Equality Act

[civilwarbuff]

i think the first thing Christians need to do is find an appropriate response to the horrific lies the linked article is presenting.

Lie #1: "Under the Equality Act, disagreement is considered discrimination." Of course the bill says nothing of the sort.
Of course the question of those who like to claim it's just disagreement is 'exactly what are you disagreeing with?' You can try asking but you won't get an actual answer from them.
Do they disagree that LGBT individuals are people?
Do they disagree that LGBT individuals have the same same rights and legal protections?
Do they disagree that people shouldn't be fired or denied employment just because they are a member of a minority?
Do they disagree that people shouldn't be evicted from their homes or denied housing just because they are a member of a minority?
Do they disagree that LGBT individuals shouldn't have to live in fear of violence against them and their families?

I don't know.

Lie #2 and 3: ""We can see it would immediately be stripping religious Americans and stripping girls and women of our equal rights,"
Exactly what rights are being stripped away? well....none

Lie #4 "By redefining sex discrimination, the measure would provide for abortion on demand"
How?

Lie #5: "likely end a longstanding prohibition on taxpayer funded abortions"

Lie #6: "remove conscience protections for doctors and nurses."
if medical professionals are refusing to treat people because they are members of a minority then they no conscience and deserve to loose their medical licence. The AMA made it clear when some states tried to pass laws saying medical personal don't have to treat LGBT that such bigoted actions have no place in medicine.

Lie #7 and 8: Biological men would be allowed to compete in women's sports effectively obliterating Title IX while girls and women would be forced to share locker rooms and bathrooms in schools and public places.

neither of which are happening

Lie #9: ""In Alaska, the city of Anchorage had a law like this and punished a faith-based homeless shelter for battered women and actually forced them to allow biological men who identified as women to sleep and change clothes alongside these women, most of whom were victims of rape and sex trafficking and actually prosecuted (the shelter) under the law, trying to shut down this Christian shelter,"
the Hope Center shelter of Anchorage Alaska was never investigated or threatened with shut down. The Shelter sued the city demanding the right to discriminate.

Lie #10: ""If I go to interview in a job and I'm not hired I can sue that employer because I perceive they were thinking I was gay and so they didn't hire me,"
any claims of discrimination must include evidence of that discrimination no matter the minority. Last year multiple cases of such discrimination went all the way to the Supreme Court and yes they all had evidence that the plaintiffs were fired from their jobs because they were LGBT.

Lie # 11: Under the bill, Christian beliefs are unlawful.

Lie # 12: Churches could be prevented from requiring employees to abide by their biblical beliefs about marriage and differences between men and women.

they can't do this now.

Lie #13: "Churches are banned from having a dress code,"
this one is a laugh

Lie #14: "having a code of conduct for their employees."

Lie #15: " asking in interviews if potential employees share core religious beliefs"
employers can't ask about your religious beliefs now.

Lie # 16""The Equality Act treats people of faith as second-class citizens." expecting someone to treat others with the same dignity and respect they want is not making anyone a second class citizen.

Lie #17 "It specifies a certain point of view and it labels it as bigotry," No it labels bigotry as bigotry[/QUOTE]

From your defense arises the age old question: How do you eat an elephant?
One bite at a time.

 

[Paulos23]

If all it did was 'live and let live' most of us would be OK with that.....but it does far more than that. It brings the force of law and punishment for those who disagree and refuse to follow the law......much more than 'live and let live' as you would like....

Like how? Equal rights for people despite race, creed, sex, orientation, etc. are good things. If you want to limit your interactions with any of those groups the common solution is to make a private town or commune.

 

[civilwarbuff]

It is one thing to be saying your wrong, it is another to use social and legal pressures to force others to do it your way.

See #19.......

 

[topher694]

No, they need to not apply them to others, which is what most of that article is about is them losing their ability to do that.

This topic has also riled me up since it touches on some bad experiences I have had with Evangelical Christians. I have a long list of things I think they should not be able to do to others that they can't help doing.

I think they can live their life the way they want to, but most likely they will have to live in a box to keep the outside sinful world away.

So we should enact laws to force Christians to behave they way you think they should behave? Especially so they won't try to enforce laws that make people behave they want them to behave. Got it... I see it now, they are tooooootally different things.

 

[rambot]

If all it did was 'live and let live' most of us would be OK with that.....but it does far more than that. It brings the force of law and punishment for those who disagree and refuse to follow the law......much more than 'live and let live' as you would like....

Do you believe that fundamentally, Christians have the RIGHT to support the withholding of rights from others?
And if you do believe that, how does this demonstrate agape?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Like how? Equal rights for people despite race, creed, sex, orientation, etc. are good things. If you want to limit your interactions with any of those groups the common solution is to make a private town or commune.

Keep reading the answer, it will come to you.....

