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EU: Future agreements with Israel won't apply to territories (Dan. 9:27?)

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Paxton25, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. Paxton25

    Paxton25 Forgiven

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    The EU said all of its agreements with Israel “must unequivocally and explicitly indicate their inapplicability to the territories occupied by Israel in 1967, namely the Golan Heights; the West Bank, including east Jerusalem; and the Gaza Strip.”

    The council called for full implementation of existing EU legislations and bilateral arrangements applicable to settlement products.

    The statement was part of a larger document on the Israeli- Palestinian conflict published at the end of the EU Foreign Affairs Council’s monthly meeting.

    Jerusalem says guideline will make it impossible to sign accords with Brussels without recognizing in writing that West Bank settlements are not part of Israel.

    EU: Treaties with Israel apply only to pre-’67 lines | JPost | Israel News

    *There's still a glimmer of 'hope' for those who were looking at EU-Israel agreements and expecting the EU to break them as a sign of the Great Tribulation. All we need now is for Jerusalem to start building its 3rd Temple;)

    Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.
     
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  2. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    wrong epoch, wrong parties. and even Josephus thought Dan 9 was about the catastrophe of 66+ speaking as a trained priest. and you do realize Islam is unreformable about sacred sites?
     
  3. Paxton25

    Paxton25 Forgiven

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    New EU directive bars all dealings with Israeli-held areas over the pre-1967 lines | The Times of Israel

    This formal announcement from the EU came on the 9th of Av, historically the most cursed day in Israel's history.
    What happened on the Ninth of Av? - A Historical Overview - Tisha B'Av and the 3 Weeks

    Also to note, whenever a nation messes with God's Holy Land by trying to force the Israeli govt. to give it away or to partition it, they tend to suffer calamities of Biblical proportions.
    Natural Disasters and Harming Israel | Heaven Awaits

    I wouldn't want to be living anywhere near Brussels or in the EU right now. Watch and see what happens.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hi Paxon, interesting news, but before the confirming of the covenant of Daniel 9, for 7 years, the ten king EU kingdom ruling body of the EU must first come into existence. Then the Antichrist will emerge out of that group.

    We don't have that yet.

    Then when it comes to confirming the covenant for 7 years, by the Antichrist, that is the Mt. Sinai covenant Deuteronomy 31:10-11, the 7 year cycle of commemoratively reading Moses' instructions to go in and possess the land.

    Which will come immediately following Gog/Magog, which the Antichrist little horn coming out of Europe will appear to the Jews to be their great king messiah, King of Israel.

    From Judaism101.com.

    The Antichrist will first emerge in a Political setting, coming up among ten kings of EU, that ruling body. When Gog/Magog appears imminent, the little horn, a Jew, will stage his army in western Greece, north and west of Israel, prepared to defend Israel and bring peace to the region.

    Gog/Magog swoops down, and to block the invasion the little horn begins to move his EU army toward Israel, coming in great power (Daniel 8, the little horn growing strong to the south and east toward Israel).

    He arrives a day late and a dollar short, as God supernaturally destroys the Gog/Magog invaders before they reach Jerusalem.

    But the Jews, with their enemies decimated, the Muslims removed from control of the temple mount, the arrival of the little horn who came to defend them, will in their minds lead them to believe that he is their long awaited king messiah, to lead them into the messianic age of peace and safety.

    Fancying himself in that role, he will oversee the commemorative reading of Moses's instructions of Deuteronomy 31:10-11 from the Temple mount for the 7 year cycle.

    So we are a little ways off, for now. The next event, in the end times prophecies for us to look for is that formation of the ten king (leaders) ruling body in the EU.

    Doug
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  5. Interplanner

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    You're more than a little ways off. If the visions meant anything along this line, it was about what happened in the 1st cent., which is why the phrase 'the rebellion that causes desolation' turns into 'the abomination...' and Josephus, trained as a priest, at least had that right. You're off by an epoch, and Christ used the original Daniel materials about the 1st century so that...'the reader would understand.' (He was not a space case telling desperate people about things 3000 years off; he answered practical questions about what they would face because that is what they asked about).

    You are only missing the point that the Christian era intentionally does come with new energy and definitions from day 1--or earlier. That is true because of God's decree (epitagen) that the prophetic writings be about Christ so that the mission to the nations would launch and thrive, Rom 16.

