Eschatology for dummies :)

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,



There are many mysteries of the gospel that the Holy Spirit revealed through Paul. Each time the revealed mystery relates to the surrounding context, for example:

Mystery revealed: gentiles are fellow members of the body and fellow partakers in the promise
Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus.

Mystery revealed: the church is to reveal the wisdom of God to rulers and authorities.
Ephesians 3:9-10 and to illuminate for everyone the stewardship of this mystery, which for ages past was hidden in God, who created all things. His purpose was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms

Mystery revealed: Israel was hardened for the salvation of the gentiles.
Romans 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:d a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Mystery revealed: the riches, which is Christ in you, is made knows among the gentiles.
Colossians 1:26-27 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

Mystery revealed: the gospel
Ephesians 6:18-19 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel

Mystery revealed: the resurrection
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Mystery revealed: godliness through Christ appearing in the flesh
1 Timothy 3:16 By common confession, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,c was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory.

The context is Ephesians 5 is marriage, so let's stick with Ephesians 5.



The Mystery revealed in Ephesians 3 is not that the Jews were a part of the body of Christ, but that the gentiles were fellow partakers in the body of Christ through the gospel.

Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus.



Marriage is the context of Paul's discussion in Ephesians 5. Paul reveals that as man is the head of his wife so to is Christ the head of the church. He even goes farther to state that man and woman becoming 1 flesh is a profound mystery that refers to Christ and the Church.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.

Ephesians 5:29-32 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

This is one of the revealed mysteries of the Bible, why did God give us marriage? The immediate context (type) was for companionship and procreation

Genesis 2:18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth

The ultimate fulfillment (antitype) in the true spiritual reality: Christ and the church

Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church



And Paul reveals that man and woman becoming 1 flesh refers to the Christ and his Church

Ephesians 5:29-32 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

Paul also compares the church as pure virgin betrothed to Christ. Another example of the church being referred to as the bride.

2 Corinthians 2:11 I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ

Hi claninja,

I see that we wont reach an agreement on this point. I see the mystery point to Christ and His body, (it) you see it pointing to the `wife,` (her).

As to the other scripture, you would have to go against Jesus` word when He says He would present us to Himself NOT Paul. (Jude 24 as I quoted earlier)

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

This doesn't answer my question. you seem to be side stepping. This is a simple yes or no answer, so i'll ask again:

Is the wife the bride of the husband?

This seems to change the topic a little, we weren't discussion divorce. So I'll ask my questions again, simply yes or no will suffice:

Do you agree, the husband is the head of the wife, just Christ is the head of the Church?

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body

Do you agree the wife is the body of the husband, just as the church is body of Christ?

Ephesians 5:28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church.

Do you agree that the wife and husband are one flesh?

Ephesians 5:31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

Hi claninja,

The woman is a bride BEFORE married and a wife AFTER marriage. So the wife is NOT the bride of the husband, she is the wife, (but had been his bride). Just as a bride is NOT the wife of the man until she marries him.

The scripture tells us that the Lord will marry His wife and that is because He divorced her previously, as Hosea had to do. That is the type. And I have shown you who is the bride, the one betrothed to the Lord, (Hosea 2: 19). God has said He is Israel`s husband. ( (Isa. 54: 5, Jer. 31: 32)

`"Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was a HUSBAND to them," says the Lord.` (Jer. 31: 32)

Marilyn.

 

[claninja]

Hi Marilyn,

I see the mystery point to Christ and His body, (it) you see it pointing to the `wife,` (her).

If you have been reading my posts, you would see that I have never stated the mystery points to the wife. Please provide 1 instance in any of my posts where I have specifically that the mystery points to the wife.

I have only ever stated that Paul revealed that man and woman becoming 1 flesh is a mystery that refers to the Christ and the church.

My whole point the entire time is that just as the law pointed to Christ, so to does marriage point to Christ.

Why did God give mankind marriage (2 becoming 1 flesh)? Paul reveals that God gave us marriage to point to Christ and the Church.

Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

As to the other scripture, you would have to go against Jesus` word when He says He would present us to Himself NOT Paul. (Jude 24 as I quoted earlier)

Marilyn, your deflecting, changing the topic again. I used this passage only to show that church is compared to the wife of Christ.

Can you answer this simple question? In the following verse who is the "you" being betrothed to one husband?

2 Corinthians 11:2 I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi claninja,

The woman is a bride BEFORE married and a wife AFTER marriage. So the wife is NOT the bride of the husband, she is the wife, (but had been his bride). Just as a bride is NOT the wife of the man until she marries him.

