Epoch of Time

CherubRam

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Epoch of time.

God said:

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

After Adam ate the fruit, he continued to live for nearly a thousand years, until he finally died.



Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
Hosea 6:2
After two days he will revive us; upon the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8
But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

Hosea 6:2
After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

The resurrection of the elect is after two thousand years, and the third day is the end of the thousand years, and it is the resurrection of the sheep and goats.


Matthew 24
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Matthew 25:32
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Revelation 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years



For certain there is a parabolic element to the story, but as you know parables are mixed with the literal. This means that a spirit of discernment is required. As for spirits, it is a fact that they also have a soul; both body and spirit. Only it is not like our flesh and blood bodies. Yahwah is a Holy Spirit, and He is the God of spirits.
A person can not see a spirit, but a person can see a soul. And because those in the kingdom of God have a soul, that is how we will be able to recognize each other.

The creation days are epochs of time, and the age of the Earth is not accounted for.
It is not until the creation of Adam on the sixth day that the calendar begins. The fact that life forms have a limited adaptability according to their design is no proof of Evolution.

What real proof is there of one species departing from its basic form? Artist drawings do not count as scientific fact.
If Evolution was true, then why have the oldest prehistoric life forms alive today not evolved?
In the rock strata of fossils, it shows that while one group suddenly went extinct, others suddenly sprang into being.
 

Ken Rank

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Epoch of time.

God said:

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

After Adam ate the fruit, he continued to live for nearly a thousand years, until he finally died.



Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
Hosea 6:2
After two days he will revive us; upon the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8
But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

Hosea 6:2
After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

The resurrection of the elect is after two thousand years, and the third day is the end of the thousand years, and it is the resurrection of the sheep and goats.


Matthew 24
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Matthew 25:32
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Revelation 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years



For certain there is a parabolic element to the story, but as you know parables are mixed with the literal. This means that a spirit of discernment is required. As for spirits, it is a fact that they also have a soul; both body and spirit. Only it is not like our flesh and blood bodies. Yahwah is a Holy Spirit, and He is the God of spirits.
A person can not see a spirit, but a person can see a soul. And because those in the kingdom of God have a soul, that is how we will be able to recognize each other.

The creation days are epochs of time, and the age of the Earth is not accounted for.
It is not until the creation of Adam on the sixth day that the calendar begins. The fact that life forms have a limited adaptability according to their design is no proof of Evolution.

What real proof is there of one species departing from its basic form? Artist drawings do not count as scientific fact.
If Evolution was true, then why have the oldest prehistoric life forms alive today not evolved?
In the rock strata of fossils, it shows that while one group suddenly went extinct, others suddenly sprang into being.
A lot of interesting things in your post. First I would just add my opinion on "in that day" regarding Adam. In the Hebrew the word for "die" is repeated twice and is best rendered, "dying you will die." It indicates a process that leads to death, not an immediate event that day. That doesn't change where you are going, just maybe adds to it.

What I personally find irritating when it comes to this argument (creation verses evolution) is that we are really arguing over the starting time. But this isn't a fair fight anyway because God did something that is not taken into consideration by evolutionists and that 'something' is plainly spelled out in the texts... God made the Earth with the appearance of age. I say that because 1 second after Adam was created, he wasn't a baby in need of milk, he was a man able to eat solid food. The trees bearing fruit that were there for him, were (it appears) already bearing fruit which means they had to appear at least 5-10 years old from the moment they were created. What that does is literally skip what science says takes millions of years to do and brings the debate to Adam not to a pool of pond scum.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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God creates out of nothing and it would seem odd for God to use billions of years to put man on the planet and then go from Adam to Jesus and the 2nd coming and use just about 6,000 years. The model of creation could be prophetic and the 6th millennium ends with man largely choosing antichrist just before Jesus returns for the 1000 year reign which would be the Sabbath millennium.
What would be evening and morning for ages? How was there evening and morning before the sun and the moon? I tend to think it was 6 literal days.

Here is a link to a good article supporting this view from scriptures

Did Jesus Say He Created in Six Literal Days?
 
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Halbhh

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Thank you for pointing out that particular thing that the phrasing about a day being a thousand years may not be only figuratively meaning a very long time of indeterminate length, but could mean something more specific possibly. Either way, we can be assured, even if it means only an undetermined long time. It's good to remember not to get too caught up in ever trying to predict the month or year though. We have real challenges, most of us, each day, to stay on the narrow road, and our need to confess, and pray, and look to Him, each day. That is, today, and also specifically tomorrow also, Tuesday, should it arrive first.
 
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pat34lee

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What that does is literally skip what science says takes millions of years to do and brings the debate to Adam not to a pool of pond scum.

The only reason for the evolutionists to claim old age is that
it is the only way to count God out of the picture; even though
it doesn't work and never will. They replace intelligence and
order with chaos and time and still must rely on supernatural
causes without calling them such.
 
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CherubRam

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The only reason for the evolutionists to claim old age is that
it is the only way to count God out of the picture; even though
it doesn't work and never will. They replace intelligence and
order with chaos and time and still must rely on supernatural
causes without calling them such.
That is a good point. If Evolution was true in this world, then we would be talking about a super natural event.
 
