Equality Act

tall73

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I found it interesting that the case law cited in the WIKI involves Churches acting in a rather shoddy way towards teachers that is contrary to the ADA.

I thought the same thing. I can understand the protections for religious points of view as they are part of the mission. I have no idea why it would protect churches from poor HR practices of other sorts.
 
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stevil

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If growth hormones given to cows is bad, why are hormones to change children's genders good?
If feeding hay and silage to cows is good, why would feeding hay and silage to children be bad?
 
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SilverBear

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True.

But then puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, and surgical interventions for minors are not imaginary either.
puberty blockers don't change anyone's gender and the vast majority of the time they are prescribed for precocious puberty, puberty starting before age 8.


Cross sex hormones: The World Professional Health Association for Transgender Health standards of care lists cross gender hormone treatments to be a "partially reversible intervention." To be eligible to receive cross gender hormones an individual has to be a legal adult capable of making medical decisions for themselves.

Surgical interventions for minors is fully imaginary. The World Professional Health Association for Transgender Health standards of care state that surgical interventions can not be carried out util the patient has reached the legal age of majority , is capable of making medical decisions. Has lived independently from family for a year to negate any parental influences. Has undergone a minimum of two years of psychotherapy. Has lived continuously for at least 12 months in the gender role that is congruent with their gender identity post psychotherapy.
 
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tall73

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puberty blockers don't change anyone's gender and the vast majority of the time they are prescribed for precocious puberty, puberty starting before age 8.

Cross sex hormones: The World Professional Health Association for Transgender Health standards of care lists cross gender hormone treatments to be a "partially reversible intervention." To be eligible to receive cross gender hormones an individual has to be a legal adult capable of making medical decisions for themselves.

Surgical interventions for minors is fully imaginary. The World Professional Health Association for Transgender Health standards of care state that surgical interventions can not be carried out util the patient has reached the legal age of majority , is capable of making medical decisions. Has lived independently from family for a year to negate any parental influences. Has undergone a minimum of two years of psychotherapy. Has lived continuously for at least 12 months in the gender role that is congruent with their gender identity post psychotherapy.

Yes, I am aware of the WPATH Standards of Care. However, both cross sex hormones and surgical interventions are happening with minors, even among WPATH affiliated surgeons.

Here are the applicable guidelines for those interested:

https://www.wpath.org/media/cms/Documents/SOC v7/SOC V7_English2012.pdf?_t=1613669341

Irreversible Interventions
Genital surgery should not be carried out until (i)patients reach the legal age of majority to give consent for medical procedures in a given country, and (ii)patients have lived continuously for at least 12 months in the gender role that is congruent with their gender identity. The age threshold should be seen as a minimum criterion and not an indication in and of itself for active intervention.


Yet a number of surgeons have performed such surgery, on patients as young as 15, even WPATH associated surgeons.

This article is a survey of attitudes of 20 WPATH affiliated surgeons in the US. 11 of the 20 performed genital surgeries. The article surveys methods, attitudes, also discusses the lack of teeth to any standards of care guidelines, as well as varying views by the doctors as to appropriateness of various techniques.

Some quotes.

https://www.transgendercounseling.com/temp/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Milrod-Karasic-2017-FINAL.pdf


But, despite the minimum age of 18 years defining eligibility to undergo this irreversible procedure, anecdotal reports have shown that vaginoplasties are being performed on minors by surgeons in the United States, thereby contravening the World Professional Association for Trans-gender Health (WPATH) standards of care (SOC).

