"Enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures"

[RMDY]

It is a sin to be enslaved to all kinds of passions and pleasures. [Titus]

I formed a list of things on what was sin and what was more according to the Spirit, and I looked up the definitions of them so I could learn something and improve upon myself:

pas·sion play_w("P0098700") 1. A powerful emotion, such as love, joy, hatred, or anger.
2. a. Ardent love.
b. Strong sexual desire; lust.
c. The object of such love or desire.

A lot of people on this forum believe that same-sex relations is not a sinful passion. But in Titus, we are told to not be engaged in all kinds of passions and pleasures.
Then when I read scriptures, I believe Paul, Peter, and Jesus, as well as God, the Father, all talk about a natural relationship as something between a man and a women.

Perhaps some of our passions aren't inline with the Father's will?

 

[RMDY]

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I, for one, am not "enslaved" by my passion.

But, as Paul states in Galatians, neither am I a slave to the Law. (If I were, that would be a rejection of Christ!)

My passion is utterly aimed at God, and God brings fruit to it in my ministry and in my relationship with my partner.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear Chalice_Thunder,

I, for one, am not "enslaved" by my passion.

well anyone who sins is a slave to sin - John 8:34, We are not discussing which of us are sinners, we all are, we are discussing what the sin is. Yes Romans 6 does say as Christians we are not under law, but it also says we are either slaves to sin which leads to death or to obedience which lead to righteousness.

My passion is utterly aimed at God, and God brings fruit to it in my ministry and in my relationship with my partner.

The Bible tells us this is slavery to sin and death. 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1. Infact as Christians we are to flee all sexual immorality and, Ephesians 5, there shouldnt even be a hint of sexual immorality, which then continues to talks about wives and husbands.
No as Christians we know that we are bought at a price and we should honour our bodies 1 Cor 6.

 

[RMDY]

I, for one, am not "enslaved" by my passion.

But, as Paul states in Galatians, neither am I a slave to the Law. (If I were, that would be a rejection of Christ!)

My passion is utterly aimed at God, and God brings fruit to it in my ministry and in my relationship with my partner.

Hi brother =)
I wasn't referring to the Law in my post.

I was talking about things we are passionate for and desire that are contrary to what God wants us to do. For example,
A passion for Grandtheft auto video game is not inline with God's heart.
A passion for sex is not inline with God's heart.
A passion where music defines our life and who we are rather than God is not inline with God's heart.
A passion for fashion (like the rhyme? ) is not in line with God's heart. God doesn't want us caring more about clothes and using our money for looking beautiful over caring for others.
A passion for sorcery and harry potter and of the likes is not in line with God because God doesn't like sorcery.
A passion for watch inappropriate content is not in line with God. This one is obvious.
A passion for riches are not inline with God's heart because money is a security that relies on the World and takes away from our faith in God.
I believe that the passion of same-sex relations is a sin because it slanders what I believe to be God-breathed Scripture regarding Adam and Even. I am a believer in Adam and Eve and for that reason, I view passions that take away from this believe, that God created men and women only for each other, to be a sin.

Do you see what I mean?

God frees us. He doesn't say to us "Do this because I am the Lord"
but rather "Be holy because I am holy" and "love the Lord with all your mind, body, and soul" This is a command to seek the Lord's heart. Even in the Father's prayer, the phrase "Let your will be done and not mine" actually has to do with doing what the Lord wants us to do in our lives rather than what we believe we should be doing.

Since my passion and desire is, by nature, to have sex with my girlfriend and be engaged in sexual lusts and lovin' with her, I abstain from such things before marriage because I desire to seek the Lord's heart, because I love God more than I love my girlfriend to the point I would give up all of those things entirely.

But this is what I believe
God bless you,

- Rob

 

[RMDY]

In our struggles against sin nature, we are all going to fall short of the glory of God, but these are birth pangs we experience for the greater glory of God, who gives us strength to overcome all things. Through the richness of his mercy and grace, we can boldly come to God, asking for his love, mercy, and forgiveness as we repent for our sins.
Chris Tomlin says in one of his songs "The joy of the lord is my strength"

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I understand, Rob.