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Halbhh

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Epoch of time.

What real proof is there of one species departing from its basic form? Artist drawings do not count as scientific fact.
If Evolution was true, then why have the oldest prehistoric life forms alive today not evolved?
In the rock strata of fossils, it shows that while one group suddenly went extinct, others suddenly sprang into being.

About this last part, it's profoundly less important. It truly does not matter whether God used evolution, or simply created new species individually one at a time. All of that is mere small detail, and we'd be missing the points in scripture if we ended up preoccupied with such trivial matters of course.

Thanks so much though for the beautiful quotes which pointed out the interesting things about time as I mentioned above in my earlier response. That part is significantly meaningful, though of course we each must live each day as if that very day is our last, doing as He said to do in Matthew 7:24-27 in order that we endure and make it to the goal, that we 'run the race' as Paul wrote.
 
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CherubRam

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About this last part, it's profoundly less important. It truly does not matter whether God used evolution, or simply created new species individually one at a time. All of that is mere small detail, and we'd be missing the points in scripture if we ended up preoccupied with such trivial matters of course.

Thanks so much though for the beautiful quotes which pointed out the interesting things about time as I mentioned above in my earlier response. That part is significantly meaningful, though of course we each must live each day as if that very day is our last, doing as He said to do in Matthew 7:24-27 in order that we endure and make it to the goal, that we 'run the race' as Paul wrote.
It is good to have different things to think about.

Isaiah 43:10
. so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god formed, nor will there be one after me.
 
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Halbhh

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The only reason for the evolutionists to claim old age is that
it is the only way to count God out of the picture; even though
it doesn't work and never will. They replace intelligence and
order with chaos and time and still must rely on supernatural
causes without calling them such.

Don't think to say what God did in small detail more than we can be sure of -- for instance we haven't any wording at all about how much time passed during Gen 1:1. Here's what I'm trying to say --

8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

9“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."

It's a strong message to us not to think we know all things He has done, or how He might do things!

We simply do not know with total certainty whether He used evolution or did not and merely made it appear as if evolution happened so in order that we must have real faith, and not merely easy proof of such facts in an easy, outright way from scripture, which would preclude faith. For instance, if scripture did reveal in a simple, clear outright way that the Earth was "4.55 billion years old", then once science saw that it appears just exactly that old (ever since the 1950s), then we'd not even need faith, or rather, we'd simply know without any faith!

Yet faith itself is a profound value, as we see in scripture, such as in Hebrews chapter 11.
 
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Ken Rank

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The only reason for the evolutionists to claim old age is that
it is the only way to count God out of the picture; even though
it doesn't work and never will. They replace intelligence and
order with chaos and time and still must rely on supernatural
causes without calling them such.
I agree that is part of it but I am not sure they all have an anti-God bias. I think, at least in some cases, we have a false premise created over 100 years ago... and then the current evolutionary doctrine built upon an error which just leads to a greater error. It is no different than what we sometimes see in theology. I can share many examples where we have a faulty premise created long ago and then enough time passes and enough teachings are built upon the error, that we eventually get to a point where we are born into the mindset that the error is the truth. Scientists today are born into the cultural idea that evolution is not theory but fact.. and they continue to build on that drifting further and further from God in the process.

Of course, some are simply atheists that just hate the idea of God. Either way.... their teachings are flawed and built upon flaws.
 
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Halbhh

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I agree that is part of it but I am not sure they all have an anti-God bias. I think, at least in some cases, we have a false premise created over 100 years ago... and then the current evolutionary doctrine built upon an error which just leads to a greater error. It is no different than what we sometimes see in theology. I can share many examples where we have a faulty premise created long ago and then enough time passes and enough teachings are built upon the error, that we eventually get to a point where we are born into the mindset that the error is the truth. Scientists today are born into the cultural idea that evolution is not theory but fact.. and they continue to build on that drifting further and further from God in the process.

Of course, some are simply atheists that just hate the idea of God. Either way.... their teachings are flawed and built upon flaws.

I hope it never sounds like I'm saying something like "it has to be this way, and not that way". That's the thing I want us to examine actually!

For instance, I try to be sure to point out over and over Mat 7:24-27 as the only way to endure, so that if one side is proven wrong on such minor issues of precisely what God did in small details not in the text (which of course we can't know every small detail), they won't then be lost by having the basis of their faith house destroyed.

If we are doing as Christ said in Matthew 7, we are on the Rock, and cannot be destroyed. I only enter these evolution discussions because I truly want to be sure all my brothers and sisters are only building their faith on the Rock, alone, and not even one tiny bit on anything other than only the rock of hearing and putting His words into practice.

It's not Jesus first, and then creation doctrine B2 instead of A3. It's Jesus first, and in the middle, and in the end.

We should not worry or be dogmatic about small details we can't be totally sure of, because they are not in the text! We should only present our interpretations as our interpretations, and not more than our interpretations. Saying they are our interpretations, and not too important!
 
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pat34lee

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I agree that is part of it but I am not sure they all have an anti-God bias. I think, at least in some cases, we have a false premise created over 100 years ago... and then the current evolutionary doctrine built upon an error which just leads to a greater error.