Conversely, female-affirmed teenagers must defer orchiectomy and/or vaginoplasty until 18 years of age to stay compliant with the SOC and the legal age of majority in the United States. This position also is supported by the Endocrine Society, a worldwide organization dedicated to the education and practice advancement of endocrinology. The society has issued recommendations concerning the treatment of trans youth, in which it is suggested that genital surgery be deferred until the individual has reached 18 years of age

Contrary to the concise criteria guiding decisions for post adolescent surgical treatment [p. 54], there are no guidelines in the WPATH SOC that support the surgeon in the decision to perform vaginoplasty on transgender women younger than 18 years. The surgeon must rely on evaluations by other professionals, careful patient selection, and the personal conviction that proceeding with surgery is the right decision, with the added legal burden of obtaining consent from parents in lieu of the minor and assuming principal responsibility for the physical risk to the young patient who might not always be compliant with or fully understand post-operative care. The surgeons who perform the procedure on transgender minors have, without exception, refrained from publishing any peer-reviewed outcome data or technical articles on this small but increasingly important population

Nine surgeons had never performed vaginoplasty on a transgender female minor, and the remaining 11 participants reported 1 to 20 cases per surgeon. Of the 11 surgeons who had performed vaginoplasty on a transgender female minor, 10 were in private practice. Reported ages of minors undergoing surgery ranged from 15 to “a day before 18” years (surgeon 7). Most participants had noticed a definite increase in the number of minors requesting information about the procedure on their own or being referred for vaginoplasty by their mental health providers.


However, despite the desire for the WPATH to create mechanisms for data tracking and providing greater oversight, a plurality of participants perceived the SOC as purposely“vague”and more as“inherently flexible guidelines”when the question of lowering or keeping the minimum age requirement was brought to the forefront. In fact, approximately one third of participants agreed that the SOC were appropriate in maintaining 18 years as the minimum age criterion for vaginoplasty; the remaining surgeons favored a case-by-case approach or endorsed a shift toward accepting patients younger than 18, although none were certain when any such changes would officially occur.

Paradoxical attitudes to the WPATH and its standards are not unique to this particular group of affiliated members; a study including 36 psychologists, psychiatrists, and endocrinologists in 10 countries showed that the WPATH SOC were considered “too liberal and too conservative."
 
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tall73

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Some also give cross hormone treatment to minors:


Physiologic Response to Gender-Affirming Hormones Among Transgender Youth. - PubMed - NCBI

The purpose of this study was to examine the physiologic impact of hormones on youth with gender dysphoria. These data represent follow-up data in youth ages 12-23 years over a two-year time period of hormone administration.



When Children Say They’re Trans

Not everyone agrees about the importance of comprehensive assessments for transgender and gender-nonconforming youth. Within the small community of clinicians who work with TGNC young people, some have a reputation for being skeptical about the value of assessments. Johanna Olson-Kennedy, a physician who specializes in pediatric and adolescent medicine at Children’s Hospital Los Angeles and who is the medical director of the Center for Transyouth Health and Development, is one of the most sought-out voices on these issues, and has significant differences with Edwards-Leeper and Leibowitz. In “Mental Health Disparities Among Transgender Youth: Rethinking the Role of Professionals,” a 2016 jama Pediatrics article, she wrote that “establishing a therapeutic relationship entails honesty and a sense of safety that can be compromised if young people believe that what they need and deserve (potentially blockers, hormones, or surgery) can be denied them according to the information they provide to the therapist.”

This view is informed by the fact that Olson-Kennedy is not convinced that mental-health assessments lead to better outcomes. “We don’t actually have data on whether psychological assessments lower regret rates,” she told me. She believes that therapy can be helpful for many TGNC young people, but she opposes mandating mental-health assessments for all kids seeking to transition. As she put it when we talked, “I don’t send someone to a therapist when I’m going to start them on insulin.” Of course, gender dysphoria is listed in the DSM-5; juvenile diabetes is not.

One recent study co-authored by Olson-Kennedy, published in the Journal of Adolescent Health, showed that her clinic is giving cross-sex hormones to kids as young as 12. This presses against the boundaries of the Endocrine Society’s guidelines, which state that while “there may be compelling reasons to initiate sex hormone treatment prior to age 16 years … there is minimal published experience treating prior to 13.5 to 14 years of age.”

