as well. Probably the worst case of such evangelization is in Egypt, where missionaries set up shop in Coptic neighborhoods and divided an already small community...in a time where unity is key in that region. I don't see why you would target Christian neighborhoods, when 90% of the country is Muslim or Secular. Why not go after them?

What you opened was a can exposing bigotry which is ignorance. A can of light. Such always causes problems but it's worth it in the long run. I lived through it in the sixties here in the south. Bringing things into the light will always cause folks to take sides but shine enough light on it and the truth will prevail.
Here in the Americas we are a spoiled and politically correct trained group of sleepers. You woke them up and found out that people can be grumpy when suddenly shaken awake. I trust your wisdom in shutting it down when you did but please don't think what you did was wrong. People were not ready for equal rights for minorities either. But it was well worth exposing the bigotry.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I spent the better part of my first 40 years as a borderline atheist and I've got to say although I was oft times the subject of protestant evangelization it had no effect on me. It wasn't until I heard the gospel as proclaimed by the Catholic Church that I came to truly believe.

My husband often recounted that he'd been evangelize by many evangelic folk including his grandmother who he loved and believed was very wise and truthful. but one day as a teenager he heard a friends mother say something that stuck with him until the day he believed as a forty something man. She (a Catholic lady)was full of beer but as they spoke she noticed he didn't realize something important. That Jesus is God. Now imagine that. He'd been to this Church and that Church many times (when extended family visited) but had not once heard that simple truth. Right to his death he credited that half drunk Catholic lady with being the one who actually shared the real gospel with him.
Oh how I wish those sharing the gospel would actually be schooled just a bit before attempting to do so. For one to believe in Christ, it might be good to inform them who Christ actually is as leaving out that little detail is sharing something other than Christ.

 

[SolomonVII]

Good and bad are perhaps better described in terms of effective and ineffective.

 

[SolomonVII]

What you opened was a can exposing bigotry which is ignorance. A can of light. Such always causes problems but it's worth it in the long run. I lived through it in the sixties here in the south. Bringing things into the light will always cause folks to take sides but shine enough light on it and the truth will prevail.
Here in the Americas we are a spoiled and politically correct trained group of sleepers. You woke them up and found out that people can be grumpy when suddenly shaken awake. I trust your wisdom in shutting it down when you did but please don't think what you did was wrong. People were not ready for equal rights for minorities either. But it was well worth exposing the bigotry.

Oh poo.

People who disagreed with GB in that thread were not the equivalent of a bunch of bigots and racists.


Going Byzantine got called out in that thread, and rather than responding he wimped out.

 

[Rhamiel]

Oh poo.

People who disagreed with GB in that thread were not the equivalent of a bunch of bigots and racists.


Going Byzantine got called out in that thread, and rather than responding he wimped out.

he made that thread in a rather emotional state

the thread was not bearing good fruit so he ended it

there is no shame in ending something when it is not being productive

 

[SolomonVII]

he made that thread in a rather emotional state

the thread was not bearing good fruit so he ended it

there is no shame in ending something when it is not being productive

It is all a matter of a point of view, I guess.

It was a very productive thread, with a lot of give and take, and without the self-righteous snobbery like in this one, where people who take a different point of view are then compared to bigots and racists.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Good and bad are perhaps better described in terms of effective and ineffective.

True. But just because you do not see results, do not assume it was not worth your while or ineffective.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEue0o7TjJE

 

[GoingByzantine]

Oh poo.

People who disagreed with GB in that thread were not the equivalent of a bunch of bigots and racists.


Going Byzantine got called out in that thread, and rather than responding he wimped out.

Or, I ended it because it was going nowhere. I could have sat there and argued for 100 pages...but I decided it would not be in GTs best interest.

If you think there was no bigotry present in the thread, go to the last page (before it was locked) and read post 241. Once I saw lies like that were entering into the thread, I knew it would soon devolve into something I had not intended....hence the request to lock it up. Although if others thought it was a good conversation, I apologize for ending it early.

 

[SolomonVII]

True. But just because you do not see results, do not assume it was not worth your while or ineffective.