I agree. Many people are conned. Even the scientists.
They see what they want to see, and it's easier for them
to believe what the world says every day because they
don't know their bible or believe it.
 
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pat34lee

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I hope it never sounds like I'm saying something like "it has to be this way, and not that way". That's the thing I want us to examine actually!

For instance, I try to be sure to point out over and over Mat 7:24-27 as the only way to endure, so that if one side is proven wrong on such minor issues of precisely what God did in small details not in the text (which of course we can't know every small detail), they won't then be lost by having the basis of their faith house destroyed.

If we are doing as Christ said in Matthew 7, we are on the Rock, and cannot be destroyed. I only enter these evolution discussions because I truly want to be sure all my brothers and sisters are only building their faith on the Rock, alone, and not even one tiny bit on anything other than only the rock of hearing and putting His words into practice.

It's not Jesus first, and then creation doctrine B2 instead of A3. It's Jesus first, and in the middle, and in the end.

We should not worry about small details we can't be totally sure of, because they are not in the text!

Wrong. God first. And every detail matters or he
wouldn't have given them in the first place.

Without the beginning, you have no need for Jesus
at all. No creation, no sin, no need for a savior.
 
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Halbhh

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Wrong. God first. And every detail matters or he
wouldn't have given them in the first place.

Without the beginning, you have no need for Jesus
at all. No creation, no sin, no need for a savior.

Ok. I'm totally comfortable for you to feel you know things I don't. I'm 0% bothered by that, and you can think me wrong in any way about whatever piece of Genesis chapter 1 you want to say I'm wrong about, that the days were literal (as I say), whatever, each thing, and that's ok too. :) Really.

You can take them as metaphors, or whatever else you think, unlike me, and that's 100% ok with me.

It's that we believe in Christ, that we rely on Christ for our salvation -- that we follow Him. He is the way the Truth and the Life. Nothing else is. Praise God!

Love you bro!
 
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pat34lee

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Ok. I'm totally comfortable for you to feel you know things I don't. I'm 0% bothered by that, and you can think me wrong in any way about whatever piece of Genesis chapter 1 you want to say I'm wrong about, that the days were literal (as I say), whatever, each thing, and that's ok too. :) Really.

You can take them as metaphors, or whatever else you think, unlike me, and that's 100% ok with me.

It's that we believe in Christ, that we rely on Christ for our salvation -- that we follow Him. He is the way the Truth and the Life. Nothing else is. Praise God!

Love you bro!

Nice spin, but still missing the point.
It's not about what we know. It's about
believing what God said. If you don't
believe him for one thing, why another?

Evolution is impossible, both according
to science and the bible.
 
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Halbhh

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Nice spin, but still missing the point.
It's not about what we know. It's about
believing what God said. If you don't
believe him for one thing, why another?

Evolution is impossible, both according
to science and the bible.

I believe all God has said.

Now, it would be a spin to try to paint it as if I don't believe in God and scripture, from here on, at any time, since I've clearly and unambiguously said that I do.

If someone disagrees with us about whatever, it does not prove they don't believe unless they say plainly exactly that. We want to be sure to do to others as we want them do to us, of course.
 
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Halbhh

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Nice spin, but still missing the point.
It's not about what we know. It's about
believing what God said. If you don't
believe him for one thing, why another?

Evolution is impossible, both according
to science and the bible.

About the entirely unconnected question of whether God could use evolution I think clearly He could, since all things are possible for Him, and since it can be reasonably seen to be fully compatible with scripture.

Of course, you may disagree, and that's 100% ok. I don't need you to agree with me in all things, but instead I hope to see each person follow Christ, and not anything else.
 
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Epoch of time.

God said:

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

After Adam ate the fruit, he continued to live for nearly a thousand years, until he finally died.



Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
Hosea 6:2
After two days he will revive us; upon the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8
But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

Hosea 6:2
After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

The resurrection of the elect is after two thousand years, and the third day is the end of the thousand years, and it is the resurrection of the sheep and goats.


Matthew 24
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Matthew 25:32
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Revelation 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years



For certain there is a parabolic element to the story, but as you know parables are mixed with the literal. This means that a spirit of discernment is required. As for spirits, it is a fact that they also have a soul; both body and spirit. Only it is not like our flesh and blood bodies. Yahwah is a Holy Spirit, and He is the God of spirits.
A person can not see a spirit, but a person can see a soul. And because those in the kingdom of God have a soul, that is how we will be able to recognize each other.

The creation days are epochs of time, and the age of the Earth is not accounted for.
It is not until the creation of Adam on the sixth day that the calendar begins. The fact that life forms have a limited adaptability according to their design is no proof of Evolution.

What real proof is there of one species departing from its basic form? Artist drawings do not count as scientific fact.
If Evolution was true, then why have the oldest prehistoric life forms alive today not evolved?
In the rock strata of fossils, it shows that while one group suddenly went extinct, others suddenly sprang into being.
I agree with you. In fact, I would not say it's a literal thousand years, but simply a period of time, such as "In my day we wore bell bottoms."
 
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