If you see gender-dysphoric 13- and 14-year-olds not as young people with a condition that may or may not indicate a permanent identity, but as trans kids, full stop, it makes sense to want to grant them access to transition resources as quickly as possible. Olson-Kennedy said that the majority of the patients she sees do need that access. She said she sees a small number of patients who desist or later regret transitioning; those patients, in her opinion, shouldn’t dictate the care of others.


 
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tall73

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Top surgery is also performed on minors. It should be noted the SOC are a bit more flexible on this point to start with:

Chest surgery in FtM patients could be carried out earlier, preferably after ample time of living in the desired gender role and after one year of testosterone treatment. The intent of this suggested sequence is to give adolescents sufficient opportunity to experience and socially adjust in a more masculine gender role, before undergoing irreversible surgery. However, different approaches may be more suitable, depending on an adolescent’s specific clinical situation and goals for gender identity expression.

Chest Dysphoria and Chest Reconstruction Surgery in Transmasculine Youth

The mean (SD) age at chest surgery in this cohort was 17.5 (2.4) years (range, 13-24 years), with 33 (49%) being younger than 18 years. Of the 33 postsurgical participants younger than 18 years at surgery, 16 (48%) were 15 years or younger.
 
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tall73

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For those who don't want to read all the quotes from studies, here is the short version: doctors in the US have performed top surgeries (chest) on people as young as 13, given cross hormone treatment to people as young as 12, and performed genital surgeries on people as young as 15.
 
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puberty blockers don't change anyone's gender and the vast majority of the time they are prescribed for precocious puberty, puberty starting before age 8.

The difference in use for Gender Dysphoria is that they are followed by cross sex hormones. In precocious puberty they are not. When your puberty is blocked and then cross sex hormones are administered this often leads to infertility.

Here is a quote from a doctor who works with puberty blockers and is an advocate for them:

Q&A with Norman Spack - The Boston Globe

SPACK: The biggest challenge is the issue of fertility. When young people halt their puberty before their bodies have developed, and then take cross-hormones for a few years, they'll probably be infertile. You have to explain to the patients that if they go ahead, they may not be able to have children. When you're talking to a 12-year-old, that's a heavy-duty conversation. Does a kid that age really think about fertility?

Genital surgery has obvious implications for fertility as well. And unfortunately in the survey of the 20 WPATH surgeons linked to earlier there was room for improvement in the process.


Comparatively few participants addressed the issue of post surgical infertility in the interviews; among those who reported having discussions with the patient and her family, there was the recognition that the topic had been explored before hand with other practitioners or “not often something that is at the forefront of people”(Surgeon 4).

It appears that the preference for a team approach and dispersion of responsibility among several professionals were expressed partly as added safeguards before preoperative consultations, among them the discussion of fertility preservation. From an ethics perspective this presents a dilemma, because surgical castration is often the last link in a chain of transitioning related medical interventions. Even if the surgeon deems the teenager to be mature and expressing a definite intent to undergo the procedure, there simply might not be sufficient recognition of its finality.


There are other concerns the surgeons had when it comes to consent of minors:


In addition, a few participants urged caution, suggesting that some adolescents engage in gender exploration as part of a developmental phase and as part of the current zeitgeist:

(Examples of statements by surgeons)


I think it goes along the lines of a young person’s mind still being in the developmental stage. Things may happen and they may reorient their thinking, not just whether they are trans or not, but they may reorient their thinking about which surgery will serve their transgender needs. Itis not a binary or tertiary model where they are just gay,straight, bisexual, or trans; there are a whole host of colors in-between. Many trans patients do not want GCS—it could be that at 15 they do, and at 25 they do not.

Depending on how old they are, there are a lot of classes that adolescents, even pre adolescents in elementary schools,are getting these days. And they are trying to figure out if they are doing it because it is a new norm, versus what they really want. I have seen some of my patients’ children go through phases of in and out, of thinking transgender. So that would be my concern—is it because it is popular now?
 
