Evangelical Pastor: Guns Are Not Christian

[rambot]

The guy has constructed a false analogy here, hasn't he? Owning a gun is not analogous to the killing of children in the womb. Not any more than owning a car is--and yet I have had more friends killed by traffic accidents than shootings.

Have you had more friends driving safely to and from their destination than you have had friends shoot another human being?

 

[rambot]

This comes to mind:

I always find it a bit funny to see Christians post this quote.
As though God is powerless and his love and grace are bound into limits.

 

[Albion]

Have you had more friends driving safely to and from their destination than you have had friends shoot another human being?

Yes. And I also have had more friends injured and killed while driving than have shot someone else.

When, I ask, are we going to confiscate all these cars that have no purpose but to move thousands of pounds of metal forwards or backwards, potentially killing passengers and pedestrians?? As we know from recent events, it doesn't matter how many times a dangerous piece of equipment does its job safely; we the public are supposed to focus on the times when that isn't the outcome.

 

[brinny]

I always find it a bit funny to see Christians post this quote.
As though God is powerless and his love and grace are bound into limits.

God is quite clear, all throughout His Word, that WE, His people are to defend, rescue, protect and speak for those who are in danger from evil.

There's also those verses about shutting our ears and turning our heads from the plight of those about to be devoured.

For instance, David even as a young boy, protected his sheep from both a lion and a bear. He killed them with his bare hands. Then of course there's Goliath. While the king and his entire army cowered in fear, David came, bringing food to his brothers, and then when he saw that no one was standing up to Goliath, he confronted Goliath himself, and gathered stones, and then RAN to Goliath, and did what he vowed to do. He aimed that stone, let it go, and it met its mark, and Goliath keeled over, dead as a door nail. Then you know what David did? He did what he vowed to do, and that was to cut off Goliath's head with Goliath's own sword. Do you know Who gave David victory? It was God. God who gave David the strength to protect and defend his sheep and kill the lion and the bear, and it was also God Himself Who guided that fateful stone from David's slingshot.

The quote applies that i posted above.

In addition, there will be no cowards in heaven.

It is written.

 

[rambot]

Yes. And I also have had more friends injured and killed while driving than have shot someone else.

So as a percentage of your friends usage of the tool you are discussing:
How much more frequently, relative to their usage of the object, is a car lethal? Not potentially lethal, mind you, but actually lethal?
I have a car, let's say 2x a day at LEAST for 40 years. Never injured anyone. That means I've been involved in vehicular transport more than 29,000 times in my entire life. The number of kilometers I've covered in that time...not including family vacations, let's say about 550,000km
29,000 times. NOBODY has died. I haven't even hit an animal.

I've shot a gun on about 12 occasions. I've already killed an animal. The purpose and intent of a gun is to kill. In fact, other than to make someone wet their pants, the ONLY other reason to HAVE a gun is to kill something.

Reasons to have a car:
1) Transport groceries
2) Transport large items and any and all goods
3) Travel distances longer than a few kilometers
4) Efficiency of time
5) Encourages exploration
6) Frequent excursions that allow us time exploring the natural world around our town (and much father afield too).
These are some of the way cars benefit just me. But think about society as a whole. If there were no vehicles on roads, how much success would we have in getting, oh, I don't know, pineapples, or lazyboys to our homes?

There are positive societal affects that cars provide (yes, negative ones too, I can't deny that). But again, I have yet to see a salient, intelligent, argument that provides a "pros v cons" of guns in our society where the pros outweight the cons.

When, I ask, are we going to confiscate all these cars that have no purpose but to move thousands of pounds of metal forwards or backwards, potentially killing passengers and pedestrians?? As we know from recent events, it doesn't matter how many times a dangerous piece of equipment does its job safely; we the public are supposed to focus on the times when that isn't the outcome.

I'm sorry to say I'm not sure which events you are referring to. But I gotta say that a gun does not do it's job safely at all. A gun makes you safe by killing people, or threatenning harm. That may seem safe for you but it's not safe for them.

 

[HannahT]

I grew up around guns, but I never shot one or owned one. I never felt the need, but it never bothered me having them around.

When I was growing up you didn't have mass killings. Guns have been around for a couple hundred years in this country, and mass killings are a more current thing. No one asks what has changed. That is the part that puzzles me.

Circumstances like this don't just jump up and show themselves out of the blue like this. lol are people so obsessed regarding stereotypes about gun owners that they missed that dynamic, or do they just think it cool idea to ignore it? It's a serious question. I don't see anyone really diving into it. Why do people not see the need?!

I know many of my family had guns due to the creatures in the area, and the fact it could take up to an hour for police to be at your place if you needed them. You also didn't tend to have grocery stores - which hasn't changed much in many areas - and they use them for hunting for meat. Then people liked to target shoot too. People have been doing that for hundreds of years, and somehow people today think this is somehow foreign to their sensibilities. lol not everyone grows up in urban areas! They shouldn't have to move to one in order to make people feel better either. What does make me giggle is the stereotypes about rural individuals which tends to show they don't know what they are talking about most of the time. Yet, I know its a cool thing to do today. lol! I spent most of my life in the urban area, and visited the rural area (family and such). Although, we are retiring back the rural.

Pastors seem to feel (some not all of course) that if they get some revelation for them? It MUST apply to all, or they aren't their type of Christian. If we go by the title of the article? (snickers) Guns can't be saved, so I guess them not being Christian should be obvious. If the pastor is hinting they can't be Christian if they are gun owner? I find that rather arrogant myself. I think the biggest issue is no one has walked in the shoes of others, and don't want to either. They just decide my belief system is best for all, and put it to bed. Those bubble worlds seem to be encouraged today, and that's just sad to me. It's a big piece of why there is so much division today. Wonder how they feel contributing to that?!