    A NT believer takes the NT's own self-organizing statements (Rom 16) about itself; otherwise you are in Judaism. Keep that in mind. You have to decide which you believe. When Rambam says it is better to use maschiach, that's only institutionalizing Judaism against the Christian message. If that's true, then we should all be chopping out Luke 1-3 of our Bibles, and more. Better drop 4 too, with its pesky demons who know he is Messiah, and the gospel of the kingdom--a kingdom which is simply anywhere God rules, not a political entity. Then there's all those sinners in 5-7, and tax-collectors, good grief. How unpatriotic! How unJudaic! Actually doing Rome's admin work for them and shifting all that money away from the kingdom! And what a ridiculous Jesus who lives up in Galilee where there are all kinds of sympathizers to a revolt against Rome, but instead of enlisting them in an armed kingdom, he has dinner with those the rebels despise and tells them to repent of extortion and adultery. then there's all that nonsense in 6 about loving enemies, so its a good thing we got rid of 6. That's no way to answer Roman soldiers.

    Prob the most important line in all this is 7:23. Blessed is he who does not fall away on account of me. Oh, really? So everyone was ready to have a king, a warrior, a revolt leader and with all the signs, they were wondering whether to expect someone else. But he would disappoint because he was there to save from sins.

    so at least by 9, things are cleared up enough that we might be able to save all of Luke. Because now we see that the twelve go out to preach the gospel (not gospel about a kingdom, just gospel) and that Messiah is to suffer for sins and rise vindicated, and that it really took bravery for that generation to believe he was Messiah, to differ from what Judaism said, and that the kingdom he was speaking of would come in their time. In fact, he would fulfill the event known as the Exodus, and do that at Jerusalem.

    So we've saved the book of Luke, and Rambam will just have update his files and realize that it takes just as much bravery to believe on this Messiah as back then. He's not maschiach, and he makes that very clear to the people who wanted maschiach the most in his own generation. If you are ashamed of that, you have to work that out with God (9:26).

    There are people in my evangelistic conversations who never allow for the possibility of God's existence. That is the beginning of faith, to realize that it is a least a possible explanation of our world. Rambam does not allow for the possibility that the Christian Messiah was there all along. He sounds the same as the a-theist people, but we would call it a-Messianic. It will be best if he at least allows for the possibility.
     
  6. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    This is NOT the focus of God...but the focus of "futurism".

    God's "Israel" is all over the world...and the EU can't make a treaty with them...nor would they want to.

    Get in the Spirit! Understand Jesus is running the show from the right hand of God...Jesus has all power!

    Nothing the EU, US, Russia, China, Iraq, or anyone else for that matter, is going to stop the Church empowered through Jesus.

    The "Israel of God" which is all believers regardless of race...is the Lord's focus...:thumbsup: :amen: :clap:
     
  7. Paxton25

    Paxton25 Forgiven

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    You seem to subscribe to some brand of Replacement Theology. That stuff belongs in the trash.

    Get into the Scriptures! Romans 9-11, Daniel 9, & Zechariah 1 (the Quartet) would be good places for you to start. No serious student of Scripture writes off the Holy Land of Israel or the Jews.
     
  8. Bible2

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    Regarding "The Antichrist will first emerge in a Political setting", that's right.

    Regarding "ten kings of EU", are you thinking of ten nations of Western Europe? If so, note that the Antichrist won't have to emerge from there. For in Daniel 7, the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). And the 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman Empire. And the 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman Empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

    But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand, and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other, could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one confederation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who brings this about could be the Antichrist. The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country.

    And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman Empire. And before that, it was part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

    The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist confederation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This confederation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

    This Baathist confederation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control over all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control over different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

    Regarding "When Gog/Magog appears imminent", note that the Gog/Magog attack on Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39) won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11). This is the exact opposite of today's situation, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls, and is in constant fear of attack. At the beginning of the millennium, all present-day weapons of war will be destroyed, and they won't be allowed to be remade during the millennium (Micah 4:3-4). That's why after the millennium, the Gog/Magog armies will employ only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields, and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which, after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies, will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect or cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:10).

    The Gog in Revelation 20:8 is the same as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39: an individual human leader whose personal name is "Gog" (Ezekiel 38:3). He could be born near the end of the millennium, and he will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog attack (Ezekiel 39:11). The Gog/Magog armies are defeated by fire from heaven in both accounts of the attack (Ezekiel 38:22, Revelation 20:9). While the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the defeat of the Gog/Magog attack (Revelation 20:7-15), nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the great white throne judgment has to happen immediately after the defeat of the attack. For there will be at least 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the defeat of the Gog/Magog attack and the great white throne judgment.