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SilverBear

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Yes, I am aware of the WPATH Standards of Care. However, both cross sex hormones and surgical interventions are happening with minors, even among WPATH affiliated surgeons.

Here are the applicable guidelines for those interested:

https://www.wpath.org/media/cms/Documents/SOC v7/SOC V7_English2012.pdf?_t=1613669341

Irreversible Interventions
Genital surgery should not be carried out until (i)patients reach the legal age of majority to give consent for medical procedures in a given country, and (ii)patients have lived continuously for at least 12 months in the gender role that is congruent with their gender identity. The age threshold should be seen as a minimum criterion and not an indication in and of itself for active intervention.


Yet a number of surgeons have performed such surgery, on patients as young as 15, even WPATH associated surgeons.

This article is a survey of attitudes of 20 WPATH affiliated surgeons in the US. 11 of the 20 performed genital surgeries. The article surveys methods, attitudes, also discusses the lack of teeth to any standards of care guidelines, as well as varying views by the doctors as to appropriateness of various techniques.

Some quotes.

https://www.transgendercounseling.com/temp/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Milrod-Karasic-2017-FINAL.pdf


But, despite the minimum age of 18 years defining eligibility to undergo this irreversible procedure, anecdotal reports have shown that vaginoplasties are being performed on minors by surgeons in the United States, thereby contravening the World Professional Association for Trans-gender Health (WPATH) standards of care (SOC).

Conversely, female-affirmed teenagers must defer orchiectomy and/or vaginoplasty until 18 years of age to stay compliant with the SOC and the legal age of majority in the United States. This position also is supported by the Endocrine Society, a worldwide organization dedicated to the education and practice advancement of endocrinology. The society has issued recommendations concerning the treatment of trans youth, in which it is suggested that genital surgery be deferred until the individual has reached 18 years of age

Contrary to the concise criteria guiding decisions for post adolescent surgical treatment [p. 54], there are no guidelines in the WPATH SOC that support the surgeon in the decision to perform vaginoplasty on transgender women younger than 18 years. The surgeon must rely on evaluations by other professionals, careful patient selection, and the personal conviction that proceeding with surgery is the right decision, with the added legal burden of obtaining consent from parents in lieu of the minor and assuming principal responsibility for the physical risk to the young patient who might not always be compliant with or fully understand post-operative care. The surgeons who perform the procedure on transgender minors have, without exception, refrained from publishing any peer-reviewed outcome data or technical articles on this small but increasingly important population

Nine surgeons had never performed vaginoplasty on a transgender female minor, and the remaining 11 participants reported 1 to 20 cases per surgeon. Of the 11 surgeons who had performed vaginoplasty on a transgender female minor, 10 were in private practice. Reported ages of minors undergoing surgery ranged from 15 to “a day before 18” years (surgeon 7). Most participants had noticed a definite increase in the number of minors requesting information about the procedure on their own or being referred for vaginoplasty by their mental health providers.


However, despite the desire for the WPATH to create mechanisms for data tracking and providing greater oversight, a plurality of participants perceived the SOC as purposely“vague”and more as“inherently flexible guidelines”when the question of lowering or keeping the minimum age requirement was brought to the forefront. In fact, approximately one third of participants agreed that the SOC were appropriate in maintaining 18 years as the minimum age criterion for vaginoplasty; the remaining surgeons favored a case-by-case approach or endorsed a shift toward accepting patients younger than 18, although none were certain when any such changes would officially occur.

Paradoxical attitudes to the WPATH and its standards are not unique to this particular group of affiliated members; a study including 36 psychologists, psychiatrists, and endocrinologists in 10 countries showed that the WPATH SOC were considered “too liberal and too conservative."

...anecdotal reports
anecdotal
[ˌanəkˈdōdl]
ADJECTIVE
(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
 
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tall73

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...anecdotal reports
anecdotal
[ˌanəkˈdōdl]
ADJECTIVE
(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.

