Entrance to Salvation?

[SiriusP23]

Hello,

I am very confused; for almost one year now I thought I was saved, but recently began doubting whether or not my conversion experience was real. I struggled with doubt for a week or so, and began seeking after answers about salvation. Not knowing if I was saved, I became very grieved about the possibility that I could die and go straight to hell!

I've read some things about how God convicts people, and shows them their sinful state, which leads them to repentance. I've heard people say that "unless you're completely shattered, broken, grieved, and feel unclean," that you have not been convicted, thus never truly repented and are not saved. However, people express emotions in different ways, and I'm not sure if my experience is sufficient.

I will try my best to describe how I have felt. Upon concluding that "I may not be saved," I became depressed, and for the first time felt hopeless, helpless, somewhat depressed and scared. I have cried and even took a few days off of work. Following this, I realized that pride may have kept me from feeling 'deserving of Hell.' That feeling is gone now; I feel like my sins have indeed put me on a path to Hell, and it's very scary. I already had the knowledge, but now I had the actual feelings to go along, that unless I have Christ, I have no chance of going to Heaven.

I am still not sure if this is the so called "Godly Sorrow," whereby I'm "Utterly shattered over my sin." Reading quotes like the one below, makes me doubt that I've ever been convicted:

"You should feel guilty, ashamed, unclean, and that the condemnation of God that is now upon you is just and proper. May you feel that if God should (even now while you read this letter, and before you finish it, or come to the knowledge of the truth) plunge your soul into hell, He would be just and glorious for doing so, realizing that you have grievously sinned against Him. Such a sorrow for sin will certainly come before repentance in the case of an adult sinner such as you."

I don't believe I have come to this point, in feeling. This confuses me, because it would seem that the more you grow in understanding, the more you realize how damaging sin is and how dependent you are on Christ. But if one must experience feelings of this magnitude, as a work of God's convicting you, before you repent I am not sure if he is or isn't working in me.

Any help?

EDIT:

I should note, that I had the understanding (knowledge) during my initial conversion, and I'm not sure if this is simply, me coming to a new level of understanding! I know that something must have happened for me to get to this point, because I grew up in a Christian family/school and was never convicted, never really 'saw it,' until I was 23.

 

[alexandriaisburning]

Don't worry about others' experiences, and don't compare yourself to anyone else. Trust in the everlasting and unconditional mercy and love of God, for everyone who desires to be reconciled to God will be.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

never really 'saw it,' until I was 23

Regeneration causes one to see what they had not before. That something is someone: Jesus. We are able to see Jesus and specifically His saving work, only when we are born anew. See John 3.

Also, The kind of doubt you have now will remain with you unless and until you come to understand that it's God who does he saving. See John 6

37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

41At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

43“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’d Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

 

[sdowney717]

That You May Believe
John 20
30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

John is teaching you this throughout the gospel of John.

Do a word study on repentance and having faith towards God.

 

[nobdysfool]

The quote you posted is, at its core, based on emotions and outward show of extreme emotions. Emotions are fleeting, changeable, and should not be what you rely on, in anything. If you have confessed your sins, and believed on Him for their forgiveness, they are dealt with, and gone. They will never again be between you and God. What you feel like is not the issue. What does God say about it? Your emotions are not a true measure. Only God's Word is.

 

[Greg J.]

SiriusP23, what you are experiencing is called spiritual oppression. I wouldn't be surprised if it were even worse for you than what you described.

Wherever you got that paragraph in bold, stop going there. Some people receive the gospel with excitement and joy. This state of confusion you are in is common, so don't worry about the fact you are there.

Our past sins and any present sinning gives Satan access to us. (Romans 6:16) It is the consequence of our sinful decisions. It doesn't just disappear when we turn to God. The reason is because we don't get instant super-faith when we decide to give our lives to Jesus. Increasing our faith in the Lord is a consequence of doing the things that nurture our relationship with Jesus over the long-term.

This passage refers to the path out of the place you're at:
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (bold mine, John 8:31-32, 1984 NIV)

God, through your faith in him, will deal with all the confusion, difficulties, and pain.

It is important that you decide firmly in your heart whether you have committed 100% of all you are to Jesus or not. (Matthew 16:24-26) It is important that you seek God's help to stop sinning. It is also important to get at least several people praying for you regularly. If none of this is working, then start increasing your prayer time with the Lord.

You need to maintain the spiritual disciplines in a reasonable way (don't push yourself too hard): Studying Scripture to learn more about God and yourself, worshiping, praying, fellowship with other Christians (some should be more spiritually mature than you), and others (e.g., going to a good church).

