Entire sanctification.

[giftofGod2]

It says in Proverbs that the prudent man conceals knowedge while at the same time dispersing it.

So I encourage everyone to look up the following verses further down the line (I decided not to quote them for you), and maybe even write down the references to them in your Bibles at the end of the book of Jude so that when you get there in your reading you can look them all up as a reminder that we are to be holy.

This is what I did. And BY THE WAY, I finish all the epistles once a week by reading according to the following guideline:

1) 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, John 6:35, 4:12-13, 7:37-39, 6:47, 5:24, 8:31-36, 11:25-27, James, Romans 6-8, Hebrews 10, Jude.
2) Romans
3) 1 Corinthians
4) 2 Corinthians
5) Galatians-Colossians, Revelation 2-3
6) 1 Thessalonians-Philemon
7) Hebrews

The scriptures on entire sanctification are as follows (the KJV is best to get the intended meaning):

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, Titus 2:14, 1 John 3:5-9, Hebrews 10:10,14, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11, Romans 6:7, John 8:31-36. 2 Corinthians 5:17, Philippians 1:10 (compare to James 3:2), Ephesians 2:1-9, Ephesians 4:24, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 3:7, 1 John 2:6,

Ephesians 4:12-13, Matthew 5:48, 2 Corinthians 13:9,11, Hebrews 13:20-21, Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, Jude 1, 2 Thessalonians 2:12-13, 1 Peter 1:2, Acts 26:18, Acts 20:32, James 1:4, 1 John 2:10,

2 Timothy 3:17, Philippians 3:15, Colossians 3:14, Hebrews 12:14, 1 Peter 5:10-12,

1 Corinthians 10:12-13, 1 Peter 1:6-7, James 1:12, 1 Thessalonians 3:5.

 

[giftofGod2]

bumping this up for the webcrawlers and for those people who didn't do what the OP asks of you the first time...

 

[bbbbbbb]

bumping this up for the webcrawlers and for those people who didn't do what the OP asks of you the first time...

Okay. I know the passages you mentioned. In Romans 7:14-25 Paul is quite explicit that he was far from entire sancitification and he assuredly holds out no hope for those who think it possible.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Okay. I know the passages you mentioned. In Romans 7:14-25 Paul is quite explicit that he was far from entire sancitification and he assuredly holds out no hope for those who think it possible.

And yet Y'SHUA MESSIAH SANCTIFIES who HE chooses,
and PAUL and ecclesia throughout the NEW TESTAMENT
are declared not only SANCTIFIED but also holy, blameless,
and "seated with MESSIAH in heavenlies"
and "in union" with Y'SHUA and with YHWH many times (throughout NT).

Oh, and continually full of immeasurable PEACE and JOY and RIGHTEOUSNESS....

 

[giftofGod2]

@bbbbbbb

Romans 7 is speaking of those who are still under the law and identified by the catch-phrase in the flesh.

Compare Romans 7:5 to Romans 7:23 (in our members) and Romans 7:5 to Romans 8:8-10 (in the flesh).

Romans 7:14-25, also refers to those who are under the law of sin and death, as the passage describes the law of sin and death. Read Romans 8:2 and you will see that we as sanctified believers are set free from that.

Finally, Romans 7:14-25 speaks of those who are carnal, sold under sin. (verse 14). Not of those who are redeemed (bought back) from sin. And also if you look up 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, you will see that carnal is identified as the opposite of spiritual and that a man is one or the other.

I believe that Paul was utilizing a specific literary tactic in which he set himself forth as something that he in all reality was not, in order to better identify what that thing is, in the passage, that thing being the person who is bound by the law of sin and death.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I believe that Paul was utilizing a specific literary tactic in which he set himself forth as something that he in all reality was not, in order to better identify what that thing is, in the passage, that thing being the person who is bound by the law of sin and death.

Possibly he is speaking of various[different] times in his life, describing them as inspired by YHWH'S SPIRIT or taught to him by Y'SHUA,
and this is reflected also in other unbelievers turned believers lives as well,
routinely in YHWH'S PLAN.

 

[giftofGod2]

@bbbbbbbb

Did you look up the passages fresh in the order that I gave them? Or did you just assume that you already know them and therefore you don't have to look them up?

 

[Soyeong]

@bbbbbbb

Romans 7 is speaking of those who are still under the law and identified by the catch-phrase in the flesh.

Compare Romans 7:5 to Romans 7:23 (in our members) and Romans 7:5 to Romans 8:8-10 (in the flesh).

Romans 7:14-25, also refers to those who are under the law of sin and death, as the passage describes the law of sin and death. Read Romans 8:2 and you will see that we as sanctified believers are set free from that.

Finally, Romans 7:14-25 speaks of those who are carnal, sold under sin. (verse 14). Not of those who are redeemed (bought back) from sin. And also if you look up 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, you will see that carnal is identified as the opposite of spiritual and that a man is one or the other.

I believe that Paul was utilizing a specific literary tactic in which he set himself forth as something that he in all reality was not, in order to better identify what that thing is, in the passage, that thing being the person who is bound by the law of sin and death.

Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

It is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us, not God's law. In Romans 7, Paul said that God's law was holy, righteous, and good, that it was the good that he sought to do, and delighted in doing, but contrasted that with a law of sin that was stirring up sin and causing him not to do the good that he wanted to do, so the law of sin is in opposition to God's law. Our sanctification is about going through the process of being made to be like Christ is doing what is holy, righteous, and good, as he did in perfect accordance with the law, but it is not a process that is completed until the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6).

In Galatians 5:16-23, everything that is listed as being works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law, while everything listed as being fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with God's law, which should come as no surprise because the Mosaic law was given by God and the Spirit is God. So the law that Galatians 5:18 is saying that we are not under if we are led by the Spirit is likewise the law of sin. In Romans 7:14, Paul said that God's law was spiritual and in Romans 8:7, Paul said that it is those whose mind is set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law.

 

[bbbbbbb]

And yet Y'SHUA MESSIAH SANCTIFIES who HE chooses,
and PAUL and ecclesia throughout the NEW TESTAMENT
are declared not only SANCTIFIED but also holy, blameless,
and "seated with MESSIAH in heavenlies"
and "in union" with Y'SHUA and with YHWH many times (throughout NT).

Oh, and continually full of immeasurable PEACE and JOY and RIGHTEOUSNESS....

All these things, and more, but entire sanctification so that a person is utterly incapable of committing sin? No.

 

[Tree of Life]

pffffffft

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

All these things, and more, but entire sanctification so that a person is utterly incapable of committing sin? No.

That's not what SCRIPTURE says nor what I posted.

 

[giftofGod2]

@Soyeong

What it means that we are not under the law of Moses, is that we are justified from all things, from which we could not be justified by the law of Moses (Acts 13:39).

It means we are forgiven of past, present, and future sin (Romans 4:8), and this is how it is related to us concerning the law's relationship to us: that we are no longer under the law (of Moses). Also we are delivered from the law (of Moses) and dead to the law (of Moses). Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6.

I don't believe that the above verses are speaking particularily of "the law of sin and death". I believe the law "of sin and death" would have been specified. Anytime the law is not specified as something different, the scripture is speaking of the law of Moses when it refers to the law, and more generally it can be referring to any set of do's and don'ts that we set in front of us as a method of earning God's favour.

But again, the fact that we are not under the law, are dead to the law, and are delivered from the law, is referring to the fact that the law no longer has the power to condemn us, because we are forgiven through the blood of Christ.

It is not saying that we will therefore not obey the law. The spiritual mind is subject to the law of God (Romans 8:7).

And a point also about Galatians 5:19-24: without ever having laid eyes on the requirement, one who walks according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh will fuflill the law's requirement: as we bear the fruit of the Spirit there is no law that will condemn us or come against us, because the fruit of the Spirit is completely in accordance with the law of God without even needing to look into the law of God (the requirement) to find out what it is. See also Romans 2:13-15.

 

[giftofGod2]

All these things, and more, but entire sanctification so that a person is utterly incapable of committing sin? No.

You cannot take the Bible literally then when it comes to 1 John 3:9 or the other verses I have posted.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You cannot take the Bible literally then when it comes to 1 John 3:9 or the other verses I have posted.

It is not only TRUE,
YHWH HIMSELF guards HIS WORD even more than HIS OWN NAME.
So again, 1 John 3:9 ,
YHWH BREATHED ,
YHWH ACCOMPLISHES ,
PERFECTLY as HE SAYS and DOES.
YES and AMEIN in Y'SHUA ! HALLELUYAH !

 

[bbbbbbb]

That's not what SCRIPTURE says nor what I posted.

I agreed with what you posted. You did not post that anyone is incapable of committing sin, but that is exactly what the doctrine of entire sanctification teaches.

 

[giftofGod2]

I agreed with what you posted. You did not post that anyone is incapable of committing sin, but that is exactly what the doctrine of entire sanctification teaches.

That is what 1 John 3:9 teaches.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You cannot take the Bible literally then when it comes to 1 John 3:9 or the other verses I have posted.

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His see abides in him; and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

I John 1:8-10 If we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Which is true? They were both written by John in the same letter.

 

[giftofGod2]

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His see abides in him; and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

I John 1:8-10 If we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Which is true? They were both written by John in the same letter.

They are not contradictory as you suppose. One speaks of indwelling sin and the other speaks of the pratice of sin. Sin can indwell a man and be quite dead.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...

 

[bbbbbbb]

They are not contradictory as you suppose. One speaks of indwelling sin and the other speaks of the pratice of sin. Sin can indwell a man and be quite dead.

I did not mean to imply that they are contradictory. I understand them to mean that yes, all Christians sin and those who deny that they sin are liars and the truth is not in them, but if they confess their sins God is faithful and will forgive their sins. However, Christians are not characterized by a life of sin, but one of righteous living. If one lives in sin then one is not a Christian. All Christians live righteously.