I'm just telling you that my passion is for God - and in natural progression from that godly passion come my ministry and my relationship, because both of those point back to God.

Thanks for your post

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

So that means heterosexuality is a sin too?

Thanks for clearing that up.

Seriously though, to assume all homosexuals focus only on the last part of that word is rather, well, wrong. A homosexual can have a same sex partner but still be more passionate for God.

 

[ServantofShangDi]

Well, I kind of just realized something.

Technically the Bible only presents sexual relations as immoral, not marriage. Plenty of married couples don't really have sex so is that immoral if two guys get married and never actually have sex or if two girls do the same?

However, I believe ultimately that homosexuality is essentially a form of enslavement to passion. I mean some people don't drink a lot, but does that mean getting drunk is not being enslaved to passion?

 

[BAFRIEND]

[Technically the Bible only presents sexual relations as immoral, not marriage. Plenty of married couples don't really have sex so is that immoral if two guys get married and never actually have sex or if two girls do the same?

The Bible, Jesus, only speaks of marriage between a man and woman. There is no such thing as a same sex marriage.

 

[davedjy]

It is a sin to be enslaved to all kinds of passions and pleasures. [Titus]

I formed a list of things on what was sin and what was more according to the Spirit, and I looked up the definitions of them so I could learn something and improve upon myself:

pas·sion play_w("P0098700") 1. A powerful emotion, such as love, joy, hatred, or anger.
2. a. Ardent love.
b. Strong sexual desire; lust.
c. The object of such love or desire.

A lot of people on this forum believe that same-sex relations is not a sinful passion. But in Titus, we are told to not be engaged in all kinds of passions and pleasures.
Then when I read scriptures, I believe Paul, Peter, and Jesus, as well as God, the Father, all talk about a natural relationship as something between a man and a women.

Perhaps some of our passions aren't inline with the Father's will?

You don't have any direct correlation back to same sex love. I could use the same passage to condemn all forms of heterosexual sex, with your same formula.

 

[RMDY]

I understand, Rob.

I'm just telling you that my passion is for God - and in natural progression from that godly passion come my ministry and my relationship, because both of those point back to God.

Thanks for your post

God bless! Praise God for seeking the Lord! =)

So that means heterosexuality is a sin too?

Thanks for clearing that up.

Seriously though, to assume all homosexuals focus only on the last part of that word is rather, well, wrong. A homosexual can have a same sex partner but still be more passionate for God.

No problem =)
God bless FatherDaughter
Hetrosexuality has so many sinful issues! I can feel the spiritual battle going on all the time over this issue within me. My soul cries out to God, my heart and my mind are always in conflict with each other over issues and I feel the outside and inner forces always trying to work against me, while the Holy Spirit pushes me in one direction and convicts me of sin and teaches me things as well.

You don't have any direct correlation back to same sex love. I could use the same passage to condemn all forms of heterosexual sex, with your same formula.

Yes. I agree with you on this issue. I don't have any correlative passages that parallel the parables and teachings about same-sex relations. But I do believe in how Scripture reveals the way of thinking of the people in the old and new testament. Through reasoning, I look at how Jesus, Paul, and Peter, and God the Father spoke throughout scripture on those issues of relationships. I believe it reflects their thinking and the kind of relationships that were considered to be "normal" back then.
You are right on one issue: Times have changed and perhaps there is a need for homosexuals to have the right to marry and love one another. But I have the belief that this isn't inline with the kind of relationships we should have when we follow God.
But the issue isn't about condemning things, because as Christians we don't condemn people for what they do but point out things to further their Spiritual relationship with God. After all, Christianity isn't a religion about systems and God telling you what to do this and that but about a spiritual relationship with God. And when you are in a relationship, there is an exchange of love and respect. The New covenant is about the heart, while the Law is about the externals. There is a big difference. We observe God's heart, not a law. If I wanted to observe laws over God's heart, I would convert to Islam, or Judaism, or something along those lines. God doesn't care how much mascara a person wears, or how many times they pray, or whether your Jew, Gentile, man or women. He cares where a person's heart is and what is clean and unclean within that heart, according to His own heart. For example, prostitution may be a good and bad thing for people, depending on who does it and how they do it, but nonetheless, it is wrong in God's eyes no matter how legal and right that Man makes it out to be.