The anecdotal reports were what spurred the actual survey of the surgeons. Then the reports were verified.
 
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SilverBear

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Some also give cross hormone treatment to minors:


Physiologic Response to Gender-Affirming Hormones Among Transgender Youth. - PubMed - NCBI

The purpose of this study was to examine the physiologic impact of hormones on youth with gender dysphoria. These data represent follow-up data in youth ages 12-23 years over a two-year time period of hormone administration.



When Children Say They’re Trans

Not everyone agrees about the importance of comprehensive assessments for transgender and gender-nonconforming youth. Within the small community of clinicians who work with TGNC young people, some have a reputation for being skeptical about the value of assessments. Johanna Olson-Kennedy, a physician who specializes in pediatric and adolescent medicine at Children’s Hospital Los Angeles and who is the medical director of the Center for Transyouth Health and Development, is one of the most sought-out voices on these issues, and has significant differences with Edwards-Leeper and Leibowitz. In “Mental Health Disparities Among Transgender Youth: Rethinking the Role of Professionals,” a 2016 jama Pediatrics article, she wrote that “establishing a therapeutic relationship entails honesty and a sense of safety that can be compromised if young people believe that what they need and deserve (potentially blockers, hormones, or surgery) can be denied them according to the information they provide to the therapist.”

This view is informed by the fact that Olson-Kennedy is not convinced that mental-health assessments lead to better outcomes. “We don’t actually have data on whether psychological assessments lower regret rates,” she told me. She believes that therapy can be helpful for many TGNC young people, but she opposes mandating mental-health assessments for all kids seeking to transition. As she put it when we talked, “I don’t send someone to a therapist when I’m going to start them on insulin.” Of course, gender dysphoria is listed in the DSM-5; juvenile diabetes is not.

One recent study co-authored by Olson-Kennedy, published in the Journal of Adolescent Health, showed that her clinic is giving cross-sex hormones to kids as young as 12. This presses against the boundaries of the Endocrine Society’s guidelines, which state that while “there may be compelling reasons to initiate sex hormone treatment prior to age 16 years … there is minimal published experience treating prior to 13.5 to 14 years of age.”

If you see gender-dysphoric 13- and 14-year-olds not as young people with a condition that may or may not indicate a permanent identity, but as trans kids, full stop, it makes sense to want to grant them access to transition resources as quickly as possible. Olson-Kennedy said that the majority of the patients she sees do need that access. She said she sees a small number of patients who desist or later regret transitioning; those patients, in her opinion, shouldn’t dictate the care of others.

The devil is as they say in the details. in the methodology section of the Olson-Kennedy paper one reads that the median age of the patients included in her study was 19 and that the patients who have not reached majority were treated leuprorelin, histrelin, or bicalutamide and anastrozole all are gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists -puberty blockers not estorgens or androgens.
 
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tall73

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The devil is as they say in the details. in the methodology section of the Olson-Kennedy paper one reads that the median age of the patients included in her study was 19 and that the patients who have not reached majority were treated leuprorelin, histrelin, or bicalutamide and anastrozole all are gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists -puberty blockers not estorgens or androgens.

Here is the full text:

Physiologic Response to Gender-Affirming Hormones Among Transgender Youth

Can you please quote the paragraph you are looking at? Or do you have a different study?

Here are some quotes from the full text:

Self-identified transgender youth between the ages of 12 and 24 years presenting consecutively for care at the center between February 2011 and June 2013 were screened for participation in this prospective study. Eligibility criteria for the study included age between 12 and 24 years old, self-identification of an internal gender identity different from the sex assigned at birth, presence of gender dysphoria, a desire to undergo phenotypic gender transition, naivety to cross-sex hormones or less than three months of previous hormone use, and ability to read and comprehend English. Participants under the age of 18 required consent from their legal guardians to participate in the study.

