LDS Evangelical Heresy in Modern Christendom

[Rescued One]

The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, (1979)
“One of the heresies which prevails in a large part of modern Christendom is the concept that Jesus did not organize a Church or set up a formal kingdom through which salvation might be offered to men. This poorly translated verse is one of those used to support the erroneous concept that the kingdom of God is wholly spiritual; that it is made up of those who confess Jesus with their lips, regardless of what church affiliation they may have; that the kingdom of God is within every person in the sense that all have the potential of attaining the highest spiritual goals; and that baptism, the laying on of hands, celestial marriage, and other ordinances and laws are not essential to the attainment of salvation.
“It is true that men have the inherent capacity to gain salvation in the celestial world; in a sense this power is within them; and so it might be said that the kingdom of God is within a person, if it is understood that such expression means that a person can gain that eternal world by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. But it is also true that Jesus did organize his Church and did give the keys of such kingdom to legal administrators on earth. (Matt. 16:13–19.)"
The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles Chapter 19: “What Lack I Yet?”

Q. Do LDS criticize our beliefs?
A. Yes.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Well when those beliefs are wrong yes!

Jesus did set up an earthly church, with prophets and apostles to help lead it.

 

[outlawState]

....the kingdom of God is wholly spiritual....

Of course it is wholly spiritual. Only incidentally is it comprised of sentient beings. Again, just because it is spiritual does not infer that corporeal elements are not included during the sojourn on earth.

 

[Rescued One]

The kingdom of God is spiritual. The Pharisees wanted to know when it was coming, but it had already begun and they didn't recognize it.

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Matthew 13
33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

 

[Rescued One]

"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation."
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, copyright 1969, p. 206

"One of the most pernicious doctrines ever advocated by man, is the doctrine of 'justification by faith alone,' which has entered into, the hearts of millions since the days of the so-called 'reformation.'"
Joseph Fielding Smith, The Restoration of All Things, p.192

"The Sectarian Dogma of Justification by Faith Alone has exercised an influence for evil."
James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith, copyright 1968, p. 407

Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

 

[Ironhold]

"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation."
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, copyright 1969, p. 206

"One of the most pernicious doctrines ever advocated by man, is the doctrine of 'justification by faith alone,' which has entered into, the hearts of millions since the days of the so-called 'reformation.'"
Joseph Fielding Smith, The Restoration of All Things, p.192

"The Sectarian Dogma of Justification by Faith Alone has exercised an influence for evil."
James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith, copyright 1968, p. 407

Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

I think most of us here have seen the damage that "once saved, always saved" can do to society, at least those of us "cultists" who are on the receiving end of the "love" displayed by "good Christians" who think that since they're "saved" they can operate with impunity and do to us whatever they see fit.

Or do I need to once again post those pictures of the street preachers at work?

 

[drstevej]

What percent of Christians who believe in once saved always saved "operate with impunity and do to us (LDS) whatever they see fit"?

You lament street preachers, what about door-bell ringers/evangelists?

 

[Jane_Doe]

What percent of Christians who believe in once saved always saved "operate with impunity and do to us (LDS) whatever they see fit"?

You lament street preachers, what about door-bell ringers/evangelists?

The first yells at you, tells random strangers their going to Hell, flames likes crazy, generally acts in an un-Christ-like manner, all while telling you that they are the "real" Christians and you should ask like them.

The second are polite, kind, and with charity *ask* you if you would like to talk about Christ. If you would not, they still ask if there's any anything of service they can do for you. I greatly enjoy talking with these evangelists (Baptist, JW, EV, etc).


Thankfully, only a tiny percentage of Christians are/act like street preachers. Vast majority >90% truly do show the love of Christ in their words, deeds, and are to be admired in that regard.

 

[Rescued One]

"Contrary to what many think, just believing in God and being virtuous and pure are not sufficient to qualify a person for entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
...
"People who accept and live doctrines of men do not know the living God."
Bernard P. Brockbank, “Entrance into the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, January 1973, p. 44

"'Now, all the world today, I am sorry to say, with the exception of a handful of people who have obeyed the new and everlasting covenant, are suffering this spiritual death. They are cast out from the presence of God. They are without God, without Gospel truth, and without the power of redemption; for they know not God nor His Gospel. In order that they may be redeemed and saved from the spiritual death which has spread over the world like a pall, they must repent of their sins, and be baptized by one having [LDS] authority, for the remission of sins, that they may be born of God. That is why we want these young men to go out into the world to preach the Gospel. While they themselves understand but little perhaps, the germ of life is in them'"
(President Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, Oct. 1899, p. 72)
Book of Mormon Student Manual, Copyright 1989, p. 111; copyright 1996, Chapter 38

• NO SALVATION WITHOUT ACCEPTING JOSEPH SMITH.
• If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth when he said that he stood in the presence of angels sent from the Lord, and obtained keys of authority, and the commandment to organize the Church of Jesus Christ once again on the earth, then this lnowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
• Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

[withwonderingawe]

"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation."
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, copyright 1969, p. 206

"One of the most pernicious doctrines ever advocated by man, is the doctrine of 'justification by faith alone,' which has entered into, the hearts of millions since the days of the so-called 'reformation.'"
Joseph Fielding Smith, The Restoration of All Things, p.192

"The Sectarian Dogma of Justification by Faith Alone has exercised an influence for evil."
James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith, copyright 1968, p. 407

Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

James 2:17
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The first yells at you, tells random strangers their going to Hell, flames likes crazy, generally acts in an un-Christ-like manner, all while telling you that they are the "real" Christians and you should ask like them.