 

[Speedwell]

I didn't ask about any of that. And now twice I've clearly asked you a simple question, based on a simple statement you made. Based on your avoiding the question twice and your responses I'm assuming the answer is in fact, no. No, Christians should not be able to mind their business and live their lives how they want to live unless the believe and do the "correct" things in your eyes. So in reality this is not a discussion about equality at all. You are treating people no differently than the ways you've described you hate.

BTW, I am in no way claiming I approve or disapprove of any of the examples you've provided. That is not my focus here.

No bill or law can change what you believe and this one does not try to.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It is one thing to be saying your wrong, it is another to use social and legal pressures to force others to do it your way.

Yiu m ean just like Atheists do. You are not well informed, If you were you'd know you dont have a leg to stand on in this argument.

 

[Paulos23]

Yiu m ean just like Atheists do. You are not well informed, If you were you'd know you dont have a leg to stand on in this argument.

Given what Evangelical Christians have tried to do to me, neither do they.

But what have Atheists done to Christians?

 

[Paulos23]

So we should enact laws to force Christians to behave they way you think they should behave? Especially so they won't try to enforce laws that make people behave they want them to behave. Got it... I see it now, they are tooooootally different things.

No, only to stop the inequality they like to subject to others in public. That is the issue to me.

 

[topher694]

No bill or law can change what you believe and this one does not try to.

Faith without works is dead. We are supposed to do more than just believe. Now many Christians don't act appropriately when expressing their faith, but acting inappropriately is pretty much universal to every conceivable group.

 

[topher694]

No, only to stop the inequality they like to subject to others in public. That is the issue to me.

Fine, just as long as the hypocrisy is clear.

 

[Paulos23]

Fine, just as long as the hypocrisy is clear.

Sorry, don't see the hypocrisy here.

 

[topher694]

Sorry, don't see the hypocrisy here.

Hence the issue, but no worries I'm sure others see it.

 

[Belk]

Notice this is NOT an answer. It is just deflecting and finger pointing. I am glad most Christians you know already do. But I know of many, myself included, who have, at times, not been able to do so. What about them? So I'll ask again: Should Christians be able to mind their business and live their lives as they see fit?

Would you be opposed to sharing when and how this happened to you? In response to your question I believe we should all have the same ability to live our lives as we see fit as long as it is not interfering with anyone else's ability to do the same.

 

[SilverBear]

If all it did was 'live and let live' most of us would be OK with that.....but it does far more than that. It brings the force of law and punishment for those who disagree and refuse to follow the law......much more than 'live and let live' as you would like....

what are you disagreeing with?

Do they disagree that LGBT individuals are people?
Do they disagree that LGBT individuals have the same same rights and legal protections?
Do they disagree that people shouldn't be fired or denied employment just because they are a member of a minority?
Do they disagree that people shouldn't be evicted from their homes or denied housing just because they are a member of a minority?
Do they disagree that LGBT individuals shouldn't have to live in fear of violence against them and their families?

 

[SilverBear]

neither of which are happening

Lie #9: ""In Alaska, the city of Anchorage had a law like this and punished a faith-based homeless shelter for battered women and actually forced them to allow biological men who identified as women to sleep and change clothes alongside these women, most of whom were victims of rape and sex trafficking and actually prosecuted (the shelter) under the law, trying to shut down this Christian shelter,"
the Hope Center shelter of Anchorage Alaska was never investigated or threatened with shut down. The Shelter sued the city demanding the right to discriminate.

Lie #10: ""If I go to interview in a job and I'm not hired I can sue that employer because I perceive they were thinking I was gay and so they didn't hire me,"
any claims of discrimination must include evidence of that discrimination no matter the minority. Last year multiple cases of such discrimination went all the way to the Supreme Court and yes they all had evidence that the plaintiffs were fired from their jobs because they were LGBT.

Lie # 11: Under the bill, Christian beliefs are unlawful.

Lie # 12: Churches could be prevented from requiring employees to abide by their biblical beliefs about marriage and differences between men and women.

they can't do this now.

Lie #13: "Churches are banned from having a dress code,"
this one is a laugh

Lie #14: "having a code of conduct for their employees."

Lie #15: " asking in interviews if potential employees share core religious beliefs"
employers can't ask about your religious beliefs now.

Lie # 16""The Equality Act treats people of faith as second-class citizens." expecting someone to treat others with the same dignity and respect they want is not making anyone a second class citizen.

Lie #17 "It specifies a certain point of view and it labels it as bigotry," No it labels bigotry as bigotry

From your defense arises the age old question: How do you eat an elephant?
One bite at a time.[/QUOTE]
Defense? what defense? I'm calling out false witness.

 

[SilverBear]

So we should enact laws to force Christians to behave they way you think they should behave? Especially so they won't try to enforce laws that make people behave they want them to behave. Got it... I see it now, they are tooooootally different things.

you mean enact laws that prevent discrimination?

 

[topher694]

you mean enact laws that prevent discrimination?

And cause it at the same time?

 

[civilwarbuff]

what are you disagreeing with?

I am disagreeing with the fact that you believe that gov't. has the RIGHT to tell people what they can and cannot believe and disagree with......very simple.