The scripture tells us that the Lord will marry His wife and that is because He divorced her previously, as Hosea had to do. That is the type. And I have shown you who is the bride, the one betrothed to the Lord, (Hosea 2: 19). God has said He is Israel`s husband. ( (Isa. 54: 5, Jer. 31: 32)

`"Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was a HUSBAND to them," says the Lord.` (Jer. 31: 32)

Marilyn.

Those passages interested me so much I devoted a thread for them.
Note that Yahweh mentions both Israel and Judah in Jere 31:31 and Heb 8:8.

But in Jere 31:33 and Heb 8:10 Judah is missing. Remember, Judah retained the Levitical Priesthood.
[This thread is fairly old and may need some "refinement"....]

New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 Hebrew 8
Jan 3, 2009.

1166 ba`al baw-al' a primitive root; to be master; hence, (as denominative from 1167) to marry:--have dominion (over), be husband, marry(-ried, X wife).

Jeremiah 31:
31 Behold! days, ones coming a declaration of Yahweh
and I Cut a New Covenant with the house of Yisra'el and with the house of Y@huwdah
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband<1166> to them, says Yahweh.
33 That this the Covenant which I shall Cut with House of Yisra'el after those days, declarations of Yahweh.
I give My Law within them and on their heart I shall write it,
and I become to them for an Elohim,
and they shall become to Me for a people.

Hebrews 8:
8 "For faulting to them He is saying 'behold! days are coming, is saying Lord,
and I shall be together finishing upon the House of Israel and upon the House of Judah a New Covenant,
9 Not according as the Covenant which I make to their fathers,
in day of taking of Me their hand, to be leading them out of land of Egypt,
that they not remain in My Covenant, and I, I un-care of them, is saying LORD.
10 That this the Covenant which I shall be Covenanting to the House of Israel after those days, is saying LORD.
Giving My laws into their minds and upon their hearts I shall be engraving them.
And I shall to them into a God, and they shall be to Me into a People.

Jesus has taken the place of the OC house of Judah and it's Temple/Priesthood services:

Eze 37:22
And I have made them become one nation in the land on mountains of Israel,
And one King is to them all for king,
And they are no more as two nations,
Nor are they divided any more into two kingdoms again.

I recommend a study on this covenantle parable:

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:
27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' "

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham. He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity.
He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

 

[claninja]

Hi Marilyn,

Hi claninja,

The woman is a bride BEFORE married and a wife AFTER marriage. So the wife is NOT the bride of the husband, she is the wife, (but had been his bride). Just as a bride is NOT the wife of the man until she marries him.

This is where it becomes important to understand how ancient jewish marriages worked, to get a sense of the context.

There were 2 ceremonies: 1.) the betrothal 2.) consummation/ the wedding feast

1.) the betrothal
A contract was arranged between the husband to be and the bride. Once the contract was signed, both parties would be considered "married", although the 2 would not live together nor consummate the marriage until the time of the wedding feast. During this time the woman would be considered a bride. The time between betrothal and wedding feast could last a long time ( for example: 7 years for Jacob). A date would then be set for the time to consummate the marriage.

2.) Consummation/Wedding feast
Once the husband and bride consummated the marriage, the wedding feast would immediately come after. After the wedding feast, the 2 would then be husband and wife and live together.

We can see that this points to Christ and the Church. We are betrothed the lamb and are his bride, while we live on earth with the Spirit as a guarantee of the resurrection. We look forward to the day when we live with him in heaven.

The scripture tells us that the Lord will marry His wife and that is because He divorced her previously, as Hosea had to do. That is the type. And I have shown you who is the bride, the one betrothed to the Lord, (Hosea 2: 19). God has said He is Israel`s husband. ( (Isa. 54: 5, Jer. 31: 32)

`"Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was a HUSBAND to them," says the Lord.` (Jer. 31: 32)

The new covenant was instituted during the first century with Israel (elect Jews and gentiles).

Hebrews 10:14-18 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi Marilyn,

The new covenant was instituted during the first century with Israel (elect Jews and gentiles).

Hebrews 10:14-18 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Good post claninja. There has been some question about whether our Lord Jesus came to establish a brand spanking NC or renew the OC
This thread may interest you and others...or not:

Did Christ come to establish a New or Renewed Covenant with Israel?

Did Christ come to establish a New or Renewed Covenant with Israel?
Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Jan 6, 2011.

