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Eucharist required for salvation?

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Hoonbaba, Nov 23, 2002.

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  1. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    +39
    Catholic
    Hi guys,

    I heard a claim which says that the Eucharist is required for salvation.  Is this true?  Or is it 'half-true'? ;)

    God bless!

    -Jason
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. ZooMom

    ZooMom Thanks for the memories...

    +983
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    No...it's true. It's just not the whole truth.

    *Just* eating the Eucharist cannot save you. On the contrary...

    1 Corinthians 11:27
    Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.


    What constitutes a 'worthy manner'? Faith in Christ and His promise of Salvation is foremost, as well as having a clear conscience and a remission of sin. We approach our Lord with a pureness of mind, body, and spirit, so that when we join with Him in Holy Communion He may strengthen and build upon the best we have to offer.

    John 6:53
    Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.


    Hmmm...well...I don't know what I can add to that.
     
  3. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    +538
    Catholic
    US-Others
    I mean no disrespect, but that sounds as though every single Protestant on the planet is going to Hell.
     
  4. I can eat 50 eggs

    I can eat 50 eggs what we have here is a failure to communicate

    +16
    Christian
     

    so how do you interpret that passage joe?
     
  5. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    +538
    Catholic
    US-Others
    Growing up, I was taught that that meant unless you were "saved", ie, "eating" and "drinking" of Christ, you'd go to Hell. But when you consider the Catholic belief in Real Presence, that means since I've never had the Eucharist, I'm going to Hell. :cry:

    Well, I just don't know what to believe anymore... :(
     
  6. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    I believe that, according to other Catholic teachings, you do not go to hell if you are Protestant and thus do not believe in the Real Presence.

    -Chris
     
  7. I can eat 50 eggs

    I can eat 50 eggs what we have here is a failure to communicate

    +16
    Christian
    ok, here is my take on this.

    Jesus says
    John 6:53
    Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

    so, what does this mean? I think the key word here is life.

    The Bible uses life in several different ways, which one is meant here?

    there are times when life means your mortal life here on earth. (psalm 88:3)
    Obviouslt, this can't be the "life" referred to in John 6:53.


    Other times, it means eternal life in Heaven. (acts 5:20)
    I guess you Could argue that this is what is meant, but to me it contradicts to many other passages.

    I think the correct interpretation of John 6:53 is linked to John 10:10
    The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they (1) may have life, and have it abundantly.

    How can you have life "more abundantly" both previous meanings of Life are either yes or no (you are alive or dead, heaven bound, or not) there are no "degrees of life"

    I have heard some say that he is offering eternal life to those who don't have it, and while that makes sense, and I agree with it, I think there is more to it. I think that he is saying right here, right now, you can have more abundant life. THis means he is talking about the QUALITY of life, he is offereing you the chance to have a relationship with the Father, and all the blessings that that entails, right now, to have the peace of the Lord, the Joy of Salvation, and Hope in everlasting life.

    I believe this is what is meant in John 6:53, that through the Eucharist he is offering a tremendous blessing for our life, a way to draw closer to the Lord unlike any man has ever experiences before. That the Eucharist will be the central part of our daily lives, filling us in a way previously unavailable.

    hmm, I have a feeling I rambled a bit on this, I hope its coherrent enough to make some sense.
     
  8. ZooMom

    ZooMom Thanks for the memories...

    +983
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    No, Joe. Remember, *just* eating the Eucharist is not sufficient. If you do not believe that Christ is truly Present in the bread and wine, and receive anyway from false motivation (ie. eating this bread will keep me from going to hell), you are doing yourself more harm than good. It is better for you to honestly refrain than dishonestly partake.
     
  9. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

    +605
    Eastern Orthodox
    Protestants who don't take the Eucharist are not going to Hell, wholesale. :) You can rest easy, Joe!

    Given that the true presence in the Eucharist is a teaching of Christ, to reject it would be a rejection of Christ. Note: there is a difference between a rejection of something and not believing in it! The followers of Christ who left after His discourse had not life in them because they rejected Christ's teachings from Christ's own mouth.

    The Catholic teaches there is a difference between a non-Catholic who doesn't receive Communion, an ex-Catholic who left because he didn't take his faith seriously, but does now, although he is now Protestant, and an ex-Catholic who left for reasons of vanity, pride, or valid excommunication. The first two are followers of Christ, and Children of God who we hope will see Heaven, the same as any Communion receiving Catholic. The latter, however, has rejected Christ and chosen to follow himself. Do you see the difference?

    God Bless,

    Neal
     
  10. Preachers12

    Preachers12 Unworthy

    887
    +30
    Catholic
    I would like to add to this and put some of this in theological and historical perspective.  All Bible quotations are from the Revised Standard Version.

    The day after Jesus fed the multitudes (note, with in part, bread), the Jews found Him and asked Jesus to perform a sign for them.  As a challenge, they remarked that their forefathers had been given manna to eat in the desert. As we see, "bread" has always been equated with Life and God and at the time of Christ, held special meaning.

    Jesus told them that the real bread from Heaven (which is what manna was) comes from the Father, not from Moses.  They responded: "Lord, give us this bread always." (Jn 6:34).  Note that their request was ALWAYS.

    Jesus responded to them: "I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst." (Jn 6:35).  The Jews were taken aback by Jesus' claim that He was the bread which came down from Heaven.  They thought He was being metaphorical and didn't really understand.  So Jesus clarified it, in no uncertain terms: "I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I give for the life of the world is my flesh." (Jn 6:51).  

    Still, they didn't understand.  Jesus clarified it yet again: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." (Jn 6:53-54).