Copy the verse references from this page that you like (there's lots of other lists like this too, if you want to find another): http://www.joycemeyer.org/articles/ea.aspx?article=knowing_who_i_am_in_christ. Print them out and stick them on your mirror and put a copy with your Bible. Memorize the ones you like the most (from your Bible). Eject all thoughts that are contrary to the truth and replace them with the truth. This is a practice that we all must do for the rest of our lives. At first it may not seem like you can do it, then it might not seem like it is working, but eventually it will and it will become second nature.

Try to be patient even though you are suffering. I've described a way to bring more of God into your life, but it doesn't happen over night. Your goal is to know the living God in an intimate way, and studying Scripture is a vital part of what is needed to do that, but obeying what you know is of immediate importance. Remember that it is God who is doing the saving, not you. Your salvation is not dependent on what you succeed or fail at doing, it is dependent upon where your heart is.

There's a lot of other advice that could be given, which I'm not going to get into, but some examples are:
* Avoid friends who aren't trying to live in a way that is pleasing to God
* If appropriate, get therapy from a (good) psychologist (try at least 3), and possibly medication.
Our imperfect faith in God (something everyone has) means that spiritual warfare has a physical world component that is usually most effectively battled in the physical world (the realm God gave us and where we are quite powerful).

What you have described indicates that God has called you to a place of unusually great honor, power, and reward. You can count on that. God LOVES you. Do a light, but long-term Bible study to find out exactly what that means (apart from 1 Corinthians 13). What does God do and what is he willing to do because of his love for YOU?

A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you. (Psalm 91:7, 1984 NIV)

And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. (John 14:13-14, 1984 NIV, also see John 16:24 and others) If you want to see that in action in the short term, try focusing your requests on things that will make you more like Jesus.

 

[bling]

I know that I needed everything God could provide to assure me of my conversion, both outwardly and mentally. God wants you to physically feel the experience of what is going on Spiritually.

You might need to add to your conversion a definite time place and physical experience, which God has provided for you. We talk about being “Born again”, which comes from Nicodemus encounter with Christ (John 3 :1-21):

Christian water baptism as seen in scripture: Is always adult (there are only two examples that “might include infants” but nothing definite, all the others are adult believers) water immersion to be a physical outward representation of what had or is happening spiritually in the person being baptized. It is mainly to help the individual being baptized to better grasp what is going on, but it can “witness” to others observing the baptism. It has the elements of going down under the water (burying the old man), placing your dependence in another; the person baptizing you (surrendering your life to God), being washed (having your sins washed away), rising out of the water (rising from the old dead body), and stepping forth out onto the earth (a new person). The person is walking out into the hugs of his new family. It is also a sign of your humility, since it is a humbling act anyone can simple allow someone to do it to them (so not a work) and since humility has been shown in the accept of charity (God’s free gift of undeserving forgiveness) it should just support and add to the memory of that acceptance. To refuse Christian water baptism when it is readily available might mean you are not ready to handle other responsibility like having the indwelling Holy Spirit and you are hurting yourself.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi Sirius, how would you compare your life AFTER your "initial conversion" with your life prior to that? Did any profound changes occur that you can remember (and if so, what were they exactly)?

And if there were "changes", do you believe that they still characterize your life today, or have you returned to living in much the same way you did before your conversion experience?

Thanks!

Yours in Christ,
David
p.s. - BTW, WELCOME TO CF ..

 

[SiriusP23]

Hello All,

Thank you For your replies! @St_Worm2, thanks for your reply I will try to answer as best and as honest as I can!

I would say the biggest change is my desire to have a close relationship with God! When I sin, it's more that simply knowing that I messed up, but that my sins are keeping me from a close relationship with God and I hate it! An actual desire to read my Bible more, and constantly praying. I would say my number one goal is to discover his will for my life, I simply want to have a close relationship with him. When I sin, I feel disappointed in myself just knowing that this is not who I am, and that these things keep me from a close relationship to God and that sin is very serous, enough that Christ had to Die. This leads me to ask for forgiveness and really want to turn away!

I also see things are bigger than myself; it's not just about me, but how God can use me to reach others. I have an increasing desire to know Jesus and I just want to live for him. I'll be honest, sometimes in my mind I may think about my own desires, but deep down I just want Jesus. (this is the honest truth)

I do feel a sense of power over sin, in particular my two biggest weaknesses. I'm more aware of the things in my life that I need to stay away from, i.e. certain tv shows, movies, music; knowing that it is not a good idea to watch or listen to. I've also noticed that there are A LOT of tv shows/movies that use God's name with profanity, not sure if this has increased lately, or I didn't notice before, but it makes me cringe.