Hormone regimens
Transfeminine youth were started on hormone protocols that usually included a testosterone blocking agent and feminizing medications. Spironolactone (100–200 mg orally per day) or a GnRH analog was used for testosterone blocking and induction of feminizing features with 17 β estradiol, and in some cases, the addition of progesterone. At the time of this study, spironolactone and GnRH analogs were not covered by most insurance plans; therefore, seven (28%) of these youth did not have their endogenous testosterone blocked specifically in the first two years of treatment. One transfeminine young person was on GnRH analogs since early puberty. Eighteen participants used an escalating dose of oral estradiol ranging from 1 to 6 mg each day; four switched to injectable estradiol over the course of treatment, and one was off of hormones at the follow-up visit. Six participants initially started, and continued using injectable estradiol at doses ranging from 20 to 30 mg delivered intramuscularly every 14 days.

Transmasculine youth were all treated with testosterone cypionate via subcutaneous delivery at escalating doses ranging from 12.5 mg to 75 mg weekly. At follow-up, most youth were at a dose of 50–75 mg weekly. Two transmasculine youth were on simultaneous GnRH analogs that were started earlier in adolescence. Doses for both cohorts were adjusted based on clinical response and circulating levels of sex steroids.

Physiologic data for 59 youth (25 transfeminine participants and 34 transmasculine participants) were available for follow-up comparison at 21–31 months following the initiation of exogenous hormones for phenotypic transition. Twenty-five (42%) of the participants were assigned male at birth and identified somewhere along the female gender spectrum (transfeminine), and 34 (58%) were assigned female at birth and identified somewhere along the masculine gender spectrum (transmasculine). Youth ranged in age from 12 to 23 years at initiation of therapy, with a mean age of 18 years. Thirteen (22%) youth started hormones younger than age 16 years.
 
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The devil is as they say in the details. in the methodology section of the Olson-Kennedy paper one reads that the median age of the patients included in her study was 19 and that the patients who have not reached majority were treated leuprorelin, histrelin, or bicalutamide and anastrozole all are gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists -puberty blockers not estorgens or androgens.

Olson-Kennedy's study also refers to a retrospective study in the field, which shows cross sex hormone usage in minors younger than 16. This study examined cases from between 2008-2014, which shows that this has been happening for some time.

A recent retrospective article by Jarin et al. reported the minimal impact of hormone treatment on 116 adolescents aged 14–25 years with gender dysphoria who were treated over time. Jarin et al. demonstrated that among adolescents treated for a period of 1–6+ months, the only findings were an increase in hemoglobin, hematocrit, and body mass index, and a lowering of high-density lipoprotein levels in those using testosterone for masculinization. Among those using estrogen for feminization, lower testosterone and alanine aminotransferase (ALT) were reported [15]. These findings are consistent with data from adults undergoing phenotypic gender transition with exogenous hormones, and indicate short-term safety of hormone use.


The full text of that article can be found here:

Cross-Sex Hormones and Metabolic Parameters in Adolescents With Gender Dysphoria


Some quotes:

The primary aim of the present study was to identify patterns in metabolic and cardiovascular parameters in transgender adolescents receiving cross-sex hormone therapy in centers located in Washington, DC, Baltimore, MD, and Cincinnati, OH.

METHODS: Data from adolescents aged 14 to 25 years seen in 1 of 4 clinical sites between 2008 and 2014 were retrospectively analyzed. Subjects were divided into affirmed male (female-to-male) patients taking testosterone and affirmed female (male-to-female) patients taking estrogen.

From 2008 to 2014, a total of 116 transgender adolescents were recorded as having received cross-sex hormone therapy; this total included 72 affirmed male subjects and 44 affirmed female subjects (Table 1). The mean age of the affirmed male and female subjects was 16 and 18 years, respectively.

The Endocrine Society guidelines recommend that adolescents with GD can start cross-sex hormone therapy at 16 years of age. The mean age of affirmed male and female subjects included in this study was 16 and 18 years, respectively, reflecting the increasingly more common practice of starting cross-sex hormones before 16 years of age.
 
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