    Also, the Gog/Magog attack won't have to (as is sometimes claimed) involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could be just a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus' worldwide kingdom, still legally under his rule, just as they had been during the preceding millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2). But after the millennium, they will be deceived by Satan into committing the attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

    Also, while the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could suffer a different attack at the start of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which attack could result in Israel's total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17).

    And Jerusalem could be attacked in the future at least 3 times before the millennium: once near the start of the future tribulation (Daniel 11:22), then again mid-tribulation (Daniel 11:31), and then at the tribulation's end (Daniel 11:45), right before Jesus' 2nd coming and the start of the millennium (Zechariah 14:2-21).

    Regarding "the little horn, a Jew", note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Judaism in its past and current form, insofar as Judaism worships YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), whereas the Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:5). And Judaism rejects Lucifer/Satan as being evil (Zechariah 3:2, Isaiah 14:12), whereas the Antichrist will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer/Satan (the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). And Judaism forbids the worship of any images (Leviticus 26:1), whereas the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15).

    Regarding the idea of the Antichrist being Jewish by blood, both his parents could be Arabs (if his mother wasn't impregnated by Satan). But from some long-ago ancestor, the Antichrist could also have some Jewish blood in him, from the tribe of Dan (Genesis 49:17), which could be the reason that the tribe of Dan isn't included in the 12 tribes of the 144,000 (Revelation 7:4-8; there, "Joseph" stands for Ephraim: Numbers 1:32, Psalms 78:67, Ezekiel 37:16b,19).

    The Antichrist could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the 2nd coming of a God-man named "Hakim". The Antichrist's last name could be "Hakim", and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the 2nd coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely-devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the first stage of his world takeover) and employ them as loyal spies at all levels of his United Arab government and military.

    The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates isn't even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who haven't been initiated into its highest level.

    Regarding "their long awaited king messiah", note that "Anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the first century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

    Nothing requires that the Antichrist will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ, for his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (i.e. the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

    But none of this means that there won't also be multiple false human Christs who will arise during the tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a), promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a) a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
     
  9. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Yeah...Romans 9 kinda makes you look foolish too...because you disregard Romans 9:6, 7:
    6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
    7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but:“through Isaac your descendants will be named.”

    Tell me who is the "THEY" that are not descended from Israel?

    Not pay attention real close:
    8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

    Now...WHO are the "children of promise"? I'm going to let Paul tell you that in Romans 4:13:
    13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

    So...if Abraham's promise comes "through the righteousness of faith" EVERYONE saved by faith is a descendant of Abraham!!!

    Paul tells you this plainly in Galatians 3:29
    29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

    The ony things that belongs "in the trash"...is your line of thinking. It's not "replacement theology"...it's God's word through His apostles!!!

    Now...you skip over Paul telling you you are a "spiritual Jew"...and that's how you miss the WHOLE MESSAGE. Romans 2:28, 29:
    28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
    29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


    Read that as many times as you want!!! When you believe it..let me know...BECAUSE IT'S REAL!!!

    EVERYONE SAVED is a spiritual Jew!!! That's is the true ISRAEL!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The reason it (the ten nations makeup you are suggesting) won't happen that way is because the ten kings align with the Antichrist- beast for the last 42 months. Beginning in Daniel 11:36, it talks about the Antichrist-beast in the last 42 months. He is attacked from the north, south, and news from the east troubles him. Which would mean his power base is from the west, which are those ten kings... which are Western Europe.

    Doug
     
  11. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Bible2, if you really want an exchange, just post 1-2 lines, and I would be glad to interact. I know all the passages you will quote in advance, so skip that part.

    If you don't want an exchange, why are you here?
     
  12. Interplanner

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    Not only is EbedM, correct, but this whole posts misses the point of Jesus quoting Dan 9 and timestamping it as having to do with the disaster of 66+ in Judea. The NT quotes of the OT always trump, guys.
     
  13. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Bible2, if you want to exchange, if you want any feedback, make 1-2 comments. You're not worth reading as much as you write.

    If you don't want feedback, what does that tell you?

    Did you ever realize that the historical tense in which I read Mt 24 & //s has nothing to do with Judean churches today?
     
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