Another big change is that I see things from a completely different perspective! I am a lot more sensitive to my own sin, the sin of the world, and the desperate state this world is in. When I hear about people dying, especially young people, I always wonder if they knew Christ. Actually, I'm constantly wondering if the people I encounter day-to-day know Christ. There are a lot of people that need to know him! I feel a need to tell people about Jesus, knowing he is the only true way to life. I see how blind I was before to sin, and I think about other people who are as blind as I was that need to know Christ.


I'm less critical of others; I mentioned earlier that I'm more sensitive of my own sin, I cannot judge someone else without being honest and saying "well I'm a sinner too." I don't condone their sin, or mine, but I'm just more aware that externals can be deceptive, and that I fall way short of God's glory. The more I read my Bible, the more I realize how short I fall of his holiness. Again, I think about how blind I used to be; I grew up in church and went to private school, but it never registered with me. That amazes me! I understand how so many people are blind

These are the things I have noticed about myself; Interestingly, I never stopped to really think about these until you asked the question. Sometimes I do compare myself to older Christians at my church as they seem more spiritual/Godly than I do, maybe I shouldn't do that. I'm going through a difficult trial of loneliness right now, It's been at least 3-4 years since I've had a single friend or girlfriend. Sometimes I feel like people see something bad about me, that I myself don't see. It seems like no matter where I go, people just don't like me. This makes me concerned because the attractiveness of the holy spirit should cause someone to like me, right? There are a few people at my church who are very nice and welcoming, but others not so much. As a 24 year old single, I feel quite alone, even at my church (roughly 600-700 members). This might be because everybody has family/friends there, but I don't know anyone. I'm not sure if this is in my head (bc I do overthink things) or if it's me.

My hearts desire is to live for God, If I could have one thing it would be to walk in his will for my life, just knowing I'm his. I serve in a few ministries at my church, and most of those individuals are nice to me, but I can't help but feel like everybody sees something that I don't! I also want to serve God with my job, I feel like I could use my skills for something better than to help a big time corp. make $$

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello All,

Thank you For your replies! @St_Worm2, thanks for your reply I will try to answer as best and as honest as I can!

I would say the biggest change is my desire to have a close relationship with God! When I sin, it's more that simply knowing that I messed up, but that my sins are keeping me from a close relationship with God and I hate it! An actual desire to read my Bible more, and constantly praying. I would say my number one goal is to discover his will for my life, I simply want to have a close relationship with him. When I sin, I feel disappointed in myself just knowing that this is not who I am, and that these things keep me from a close relationship to God and that sin is very serous, enough that Christ had to Die. This leads me to ask for forgiveness and really want to turn away!

I also see things are bigger than myself; it's not just about me, but how God can use me to reach others. I have an increasing desire to know Jesus and I just want to live for him. I'll be honest, sometimes in my mind I may think about my own desires, but deep down I just want Jesus. (this is the honest truth)

I do feel a sense of power over sin, in particular my two biggest weaknesses. I'm more aware of the things in my life that I need to stay away from, i.e. certain tv shows, movies, music; knowing that it is not a good idea to watch or listen to. I've also noticed that there are A LOT of tv shows/movies that use God's name with profanity, not sure if this has increased lately, or I didn't notice before, but it makes me cringe.

Another big change is that I see things from a completely different perspective! I am a lot more sensitive to my own sin, the sin of the world, and the desperate state this world is in. When I hear about people dying, especially young people, I always wonder if they knew Christ. Actually, I'm constantly wondering if the people I encounter day-to-day know Christ. There are a lot of people that need to know him! I feel a need to tell people about Jesus, knowing he is the only true way to life. I see how blind I was before to sin, and I think about other people who are as blind as I was that need to know Christ.

I'm less critical of others; I mentioned earlier that I'm more sensitive of my own sin, I cannot judge someone else without being honest and saying "well I'm a sinner too." I don't condone their sin, or mine, but I'm just more aware that externals can be deceptive, and that I fall way short of God's glory. The more I read my Bible, the more I realize how short I fall of his holiness. Again, I think about how blind I used to be; I grew up in church and went to private school, but it never registered with me. That amazes me! I understand how so many people are blind

Wow, that was actually very touching Sirius! What a beautiful testimony of how God has changed you into a "new creature" in His Son (click here to see: 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ezekiel 36:26; John 3:3; John 5:24; Ephesians 2:10)! I 'praise' Him for the marvelous things He has done in your life

The things you spoke of above ARE the things that accompany salvation (i.e. Hebrews 6:9), IOW, they are the outward signs that verify/demonstrate/"justify" your claim of faith, your claim of becoming a Christian (James 2:24). So my advice to you is to remember what the Lord did for you (and that He apparently thought it more important to die for you than to live w/o you ), and to also remember, therefore, HOW MUCH He loves you

