Eternal Punishment and God's Mercy

FreeGrace2

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Gr8Grace said:
Seems someone has not listened the many times before. It's very true that your not debating FreeGrace. Your debating calvinism, and can't hear a word of truth FreeGrace/The bible has presented.
a voice from the peanut gallery.
Yet, you posted this, in #16:
"So, the only things that will get me to address your points is calm reasoned discussion."

This shows that it's the other posters who have a reasoned discussion, unlike your own responses.

How was your response to Gr8Grace either reasoned, or even a discussion?
 
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FreeGrace2

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You said, "Are you serious? Jesus was speaking of going to the cross. If you didn't know that, you've got a whole lot of catching up to do. lol"

Rather than address what I posted you just wrote it off which is exactly what I intimated in my original reply.
The only response available to me was your attempted explanation about your first point, which was "people don't go to heaven" by quoting John 13:33. And so I explained what Jesus meant by "you can't go where I'm going".

However, to your first point, about "people don't go to heaven", I guess you weren't aware of what Jesus said in John 14:
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Quite obvious that Jesus was speaking of heaven, and the FACT that believers will GO THERE.

So your first point was completely refuted. You have no excuse for such an idea.
 
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Gr8Grace

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a voice from the peanut gallery.
No. It's someone who saw Freegrace's biblical answers to your erroneous list.

And then you saw a voice that called out your nutty responses to a very well put together, biblical explanation to your unbiblical list.
 
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Gr8Grace

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Butch5 said:
But you're not defending the truth, you're defending Calvin's doctrines.

FreeGrace said~~More proof that you aren't even paying attention. I already told you I'm NOT a Calvinist. I've debated them for years as well.

It seems you're the one not paying attention. I said I've debated Calvinists. You're using the same tactics.

The voice from the peanut gallery is paying attention!

~~~~~~

And the voice from the peanut gallery is just amazed to watch smart, functional adults turn into irrational, dysfunctional adults when presented with the truth of Gods Word.
 
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Inagony

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In Closing:

Then there is the Doctrine of Eternal Life. You can rest assured that if you have TRULY placed your TRUST in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and came before the Cross with a broken and contrite spirit -- then you are secure in your Salvation.

Jesus told His disciples not to rejoice that the demons are subject to them; but rather to rejoice that their NAMES are WRITTEN in Heaven (Luke 10:20). What is also interesting is that the NAMES of the Apostles are LITERALLY written in Heaven; i.e., the walls of the Eternal City and its Foundations (Revelation 21:14). Jesus has gone to prepare a place in Heaven for those who Love Him; as He has done with the 12 Apostles Of The Lamb. Is your name written in Heaven? Has a place been prepared for you?

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

"But to us there is but ONE GOD, [the Father], of whom are all things, and we in him; and ONE LORD [Jesus Christ], by whom are all things, and we by him." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

There is ONE GOD and ONE LORD; and the title GOD and LORD are BOTH equal descriptions of DEITY (1 Cor. 8:6; Deut. 6:4-5). Eternal Life is not only a duration of time; it is also a QUALITY of Life with such variety that is beyond any understanding of the finite mind of man. A REALITY greater than what any man or woman can perceive in this realm of existence (1 Cor. 2:9; 13:12).

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our GOD is ONE Lord: And thou shalt love the LORD thy GOD with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." (Deuteronomy 6:4-5)

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Corinthians 13:12)

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (John 10:27-29)

Jesus said that He gives His sheep Eternal Life; but His sheep are the ones who "continually" hear and follow Him; and know their Chief Shepherd (Jesus) in the most intimate manner. These are "characteristics" of His sheep, and they will NEVER PERISH. The word "never" is a double emphatic negative (similar to Verily, Verily) in the Greek grammar (e.g., "No, not, ever"). The verbs "hear" (akouo), "know" (ginosko) and "follow" (akoloutheo) are all in the present tense, active voice, and the mood is in the indicative. This all suggests that the characteristic's of Jesus sheep will "continue" to "hear, know, and follow" Him.

Some have argued that "as" one of Jesus' sheep, one could ("on their own free will") voluntarily remove or jump out of Jesus' hand -- and therefore "forfeit" their Salvation. The problem with that argument is that the passage says "NO MAN" shall pluck them out of my Hand; this would also include the "sheep" in the hands of BOTH the Father and the Son. If you feel as if you may be able to remove yourself from the clutches of BOTH the Father AND the Son by free-will, then you should ask yourself who it is you are putting your TRUST in? The teaching that one of Jesus' sheep can voluntarily jump out of His hand would not work for several reason -- even using the "free will" argument. The reasons are:

  1. Jesus said that His (possessive pronoun) sheep will not listen to the "voice of strangers" or false shepherds; but will "flee" from them. (John 10:5)
  2. Jesus said that even if one of His sheep wanders off voluntarily, He will leave the 99 in His fold to seek out that sheep that wandered astray [free will and voluntarily].
  3. Jesus said that He is the TRUE shepherd and not a hireling; for hirelings abandon their sheep when there's danger approaching (John 10:12 -- i.e., "wolves").
  4. Jesus is the GOOD SHEPHERD, so He will keep His sheep safe at all times. If Jesus allows one of His sheep to wander off and does nothing about it; how then is He the Good Shepherd? Is this how you feel about Jesus and His Power?
  5. The subject (i.e., "Jesus' sheep") in that passage is in the "reflexive"; meaning that the "subject" (i.e., "Jesus' sheep"; or "you" -- if you are indeed one of His sheep) in the hands of BOTH the Father and the Son will have nothing to do with himself or herself being plucked out.
So my question to you is . . . are you TRULY one of His sheep? A great place to start would be an examination of the fruit of the Spirit. Such as:
  • Love
  • Joy
  • Peace
  • Self-control
  • Kindness
  • Goodness
  • Gentleness
  • Faithfulness
  • Patience
If you are in complete opposition to these Spiritual fruits, then that is a "red flag" that you may not be saved, or you were never saved to begin with. When we are born-again, we are "new" creatures in Christ, and sin will NOT have dominion over us during our life (cf. Matt. 3:8; Rom. 12:2-3; 2 Cor. 5:17; Heb. 6:1; 1 Jn. 3:9; 5:4; et al.). As we progress spiritually, we will have a greater hatred towards sin, and keep the commandments because we want to please God and display our Love for Him because He first LOVED us.

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting CONTEMPT. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever." (Daniel 12:2-3)

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have [entered into THE HEART OF MAN], the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." (1 Corinthians 2:9)

"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:7-9)

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15)

"And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: BUT THEY WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE." (Revelation 21:24-27)

God Bless!
Light could you pm me please
 
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