    These statements by Jesus foretold more than the Last Supper, after all, Jesus was not one to say things without deep reflection and meaning.  Here, Jesus was also foretelling how it was that the living Church He would leave behind Him would use this as a means to bring people to Him (remember above: Jn 6:34 - "Lord, give us this bread always").  The Eucharist is a tool, not an end.  Notice how Jesus chose to use bread as His tool.  Manna, the gift from God prior to His coming and to be the gift from God after His going (physically, of course) through the Church He established.

    We don't take these statements literally in the sense that you must merely take of the Eucharist in order to be saved.  For in order to receive the Eucharist, you must live according to Jesus' example and rules, which is the true path to Him.  In order to receive the Eucharist, you must be without mortal sin and clear of conscience.  You must believe that It is, in fact, the actual body and blood of Jesus, made so by the power of the Holy Spirit as instructed by Jesus. 

    When Jesus made these remarks (and many others), He made them in full knowledge of how the Church He would establish through Peter would operate (for all time until He would return).  He knew His Church would follow his instructions to celebrate the Eucharist and how it would be that people would participate in receiving it.  How wonderful a gift!  Jesus knew all that was and would be.

    As such, receiving the Eucharist (according to the rules) assures that we are living as Jesus intended, thereby keeping us on the path to eternal life.  There is no easy way to Heaven.  We must struggle every second against our nature.

    God Bless and Stay Safe.
     
  11. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Preachers:

    First, WELCOME to Christian Forums!

    And secondly, thank you so much for an AWESOME explanation of the Bread of Life discourse. I especially enjoyed the part where you say the Eucharist is a TOOL. By itself, a tool does nothing. But when you USE that tool, you can achieve wonders.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  12. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    +538
    Catholic
    US-Others
    I'm scared of believing that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus. Is that the same thing as rebellion? Will that send me to Hell? I can't believe in it right now, it's just too much for me. I'm trying really hard to believe in Catholic stuff, but I'm having a hard time. :(
     
  13. I can eat 50 eggs

    I can eat 50 eggs what we have here is a failure to communicate

    +16
    Christian
    Why are you having a hard time with it?
     
  14. dignitized

    dignitized Well-Known Member

    +724
    I have to say, that while the Eucharist is not required in my understanding to attain salvation, I must in light of John 6:53 question any claims towards the possession of salvation by any man who denies the veracity of the Real Presence of God in the Eucharist. The sacraments cannot save us, but they can impart to us saving grace.
     
  15. dignitized

    dignitized Well-Known Member

    +724
    Humble, The Eucharist is a mystery. Ask God to show you beyond a shadow of a doubt the reality of God in the Eucharist - He can and will do that.

    I know of a person who doubted the reality of the Eucharist and prayed to God the He would show her. She forgot about the prayer for a while until one day at Mass she saw something that made a believer out of her. She saw the corpus of the Cross above the alter come off the cross and descend upon the Host being absorbed into it.
     
  16. cleon

    cleon New Member

    59
    +0
    Catholics, of which I was one are blind to the teaching of the scriptures. They are taught to believe that the wafer is God and they are decieved to worship that which is graven with the hands of man. Christ was speaking in parables in John chapter 6, which they take literally.

    "Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them"
     
  17. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    You're an ex-Catholic, eh? You're also on your way to being an ex-member of Christian Forums. Check the anti-Catholic garbage at the door.

    -Chris
     
  18. cleon

    cleon New Member

    59
    +0
    What is the true bread of life???

    When the children of Israel hungered God provided manna 40 years in the wilderness. Moses said, “This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat” (Exodus 16:15). Paul said, all did “eat the same spiritual meat” (1Corinthians 10:3), but this manna was real physical food to nourish their bodies. God did provide them manna to meet their physical needs, but some did learn “that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD” (Deuteronomy 8:3).

    How often Israel was charged, “All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live” (Deuteronomy 8:1). Likewise, they would perish if they “would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God” (v. 20). God had given them words to live by but they had “an evil heart of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:12). They heard the gospel just as we “but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it” (Hebrews 4:2). If they truly believed the Word of God, they would have hearkened unto the Lord. A living faith is always coupled with repentance (Luke 13:3) and works (James 2:14, 24, 26). Paul said “the righteousness of God [is] revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith” (Romans 1:17).

    When Jesus was challenged to perform a miracle by His unbelieving disciples, to produce bread from heaven as their fathers ate in the wilderness, Jesus replied, “the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world … I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst” (John 6:33, 35).

    The Lord not only claimed to have sent the Bread, but also claimed to be that Bread sent from heaven. Jesus said, “I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world” (John 6:48-51).

    How then can we eat such “living bread” as this? Not as the children of Israel ate manna in the wilderness and are dead, but this bread whereby we shall live forever? Jesus said, “It is the spirit that quickeneth (gives life) …the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63). Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1), He is the "Word of Life" (1John 1:1), and He has given us His Word: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47).

    The Word of God is more than our “necessary food” (Job 23:12). How many of the saints have been filled and satisfied therewith. “Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart” (Jeremiah 15:16). “How sweet are thy words unto my taste! Yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!” (Psalm 119:103). Have you had your portion today? “The gospel of Christ … is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth” (Romans 1:16). “Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures … he was buried, and … he rose again the third day according to the scriptures” (1Corinthians 15:3-4). This is “the gospel … by which also ye are saved … unless ye have believed in vain” (v. 1-2).
     
  19. Lynn

    Lynn Veteran

    +99
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Republican
    give it a rest, will you. you're not going to change anyone's mind in here and you're just trying to sow seeds of dissention. this isn't the place for it.
     
  20. cleon

    cleon New Member

    59
    +0
    Kern, who is the anti-catholic? I am Pro-Catholic. I love them all.
     
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