Sins are horrible things and we need to repent of them as soon the HS makes us aware of them (1 John 1:9), but at the same time, you need to understand that God knows our condition, our weaknesses, and you need to know that He will not abandon you because of them. He has adopted you. You are "family" now! So whenever you have such thoughts (that He might send you to Hell), remember "who" it is that is whispering such things in your ear and take those thoughts "captive" (and let the Lord deal with .. see 2 Corinthians 10:5; Ephesians 6:10-17). NEVER forget that you have an "enemy" of your soul who hates you simply because you are a child of the Living God

Sirius, your Abba, Father, is FOR you, He's never against you And the One who saved you in the first place is the very same One who has promised to see you through this life to Glory (see Philippians 1:6; John 6:39; Romans 8:28-30; Hebrews 7:25). You believed and trusted Him at His word when you became a Christian (and you said that you want to please Him in all you do), so just continue to believe and trust Him with your life now (and in His great promise to "save you to the uttermost" .. Hebrews 7:25) and you 'will' please Him .. see Hebrews 11:1 & 6.

Blessings to you in Christ! (Numbers 6:24-26; Jude 24-25)

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

These are the things I have noticed about myself; Interestingly, I never stopped to really think about these until you asked the question.

Hi Sirius, it's actually a good thing to look back at your life and see how God has worked in it. That was one of the big things that really caused me to trust Him with my life when I first became a Christian 30 years ago. I noticed things about my life, not only the obvious things that happened to me just prior to becoming a Christian (which were amazing in themselves), but how everything "bad" that happened in my past actually ended up being something better for me than if life had gone the way I had intended or hoped it would. So I am very glad that you have begun to recognize all these things because, as I'm sure you've now realized, they help you have "assurance" where your salvation is concerned (which is something that God 'wants' us to have, BTW .. i.e. 1 John 5:13 ).

Sometimes I do compare myself to older Christians at my church as they seem more spiritual/Godly than I do, maybe I shouldn't do that.

It's good to see what you will become, but it's also important not to worry because, obviously, those who are older in Christ should be more mature in their faith than you are, so they are good people to emulate and to run ideas by/get advice from Just understand that you are not one iota less "Christian" than they are, and you are no less loved by God

I'm going through a difficult trial of loneliness right now, It's been at least 3-4 years since I've had a single friend or girlfriend. Sometimes I feel like people see something bad about me, that I myself don't see. It seems like no matter where I go, people just don't like me. This makes me concerned because the attractiveness of the holy spirit should cause someone to like me, right?

I'm sorry to hear that. I will pray for you about those things (there are some pretty active singles boards here at CF that might be fun for you to check out ). I think you are probably misreading other's opinions of you (you aren't doing anything to offend anyone that you know of, are you ).

As for being a Christian and being led by the HS, actually, that can have the opposite effect on your life, especially when you truly walk with/live for him because as the Bible tells us, "all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted." ~2 Tim 3:12. A number of family members and lifelong friends turned their back on me when I became a Christian (which was and is a very sad thing )

There are a few people at my church who are very nice and welcoming, but others not so much. As a 24 year old single, I feel quite alone, even at my church (roughly 600-700 members). This might be because everybody has family/friends there, but I don't know anyone. I'm not sure if this is in my head (bc I do overthink things) or if it's me.

I'm guess'n it's all in your head, especially if you are the type who "overthinks" things. Why don't you just ask someone at church, maybe one of those "mature" believers or your pastor. Tell them how you feel and ask them what they think.

As for the loneliness, why don't you try inviting a few of your ministry partners out for a meal sometime, right after church, or right after you get done working as a group. That's how I got to know a lot of people (and they me) when I first came to Christ, and to the new church that He had ready for me to join

Small groups are really good too, where you can pray, study, fellowship, and witness with a regular group. It would be especially cool if it was a group that included at least one or two other young, single adults like yourself. Why not ask your pastor if such a group exists? (or if not, see if you can form one yourself )

My hearts desire is to live for God, If I could have one thing it would be to walk in his will for my life, just knowing I'm his. I serve in a few ministries at my church, and most of those individuals are nice to me, but I can't help but feel like everybody sees something that I don't! I also want to serve God with my job, I feel like I could use my skills for something better than to help a big time corp. make $$

Hey, if you have a close friend in one or more of the ministries you serve in, why not ask them to give you an honest assessment of, well, "you" Like I said, tell someone what's going on, IOW, what you are sensing about others and their opinions of you, and see if your friend thinks it's true.

As far as your job is concerned, you serve Him wherever you are, of course, but if you are talking about full-time missionary work (or the pastorate or counseling), and you sense Him pointing you in that direction, you should definitely look into it. You are actually at the perfect age right now!

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - praying for you!