One place where I did see the results that turned a lot of people off, and had the opposite effect of what was intended, is evangelizing hell.

Especially to other people's children.

People in atheist forums who remember being taunted by other kids over hell are still hot under the collar and rejecting of Christians because of stuff like that, well into their adulthood.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

It is all a matter of a point of view, I guess.

It was a very productive thread, with a lot of give and take, and without the self-righteous snobbery like in this one, where people who take a different point of view are then compared to bigots and racists.

I called no one a racist. I called some bigots (ignorant of facts). Like the percentages given in the video. I agree it was productive and also agree it was emotional. I've shamefully been involved in that whole "trying to save Catholics because they are not born again" rubbish under the guise of it being proper. I was an evangelic most my life and I'm not ignorant to the misinformation being spread about Catholics in those churches.
Sorry guy, I don't play the race card. I call out wrong when I see it.
Now if you care, I'll be more than happy to list many of those lies I used to spread and you can see if you've heard them from the pulpit before. But we'll need another thread for that as this is about evangelizing atheist.
BTW there is no such thing as a Catholic atheist. Just as there is no such thing as a Baptist atheist or Christian atheist. Such terms are oxymorons.

 

[GoingByzantine]

I think the problem I have (and Rham touched on this) is that it is hard for me to explain something that others don't understand. It is hard to explain to Evangelical Protestants what it feels like to be undermined, and treated like a non-Christian. It is sometimes also hard to explain my own beliefs, because I am a Vatican Catholic...but I am Eastern in my beliefs. So sometimes my threads come out a jumbled mess of emotions, and my messages don't come out as intended.

So, as not to make this the GB sob story thread , I will say I have no problem with Atheists being evangelized. I am concerned that many missionaries think that anybody who does not share there exacting beliefs is not Christian. You can say an Italian teen does not know Christ, but maybe the teen actually does, just in a different way.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

One place where I did see the results that turned a lot of people off, and had the opposite effect of what was intended, is evangelizing hell.

Especially to other people's children.

People in atheist forums who remember being taunted by other kids over hell are still hot under the collar and rejecting of Christians because of stuff like that, well into their adulthood.

I agree that's a poor manner and it's not the gospel at all. I once heard a minister say something very stupid: "If I could dangle an unbeliever over hell by a string, to show him the err of his ways I'd do it".
I see that here from time to time concerning the Sabbath and diet.

I visited an atheist forum once. Those are some angry folk. And there was always some poor christian there hoping they could do some good there. It may be some good practice but it's not a place one should expect result except if their looking to touch the heart of a lurker. It's not wise to go into a house where you are not welcome except to be a punching bag. One on one works best.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I think the problem I have (and Rham touched on this) is that it is hard for me to explain something that others don't understand. It is hard to explain to Evangelical Protestants what it feels like to be undermined, and treated like a non-Christian. It is sometimes also hard to explain my own beliefs, because I am a Vatican Catholic...but I am Eastern in my beliefs. So sometimes my threads come out a jumbled mess of emotions, and my messages don't come out as intended.

So, as not to make this the GB sob story thread , I will say I have no problem with Atheists being evangelized. I am concerned that many missionaries think that anybody who does not share there exacting beliefs is not Christian. You can say an Italian teen does not know Christ, but maybe the teen actually does, just in a different way.

I understand. A Christian expects brotherhood from a fellow Christian. I expect disagreement but it is sad when you realize some who actually believe in the very same God don't receive you as a friend let alone a brother.

 

[Rhamiel]

also, you pointed out how the video you posted was based on a false assumption

95% atheist....
hearing people dance around those false numbers was not a good witness

 

[GoingByzantine]

also, you pointed out how the video you posted was based on a false assumption

95% atheist....
hearing people dance around those false numbers was not a good witness

Indeed. Those false statements were the main point of the thread, but many were treating them as if they were factual.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Indeed. Those false statements were the main point of the thread, but many were treating them as if they were factual.

I would doubt that 95% of those calling themselves atheist actually are atheist.
Often it's label of nothing more than rebellion and trying to sound cool.