Kainos..not neos, not only new in time, but unused, unprecedented..

Hebrews 8:8 NASB
For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

Effect in the greek
…sunteleo 4931
Definition:
1) to end together or at the same time
2) to end completely
2a) bring to an end, finish, complete
3) to accomplish, bring to fulfilment
3a) to come to pass
4) to effect, make, (conclude)
5) to finish5a) to make an end of
5b) to bring to an end5c) destroy

New,in the greek.
kainos 2537

Definition:
1) new1a) as respects form
1b) as respects substance1b1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of

I am really surprised that more SDA and MJ haven't jumped on this.

I have a few sticking words from Jeremiah 31 for you to prove that it is not a work over and improvement like a fix for a manufacturing flaw. first the OC was perfect. Now for the sticking words: Make, new and the phrase not according to.

The word make in the Hebrew means to cut. It does not imply to make a fresh end at the old cut on an already felled tree. It is more like felling a new uncut tree. Like my country boy farmer language?

The word new means exactly that. Some like to argue that chadash means renew. The word used however is chadash and means new. They look exactly alike - don't they? The phrase is to make a new. It is further clarified with not according to which means not like or similar to. It simply is unmistakable in meaning.

Chadash and chadash. The chadash that is used in Jer 31 is pronounced khä·däsh' and means new exclusively. the other chadash is pronounced khä·dash' and mean renew as in restore. It is interesting that the words are listed as 2319 and 2318 (order in which I discussed them) and those fighting to say that the word 2318 is used or is the root word to dismiss and establish the desired reults to build the false doctrine.

Then we get to the not according to part. What is it not according to or like? The next phrase is the covenant (what covenant?) that I made with their fathers ... (when did God make this covenant) bring them out of Egypt.

Incidently the word made means to cut down or destroy. Interesting choice of words about the OC in my opinion especially when you read Romans 11:32 or Isa 63:17.

Back to Jeremiah. Deut 4:13 identifies this covenant as the ten commandments. It is further identified and limited in 5:1-3. This specifically excludes everyone else on the planet.

New or Renewal Coveanant

1. *
   It is New
   50 vote(s)
   68.5%
2. It is a Renewal
   13 vote(s)
   17.8%
3. What is the difference?
   3 vote(s)
   4.1%
4. I am not sure
   3 vote(s)
   4.1%
5. Other
   4 vote(s)
   5.5%

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,


If you have been reading my posts, you would see that I have never stated the mystery points to the wife. Please provide 1 instance in any of my posts where I have specifically that the mystery points to the wife.

I have only ever stated that Paul revealed that man and woman becoming 1 flesh is a mystery that refers to the Christ and the church.

My whole point the entire time is that just as the law pointed to Christ, so to does marriage point to Christ.

Why did God give mankind marriage (2 becoming 1 flesh)? Paul reveals that God gave us marriage to point to Christ and the Church.

Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.



Marilyn, your deflecting, changing the topic again. I used this passage only to show that church is compared to the wife of Christ.

Can you answer this simple question? In the following verse who is the "you" being betrothed to one husband?

2 Corinthians 11:2 I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.

Hi Claninja,

Sorry my post came over as `deflecting.` I so hate that myself. It was not intentional, but part of the trying to understand each other. So please accept my apologies. If it happens again please point it out again.

So...your point is the `marriage`(2 becoming 1 flesh) points to Christ and His Body. (hope that`s said right). However because Paul says what the Body is in the previous chapters - a new man (mankind), then that is what the Body still is. The emphasis is on exhorting to love, as Christ does His Body. However I do realise that we need to discuss more of your points to get a better view of this topic.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

Can you answer this simple question? In the following verse who is the "you" being betrothed to one husband?

2 Corinthians 11:2 I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.

Hi Claninja,

`Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the church of God which is at CORINTH, with all the saints who are in all ACHAIA.` (2 Cor. 1: 1)

The `you` the Paul refers to throughout his letter to the Corinthians, (and those in Achaia) is the Corinthians, his disciples. There are truths we can apply to us today, but obviously there are things that Paul is specifically saying to his disciples.

Now may I ask you, `Is it the Lord or Paul who will present us to the Lord? I quoted Jude 24 as my response.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,



This is where it becomes important to understand how ancient jewish marriages worked, to get a sense of the context.