The second are polite, kind, and with charity *ask* you if you would like to talk about Christ. If you would not, they still ask if there's any anything of service they can do for you. I greatly enjoy talking with these evangelists (Baptist, JW, EV, etc).


Thankfully, only a tiny percentage of Christians are/act like street preachers. Vast majority >90% truly do show the love of Christ in their words, deeds, and are to be admired in that regard.

And yet Ironhold would have us believe this "tiny percentage" is the majority.

 

[Rescued One]

James 2:17
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

There is no faith that doesn't produce works. A new birth equals a heart for God.

 

[KevinSim]

There is no faith that doesn't produce works. A new birth equals a heart for God.

So works are not necessary; all that is necessary is to have faith; but if you have faith of necessity you'll have works. That is as clear as mud. What's the essential difference between that and simply saying that works are necessary?

 

[Rescued One]

So works are not necessary; all that is necessary is to have faith; but if you have faith of necessity you'll have works. That is as clear as mud. What's the essential difference between that and simply saying that works are necessary?

How do you come up with "necessary" and "necessity"?

The grace of God is with us. Real faith, as opposed to feigned faith, is a gift of God.

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[KevinSim]

How do you come up with "necessary" and "necessity"?

Well, what I mean is that traditional Christians say God doesn't save someone because of that someone's works; rather God saves people who have faith; but traditional Christians also say that if that someone really does have faith, then that someone will have works. But what it comes down to is that if someone doesn't have works, then that someone won't be saved. After all, if that someone doesn't have works, then s/he really must not have true faith, and God requires that someone have true faith before He will save that someone.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Well, what I mean is that traditional Christians say God doesn't save someone because of that someone's works; rather God saves people who have faith; but traditional Christians also say that if that someone really does have faith, then that someone will have works. But what it comes down to is that if someone doesn't have works, then that someone won't be saved. After all, if that someone doesn't have works, then s/he really must not have true faith, and God requires that someone have true faith before He will save that someone.

This is actually a great oversimplification of the variety of beliefs found in Christendom, even within Creedal Christendom. Some different beliefs people have:
* Partaking in religious rites is 100% required for salvation, end of story.
* Partaking in religious rites is 100% required for salvation, unless a person has no possible way of partaking in them, then their desire trumps.
* Partaking in religious rites is 100% required for salvation, along with properly educated faith.
* Action in having faith and acknowledging one's acceptance of Christ is 100% required for salvation, end of story.
* Action in having faith and acknowledging one's acceptance of Christ is 100% required for salvation, unless you didn't have the opportunity, then we don't know.
* A person who has faith is saved and this is manifests through their works. If they leave the faith or produce overwhelming bad works, then they were never really saved in the first place, but were deceived into thinking that.
* No action and no faith is not required for salvation at all, but rather Christ bestows these on whomever He chooses to save after He's made this decision.
And many more...

 

[KevinSim]

This is actually a great oversimplification of the variety of beliefs found in Christendom, even within Creedal Christendom. Some different beliefs people have:
* Partaking in religious rites is 100% required for salvation, end of story.
* Partaking in religious rites is 100% required for salvation, unless a person has no possible way of partaking in them, then their desire trumps.
* Partaking in religious rites is 100% required for salvation, along with properly educated faith.
* Action in having faith and acknowledging one's acceptance of Christ is 100% required for salvation, end of story.
* Action in having faith and acknowledging one's acceptance of Christ is 100% required for salvation, unless you didn't have the opportunity, then we don't know.
* A person who has faith is saved and this is manifests through their works. If they leave the faith or produce overwhelming bad works, then they were never really saved in the first place, but were deceived into thinking that.
* No action and no faith is not required for salvation at all, but rather Christ bestows these on whomever He chooses to save after He's made this decision.
And many more...

I stand corrected!

 

[Rescued One]

Well, what I mean is that traditional Christians say God doesn't save someone because of that someone's works; rather God saves people who have faith;

God gives the person faith. No one is born with it.

but traditional Christians also say that if that someone really does have faith, then that someone will have works. But what it comes down to is that if someone doesn't have works, then that someone won't be saved.

You aren't paying attention. If a person doesn't have good works (everyone has works: good or bad), he hasn't had the new birth; he hasn't been saved. Salvation precedes good works.

After all, if that someone doesn't have works, then s/he really must not have true faith, and God requires that someone have true faith before He will save that someone.

No, God gives us faith and saves us by His grace: that is the new birth. We don't do good works to get saved; we don't do good works to stay saved; we do good works because we are saved.

 

[fatboys]

God gives the person faith. No one is born with it.



You aren't paying attention. If a person doesn't have good works (everyone has works: good or bad), he hasn't had the new birth; he hasn't been saved. Salvation precedes good works.



No, God gives us faith and saves us by His grace: that is the new birth. We don't do good works to get saved; we don't do good works to stay saved; we do good works because we are saved.

So you. Wes works to be saved?

 

[Rescued One]

So you. Wes works to be saved?

If you want a response, please use English.