Epistemological Certainty and Orthodoxy

FireDragon76

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I'm not saying that objective morality is separate from God, I'm saying that objective morality can't change, as God can't change, because if it did, that would mean God changes and He is thus imperfect needing to change (and also not omnibenevolent, for he judges people arbitrarily).

My question is how can we know what God's Will is, or even know we are following God's Will, especially when it's morally complicated, in terms of certainty?

Our understanding of what is moral can certainly change.

Just because we have some divine edict, doesn't make something moral. Religious fanaticism is full of folks doing something they perceive of as good in God's name or following God's command. Morality must fall under the domain of reason and benevolence towards our fellow human beings, because that is the example that Jesus left us. He placed compassion and benevolence above religious duties.
 
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TheLostCoin

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Our understanding of what is moral can certainly change.

Just because we have some divine edict, doesn't make something moral. Religious fanaticism is full of folks doing something they perceive of as good in God's name or following God's command. Morality must fall under the domain of reason and benevolence towards our fellow human beings, because that is the example that Jesus left us. He placed compassion and benevolence above religious duties.

I agree to an extent, but I don't think what underpins our understanding of morality can change, because if it did, it means that God Himself changes. Because to be moral is to follow God and obeying the first two commandments, Loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and loving your neighbor as yourself.

The 10 Commandments, because they explicitly are the underpinnings of morality, will never change. Murder in of itself will never be okay. How the killing of other people is applied can change (Is burning people at the stake moral?), but it doesn't change the Commandment.
 
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FireDragon76

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I agree, but I don't think what underpins our understanding of morality can change, because if it did, it means that God Himself changes.

The 10 Commandments, because they explicitly are the underpinnings of morality, will never change. Murder in of itself will never be okay. How the killing of other people is applied can change (Is burning people at the stake moral?), but it doesn't change the Commandment.

Murder is immoral because it deprives the neighbor of his or her life, which is their own by right, not merely because God commands against it. St. Paul summarizes the Law as "Love your neighbor as yourself", in Galatians 5:14.
 
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dzheremi

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'Merely'? Isn't God's command far above man's rationalizations for things? I agree with what I think your point is, but that phraseology seems backwards in a way that makes me uncomfortable. God's command must always come first.
 
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FireDragon76

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'Merely'? Isn't God's command far above man's rationalizations for things? I agree with what I think your point is, but that phraseology seems backwards in a way that makes me uncomfortable. God's command must always come first.

If God told me to kill, I would hope that unlike Abraham, I would be checking myself into a mental hospital, not grabbing a child to slaughter.
 
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ArmyMatt

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If God told me to kill, I would hope that unlike Abraham, I would be checking myself into a mental hospital, not grabbing a child to slaughter.

then it's a good thing God asked Abraham and not you.
 
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Toolbelt

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What changed is the environment we live in. People are much more comfortable due in great part to innovations like electricity fossil fuel and an economy that helps the underprivileged. If something of great magnitude were to happen. like fossil fuel running out or a financial catastrophe. People would revert back to being cruel and unjust.
Also hunger can play a big roll. Many wars were started because of it.
Let us not be complacent, because our current situation is very friendly and good. History has taught us that things can turn over night.
 
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mark kennedy

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I agree to an extent, but I don't think what underpins our understanding of morality can change, because if it did, it means that God Himself changes. Because to be moral is to follow God and obeying the first two commandments, Loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and loving your neighbor as yourself.

The 10 Commandments, because they explicitly are the underpinnings of morality, will never change. Murder in of itself will never be okay. How the killing of other people is applied can change (Is burning people at the stake moral?), but it doesn't change the Commandment.
I'm rather curious, how do you deal with Romans 7 where the commandment, 'thou shalt not covet' produced in Paul every covetous desire? I mean, of course the Law will always be a witness to the righteousness of God but our response to it might not be so...shall we say...innocent.
 
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abacabb3

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Funny. Whenever this topic gets brought up there are no Scriptures or even fathers...heck, even post schismatic RCs never brought up. Its a very recent argument. I dont even feel the need to elaborate upon how it is wrong, other than the fact that if we need an infallible interpreter, how do you interpret the infallible interpreter when you are fallible? The Scriptures are infallible...so, are the Protestants fine?
 
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