There were 2 ceremonies: 1.) the betrothal 2.) consummation/ the wedding feast

1.) the betrothal
A contract was arranged between the husband to be and the bride. Once the contract was signed, both parties would be considered "married", although the 2 would not live together nor consummate the marriage until the time of the wedding feast. During this time the woman would be considered a bride. The time between betrothal and wedding feast could last a long time ( for example: 7 years for Jacob). A date would then be set for the time to consummate the marriage.

2.) Consummation/Wedding feast
Once the husband and bride consummated the marriage, the wedding feast would immediately come after. After the wedding feast, the 2 would then be husband and wife and live together.

We can see that this points to Christ and the Church. We are betrothed the lamb and are his bride, while we live on earth with the Spirit as a guarantee of the resurrection. We look forward to the day when we live with him in heaven.




The new covenant was instituted during the first century with Israel (elect Jews and gentiles).

Hebrews 10:14-18 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Hi Claninja,

So...can you show me the scriptures that tell us that the Body of Christ is - a woman, a bride, a wife, will marry Jesus, is betrothed, etc etc?

Marilyn.

 

[claninja]

The `you` the Paul refers to throughout his letter to the Corinthians, (and those in Achaia) is the Corinthians, his disciples. There are truths we can apply to us today, but obviously there are things that Paul is specifically saying to his disciples.

Correct, the "you" are the Corinthian disciples who are compared to A FEMALE, pure virgin, being BETROTHED to one husband, who is Christ.

Would you say these disciples from Corinth are a part of the church?

Hi Claninja,

`Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the church of God which is at CORINTH, with all the saints who are in all ACHAIA.` (2 Cor. 1: 1)

The `you` the Paul refers to throughout his letter to the Corinthians, (and those in Achaia) is the Corinthians, his disciples. There are truths we can apply to us today, but obviously there are things that Paul is specifically saying to his disciples.

Now may I ask you, `Is it the Lord or Paul who will present us to the Lord? I quoted Jude 24 as my response.

Marilyn.

One need only to understand how ancient marriages work to understand the distinction.

Again, as explained in the above post #265, there are 2 aspects of ancient marriages: 1.) betrothal 2.) consummation/wedding feast. Using this distinction in the different aspects of ancient marriage we can see the difference.


Paul betrothed the church to Christ (part 1: the betrothal)

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ

But it is Christ, the groom, who brings the already betrothed bride into his glorious presence. (part 2: the consummation and wedding feast).

Jude 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy—

 

[Marilyn C]

Correct, the "you" are the Corinthian disciples who are compared to A FEMALE, pure virgin, being BETROTHED to one husband, who is Christ.

Would you say these disciples from Corinth are a part of the church?



One need only to understand how ancient marriages work to understand the distinction.

Again, as explained in the above post #265, there are 2 aspects of ancient marriages: 1.) betrothal 2.) consummation/wedding feast. Using this distinction in the different aspects of ancient marriage we can see the difference.


Paul betrothed the church to Christ (part 1: the betrothal)

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ

But it is Christ, the groom, who brings the already betrothed bride into his glorious presence. (part 2: the consummation and wedding feast).

Jude 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy—

Hi Claninja,

Yes they are part of the Body of Christ, but when the Lord speaks specifically through Paul to people, then it is for them. eg -

`And in this confidence I intended to come to you before, that you might have a second benefit...` (2 Cor. 1: 15)

Does this mean that Paul intends to come to us?

I think you are stretching these two scriptures (Eph. & 2 Cor.) to make a doctrine, making them the basis of where we will receive our inheritance.

Marilyn.

 

[claninja]

Hi Claninja,

So...can you show me the scriptures that tell us that the Body of Christ is - a woman, a bride, a wife, will marry Jesus, is betrothed, etc etc?

Marilyn.

Well, we agreed that the "you" are the Corinthian disciples of Paul. that would make them part of the Church, the body of Christ. Paul is betrothing them to one husband, Christ. That would make the "you" a present bride, and future wife of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ

 

[claninja]

Hi Claninja,

Yes they are part of the Body of Christ, but when the Lord speaks specifically through Paul to people, then it is for them. eg -

Good we agree, the "you" spoken is regards to the body of Christ that paul is betrothing to Christ.

Now do understand how the ancient betrothal and consummation/wedding feast relate to the Christ and the Church?

And in this confidence I intended to come to you before, that you might have a second benefit...` (2 Cor. 1: 15)

Does this mean that Paul intends to come to us?

No, he would come to the Corinthians. How does this relate to our discussion?

I think you are stretching these two scriptures (Eph. & 2 Cor.) to make a doctrine, making them the basis of where we will receive our inheritance.

