- Nov 19, 2004
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What are the major difference between regular Presbyterian and Evangelical Presbyterian?
First, let me get some 'housekeeping' stuff out of the way: It's good to see another Libertarian, especially one your age.What are the major difference between regular Presbyterian and Evangelical Presbyterian?
That really depends on what you mean by "Evangelical Presbyterian". You may be referring to the EPC (Evangelical Presbyterian Church) denomination? If so, we would be happy to fill you in.
Nowadays the term "evangelical" is thrown around often, but it means different things to different people. The historical meaning of the word defines the traditional Protestant teaching of salvation by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone. To the modern media, it just refers to a conservative voter demographic that takes their "religion" seriously, for whatever reason. To many other people it is a reference to contemporary American "evangelicalism", which is kind of a newer pan-denominational movement with revivalistic roots.
Anyways - if you could provide a little clarification to your question that would be most helpful!
yes, I mean the EPC. I've been on the site for hours...but I was hoping someone could bring it down to layman's terms for me? lol
First, let me get some 'housekeeping' stuff out of the way: It's good to see another Libertarian, especially one your age.
Ok. There is some question of what you refer to. If you're speaking of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church then you can directly look at what they have to say.
By the way, both Hey Mikey and i are members of the EPC, so if you have further questions, i'm sure that one of us would be available.
If you're speaking of the denomination, there are some majour differences between us and the PCUSA.
First: While we allow female ministers and elders in the EPC, we do not mandate them. A congregation is free to chose it's own leadership.
Second: We do not have any specific guidlines concerning charismatic manifestations, but leave that to the guidance of the local church. For sure, where abuses occur, the local Presbytery would look into the matter.
Third: Unlike the PCUSA, the congregation owns and controls it's assets. If a congregation choses to leave the EPC, their property and assets go with them.
Other distinctions are found at the EPC web site.
Oh ok, no problem. BTW, as CDL mentioned above, both he and HeyMikey are EPC guys and both are very knowledgable and great resources.
So - in layman's terms - the EPC is generally considered to be a moderately conservative Presbyterian denomination. They are more conservative than the PC(USA) (which is the largest and most liberal Presbyterian church body in our country) in that they are not as influenced by higher criticism and neo-orthodoxy. Thus, the term evangelical probably fits them well as they hold to Biblical inerrancy and teach salvation through faith in Christ alone. However, they tend to not be as conservative as other Presbyterian denominations such as the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) or the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC) in that they allow their presbyteries to determine whether or not they will have female minsters, they are more open to the charismatic movement, they are not necessarily strong on some Reformed doctrines such as the Doctrines of Grace (commonly called Calvinism), and they allow more latitude when it comes to subscription to our doctrinal standards. One of the things you will find though, is that because of this "latitudinarian" approach, there can be significant variation between presbyteries and even congregations within a presbytery. Some of them will be as confessionally Reformed as any PCA or OPC church, others will barely be recognizable as Presbyterian and will be similar to other broadly evangelical churches.
One of terms that you will tend to hear in Reformed and Lutheran circles is "confessional". This doesn't have anything to do with confessing our sins or anything like that, rather it refers to how strongly a church adheres to it's doctrinal statements, or confession of faith. Thus, a church that closely abides by it's confession of faith is said to be confessional. In the Presbyterian tradition, our confession of faith is embodied in the Westminster Standards, consisting of the Westminster Confession, the Westminster Larger Catechism and the Westminster Shorter Catechism. If we were to put the American Presbyterian denominations on a spectrum from least confessional (liberal) to more confessional, we would probably rank them in this way:
PC(USA) -> EPC -> PCA -> ARP -> OPC -> RPCNA
Does this help at all? Let us know if you have any more questions!
That does help...on my post just previous I started skimming through the Westminster Catechism...thanks for that...
My church is EPC, however, does not require adherance to the westminster confession...just something the call the essentials...which I need to find...but I like to know everything I can. I've never chosen to be a member of a church, nor been asked. So, kind of a big deal to me!
Could you help me on this one?
I'm wondering if I understand predestination, as the site, states:
10.4 Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come unto Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men, not professing the Christian religion, be saved in any other way whatsoever, be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature, and the laws of that religion they do profess. And, to assert and maintain that they may, is very pernicious, and to be detested.
that...you can want really really bad to believe with all your heart and soul and never have a chance at salvation??
that...you can want really really bad to believe with all your heart and soul and never have a chance at salvation??
Ok, this is the Westminster Confession of Faith, and is certainly not unique to the EPC.Could you help me on this one?
I'm wondering if I understand predestination, as the site, states:
10.4 Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come unto Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men, not professing the Christian religion, be saved in any other way whatsoever, be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature, and the laws of that religion they do profess. And, to assert and maintain that they may, is very pernicious, and to be detested.
that...you can want really really bad to believe with all your heart and soul and never have a chance at salvation??
Ok, this is the Westminster Confession of Faith, and is certainly not unique to the EPC.
To understand WC 10.4, you can't isolate it from the other sections.
Starting at 10.1 this first sentence sets the context: All those whom God hath predestinated unto life,
It sets forth that the confession is speaking of the Elect: Those God has chosen.
The first word of 10.4 speaks of "Others", that is the NON elect. They can intellectually understand some of the gospel, but are not able in their own strength to accept Christ, and therefore cannot be saved.
This is just a rehash of basic Calvinism.
Philippians 2:12-13 has a key to understanding what the Reformers are saying in this section of the confession:
12So then, my beloved, (Z)just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your (AA)salvation with (AB)fear and trembling; 13for it is (AC)God who is at work in you, both to will and to work (AD)for His good pleasure.In section 10.1 of the confession, the people being referenced are those who God has worked in to be able to desire salvation.
Section 10.4 speaks of those who God has not worked within.
The basic premise is that God must enable men to believe the gospel. Those who He has enabled will desire salvation, those who He has NOT enabled will not desire salvation, and therefore never come to Christ.
so, if I desire to come to Christ...then i'm elect? what about people who used to desire it, then changed their minds?
If you're desire is for Christ's provision for your redemption, not how to get rich, or to have perfect health, or how to lose those nagging 10 lbs --he says to a pregnant Lady, not a smart move-- or...so, if I desire to come to Christ...then i'm elect? what about people who used to desire it, then changed their minds?
If you're desire is for Christ's provision for your redemption, not how to get rich, or to have perfect health, or how to lose those nagging 10 lbs --he says to a pregnant Lady, not a smart move-- or...
You get the idea. The rest of that stuff you can get from Oprah or Suzi Ormand, or Richard Simmons, or...you don't need Jesus for that.
A lot of people desire what they can GET from Christ.