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Eternal punishment or annihilation?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by samwise gamgee, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. samwise gamgee

    samwise gamgee Member Supporter

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    The Bible tells us that we are all sinners. Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead to atone for our sins, and anyone who repents and puts his faith in him will be forgiven and receive eternal life. After this life is over we will be with Christ for all eternity. But this is the fate of all who fail to do this.

    Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

    Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
    Revelation 20:11-15 ESV

    The lake of fire is the final destination for all whose sins have not been forgiven. This is something that anyone who believes the Bible accepts. But what happens to them after they are in the lake? There are different opinions about this. Some people think they suffer there forever; others think they are annihilated.

    Here is something the Bible says that is often overlooked when this issue is discussed.

    Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
    Philippians 2:9-11 ESV

    Those under the earth must be those who have been condemned to Hell. Obviously if they are annihilated they couldn’t bow to Jesus or confess him as Lord. This proves that Hell is a place of eternal punishment, not a place where those who go cease to exist.

    This answers our question but it bring up another one. It isn’t surprising that those in Heaven and earth will one day bow to Jesus and confess him as Lord but why would those in Hell honor the one who has sentenced them to a punishment that will never end? The answer is found in this statement, “Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it.” Before being sentenced to the lake of fire each of them will see God. The prophet Isaiah once had a vision of God. This is his experience.

    In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called to another and said:

    “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts;
    the whole earth is full of his glory!”

    And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”
    Isaiah 6:1-5 ESV

    Isaiah was a prophet of God. Before he had this vision he had already given the prophecies found in the first five chapters of his book. Yet the sight of God’s holiness made him realize he was only a sinner. If he felt this way, what would be the reaction of someone who had never even tried to serve God?

    God is the source of prefect light. When we stand in his presence we will see God as he really is and we will see ourselves as we are. In our present lives we are living in darkness and Satan tries to blind us the the truth. God has given us light through the Bible, but many reject it and even those of us who accept the light are still prevented by our sinful natures from comprehending it fully.

    One result is that many believe that eternal punishment is more than our sins deserve and some even think that God is cruel and vindictive. When we die all of these misconceptions will be stripped away. Those who die in their sins will recognize that God is just and that they deserve the punishment they are about to experience. Those whose sins have been forgiven will for the first time understand the full extent of God’s love in sending his Son to die for us.​
     
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  2. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Revelation 22, of interest is this verse, it says they 'are', which implies an existence, not that they have evaporated into nothing as in totally burned up in the lake of fire or then it would have said 'were'

    'But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.'

    Jesus Testifies to the Churches
    12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

    14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

    15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

    16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

    17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
     
  3. Rubiks

    Rubiks armchair linguist

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    *reads the title*

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Rubiks

    Rubiks armchair linguist

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    Ironically this verse proves exactly annihilation. Sheol/Hades weren't tormented forever, they ceased to exist.
     
  5. Rubiks

    Rubiks armchair linguist

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    Annihilationists still believe and a future resurrection and judgement. Neither A or ECT require or prohibit the unrighteous from confessing Jesus as lord.
     
  6. Rubiks

    Rubiks armchair linguist

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    Nope. After the resurrection and judgement, the unrighteous are thrown out in Gehenna whereas the righteous get to go inside the gates of Jerusalem.

    Revelation uses Jerusalem and Gehenna (the valley located outside the gates of Jerusalem) as a figure for what the new heavens and new earth will be like. Nobody was in Gehenna.
     
  7. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    In order to consistently hold to annihilationism, you must rework the gospel and what Christ did at the cross. This I know is for sure is heresy. There is no Christ if there is no Hell.
     
  8. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Disagree ... and not so ... there are 2 resurrections ... the 2nd resurrection is of the unsaved dead (in the grave) ... and after resurrected they will bow down to Him during that time, this is the final judgement, commonly referred to as the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ) and all (unsaved, satan and his minions) are destroyed (consumed with eternal fire from heaven) along with the earth and everything in it.

    True.

    and that punishment (not punishing for eternity) is they will be destroyed and NOT receive eternal life, never to exist again.
     
  9. samwise gamgee

    samwise gamgee Member Supporter

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    Hades will cease to exist because it won't be needed anymore. The souls in it will be thrown into the lake of fire and they will exist forever.
     
  10. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I disagree with that. It can be those who are in the grave, or in the Hades. I think hell is a place where people are destroyed, because:

    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. …
    Matt. 10:28

    And it is eternal solution, because there is no coming back, after one is utterly destroyed.
     
  11. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    Annihilation fits the overall picture of what the Scriptures present - it wasn’t until Greek influence became prevalent that people started thinking souls were tortured forever in “hell”.

    God told us over and over that the wicked would be destroyed, that they were like flowers and grass that withered and went away. They would be cut off, destroyed etc. read Psalms 37

    Sodom & Gomorrah experienced “eternal fire”, and they are GONE. they’re not still burning. They were wiped out.

    Jude 1:7
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
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