I disagree. My whole point is that Christ is the sole heir of all things and since we are his bride, his body, we inherit as co-heirs with him.

Do you believe anyone inherits anything outside of Christ?

Christ is the heir of ALL things
Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world

And the promises do not belong to the many seeds of Abraham, but only the seed, who is Christ.
Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

So if Christ is the heir of ALL things and promises of Abraham belong to him, how do we inherit anything?

An earthly example: If I never married my wife, would she ever inherit anything from me or my family? No.

We inherit the promises of God because we are the body of His Son, the bride of the lamb.

Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church

 

[Marilyn C]

Good we agree, the "you" spoken is regards to the body of Christ that paul is betrothing to Christ.

Now do understand how the ancient betrothal and consummation/wedding feast relate to the Christ and the Church?



No, he would come to the Corinthians. How does this relate to our discussion?



I disagree. My whole point is that Christ is the sole heir of all things and since we are his bride, his body, we inherit as co-heirs with him.

Do you believe anyone inherits anything outside of Christ?

Christ is the heir of ALL things
Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world

And the promises do not belong to the many seeds of Abraham, but only the seed, who is Christ.
Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

So if Christ is the heir of ALL things and promises of Abraham belong to him, how do we inherit anything?

An earthly example: If I never married my wife, would she ever inherit anything from me or my family? No.

We inherit the promises of God because we are the body of His Son, the bride of the lamb.

Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church

Hi Claninja,

I see your reasoning. However it seems you are making the Body the centre of God`s purposes. is that so? The only ones He is interested in?

Marilyn.

 

[claninja]

Hi Claninja,

I see your reasoning. However it seems you are making the Body the centre of God`s purposes. is that so? The only ones He is interested in?

Marilyn.

No, His glory through Christ is the center of His purposes. That is why He is the singular 'seed' to inherit the promises of Abraham. That is why Christ is the heir of ALL things.

 

[Marilyn C]

Well, we agreed that the "you" are the Corinthian disciples of Paul. that would make them part of the Church, the body of Christ. Paul is betrothing them to one husband, Christ. That would make the "you" a present bride, and future wife of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ

Hi Claninja,

Just another comment on this point. How is Paul going to `present` us to Christ. For it is the Lord Himself who is making us like unto Himself,

`...Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.`(Rom. 8: 30)

`Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to PRESENT YOU faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy..` (Jude 14)

So where is Paul in any of that? Why would he get any glory when it is the Lord who makes us like Himself and presents us to Himself?

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

No, His glory through Christ is the center of His purposes. That is why He is the singular 'seed' to inherit the promises of Abraham. That is why Christ is the heir of ALL things.

Hi Claninja,

And what are those `All things,` the scriptures tell us?

Marilyn.

 

[claninja]

Hi Claninja,

Just another comment on this point. How is Paul going to `present` us to Christ. For it is the Lord Himself who is making us like unto Himself,

`...Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.`(Rom. 8: 30)

`Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to PRESENT YOU faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy..` (Jude 14)

So where is Paul in any of that? Why would he get any glory when it is the Lord who makes us like Himself and presents us to Himself?

That's a good question. We will have to ask Paul someday when we meet him. But as it stands Paul did say he promised "you" to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin. Paul clearly compares the church to a bride who is betrothed to Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. For I promised you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.

Hi Claninja,

And what are those `All things,` the scriptures tell us?

I would argue the "all things" Christ inherits are the promises of God.

2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God are “Yes” in Christ. And so through Him, our “Amen” is spoken to the glory of God.

 

[Marilyn C]

That's a good question. We will have to ask Paul someday when we meet him. But as it stands Paul did say he promised "you" to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin. Paul clearly compares the church to a bride who is betrothed to Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. For I promised you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.



I would argue the "all things" Christ inherits are the promises of God.

2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God are “Yes” in Christ. And so through Him, our “Amen” is spoken to the glory of God.

Hi claninja,

And what are those?

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Those passages interested me so much I devoted a thread for them.
Note that Yahweh mentions both Israel and Judah in Jere 31:31 and Heb 8:8.

But in Jere 31:33 and Heb 8:10 Judah is missing. Remember, Judah retained the Levitical Priesthood.

Hi LittleLambofJesus,

Let`s look at context -

`Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel AND with the house of Judah.` (Jer. 31: 31)

Remember the two sticks in Ezekiel, the Lord brings them together. Also -

`The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah.` (Zech. 12: 7)

Marilyn.