Things do need to change, and even gun owners know - and agree with it. I think it needs to be much deeper than the artificial stuff the government will come up with though. I mean that's all they ever come up with.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Just because something is part of your heritage and culture doesn't make it right in 2018. In parts of India widows threw themselves on their husbands funeral pyres. Is that right because it's part of the culture? In many cities in the US and elsewhere drugs and alcohol are part of the culture. Does that make it ok?

Sometimes you DO need to change the culture in spite of your heritage.

I would change the parts of our culture that promote gun violence. Instead of punishing gun owners I would punish parents who neglect and abuse their kids and turn them into criminals.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This comes to mind:

This comes to mind as well.

Matthew 24:43
"But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."

One has to wonder if these words of Jesus could be applied to today's 'home invasions', and the use of deadly force if necessary to "not suffer" one's house to be broken up.

Methinks it most certainly can.

 

[Par5]

Owning guns is part of our heritage and culture. Sadly some misuse guns, but you don't toss the baby out with the bathwater.

And sadly too many children, not that many years out of babyhood, have died needlessly in that heritage and culture of guns.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

This comes to mind as well.

Matthew 24:43
"But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."

One has to wonder if these words of Jesus could be applied to today's 'home invasions', and the use of deadly force if necessary to "not suffer" one's house to be broken up.

Methinks it most certainly can.

Jesus was talking about the time of his return, not about home invasions

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming,he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

 

[brinny]

This comes to mind as well.

Matthew 24:43
"But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."

One has to wonder if these words of Jesus could be applied to today's 'home invasions', and the use of deadly force if necessary to "not suffer" one's house to be broken up.

Methinks it most certainly can.

I agree. Indeed it can.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And sadly too many children, not that many years out of babyhood, have died needlessly in that heritage and culture of guns.

Many more have needlessly died as a result of the new culture of parental neglect.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Jesus was talking about the time of his return, not about home invasions

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming,he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

He was using burglary as a real life example, as it was common in his day, as it still is in ours, only often more deadly.

 

[Par5]

Many more have needlessly died as a result of the new culture of parental neglect.

The culture of parental neglect is a problem, the culture of domestic violence is a problem, the culture of DUI is a problem, but we are not talking about the problems those kinds of cultures bring, we are talking about the problems that occur in a culture of guns.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that you don't think your country has a gun problem when all you do is highlight a different problem. A case of, "Gun problem?? Ah, but what about......?

 

[HannahT]

The culture of parental neglect is a problem, the culture of domestic violence is a problem, the culture of DUI is a problem, but we are not talking about the problems those kinds of cultures bring, we are talking about the problems that occur in a culture of guns.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that you don't think your country has a gun problem when all you do is highlight a different problem. A case of, "Gun problem?? Ah, but what about......?

People that use guns to kill normally have triggers like they issues you listed. So, if the country rid themselves of guns....does the violent reactions just instantly stop and go away? Parental neglect doesn't still end up harming and killing children? Domestic abuse doesn't end up killing or harming anyone because the weapon is gone?

When I was growing up we didn't have these problems of mass shootings. Something did indeed change, and it wasn't the presence of guns. They have been around since the countries founding - and prior to that. The gun deaths are the end result of something within the culture that has shifted dynamically.

What really rots? You see no studies, or news reports about this at all. You might see one here and there, but overall its ignored. I think part that issue is the parties that would pay for those studies don't want to take the heat when they offend someone - and would be labeled as blaming instead of presenting facts. That happens alot today. If the facts are uncomfortable? You will get crucified for presenting them. Media and social media people will hunt those people down, and ruin their lives. Your only allowed to study certain areas, and get funding certain areas if they are safe.

Do you really think under that atmosphere anything can get accomplished? Its a big problem. Yes, all these issues are combined together. Why do you think people are frustrated and angry? The media and the politics play a big role in keeping that way too. It will be our downfall.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The culture of parental neglect is a problem, the culture of domestic violence is a problem, the culture of DUI is a problem, but we are not talking about the problems those kinds of cultures bring, we are talking about the problems that occur in a culture of guns.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that you don't think your country has a gun problem when all you do is highlight a different problem. A case of, "Gun problem?? Ah, but what about......?

I'm just putting the problems in the proper perspective. My job involves prioritizing and solving problems, so I'm pretty good at it. For example, I would secure the schools before I would address gun control.

 

[super animator]

Hmm. Most of the Atheists I know just think of Christians as ordinary morons.

I don't.

 

[Par5]

I'm just putting the problems in the proper perspective. My job involves prioritizing and solving problems, so I'm pretty good at it. For example, I would secure the schools before I would address gun control.

If you have to secure the schools, and I am assuming you mean with armed security, then you haven't solved the problem because if you had solved the problem there would be no need to secure the schools with armed security.

 

[Hieronymus]

I think guns are agnostics.

 

[HannahT]

If you have to secure the schools, and I am assuming you mean with armed security, then you haven't solved the problem because if you had solved the problem there would be no need to secure the schools with armed security.

If that works for you fine.

The immediate concern right now making sure schools aren't soft targets. There are plenty of ways besides armed security, although a combination in many circumstances due to size, etc would need to be looked at. This is a priority, and its sad YES. Yet, we don't have options to instantly remove the danger. Hank mentioned prioritize. The priority is to keep kids safe while in school.

I mean your are comment suggests we don't need to prioritize that, because it doesn't solve the problem. We need to keep them soft targets? That is how your comment came across although I doubt you meant it that way.

lol your icon says its your Birthday! Happy Birthday!!