We all fall short of the glory of God, but as we are convicted by the Holy Spirit that works within us, we change and put on new selves, and work towards how God wants us to be and not what we want to be. But we shouldn't be pointing out condemnations against others, but encouraging others in love and doing our best to further their spiritual relationship with God. Love never fails and God is love. God loves you Davedjy---he sent himself in the flesh, his only begotton Son, Jesus, to die for you on the cross, in excruciating pain! The prophets and the apostles died for you so that the message of the gospel could be preached to the World. There is nothing better than to lay down ones life for another in love.

Dave, I believe that a lot of people reap what they sow. A lot of people are self condemning and slander the name of God by doing what they do, but that is the case with a lot of things. Evidence of this is how people look at Scripture and then look at Christian marriage and use that to point out that God is a god of hypocrites, which isn't the case.

Do you remember the parable Jesus spoke about on saltiness? We may call ourselves Christians, but if we do what is contrary to what we've been taught, especially if we are deceived, then we are led astray and lose our saltiness, though we are still salt.

If you want to condemn hetrosexual relationships, go ahead. Use what I said to condemn it. And I will agree with you, because this world is a sick and distorted place based on homo and hetrosexuality, distorted by the works of Satan, who is our enemy.
But you cannot condemn any kind of hetrosexual marriage within the bible because we both know that God, according to the Scriptures, sanctifies it, if done according to His will.

 

[ServantofShangDi]

The Bible, Jesus, only speaks of marriage between a man and woman. There is no such thing as a same sex marriage.

Just because they don't mention it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it doesn't mean it's immoral either. You're basically saying that two people of the same sex living together and sharing expenses is immoral. Mind you, I'm not saying they're having sex. I'm saying they're not. The Bible talks about the sexual side being immoral. It never said anything about all the other stuff that goes with marriage.

 

[RMDY]

Just because they don't mention it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it doesn't mean it's immoral either. You're basically saying that two people of the same sex living together and sharing expenses is immoral. Mind you, I'm not saying they're having sex. I'm saying they're not. The Bible talks about the sexual side being immoral. It never said anything about all the other stuff that goes with marriage.

Paul writes in his letters that we all came from one man, Adam. He claims to receive direct revelations from the Lord about Jesus. Paul can't be wrong, can he?

Mind you, this one man Adam had a wife named Eve and because of both of them, we all suffer as Christians under Satan's domain, who is the Prince of this world.

Jesus will come to drive this evil prince away from here and his Kingdom will come upon the earth.

And according to the story of Adam and Eve, God created man and women for each other.

In Leviticus, we find God is not happy with same-gender relationships in temples(Leviticus18) and out of temples (Leviticus20). Remember in Genesis when Ham looked at his father's nakedness and was cursed for it? Take note that it is the Isralites that drove the Cannanites away from the land for their wickedness.
In Leviticus20, God tells his people to not do what the Cannanites did. No where does it say it is limited to temple worship.

But for those who don't care about the Law, no problem!
We aren't really suppose to observe the Law anyway.

Nonetheless, if we look at all the parables of Jesus dealing with relationships we will find that they have to do with relationships between men and women. Jesus relates himself to being a husband waiting for his bridesmaid (the church). Jesus discusses divorce, and even mentions Adam, another topic on the relationships between men and women.

Then there is the apostles letters that were written. Paul talks about in Corinthians that men and women exchanged their "normal" relations for people of their same genders for temple prostitution. Nonetheless, the fact that he used the word normal to describe relationships means that he believed that "normal" relationships were between men and women.

Now, we know that there were male prostitutes in the bible from what we can gather about various religious worships in Scripture.

Since God tells us to not do these things, prostitution in temples with men and women, there must have been an idea 2000 years ago of what homosexuality was. Although, their way of thinking back then was that it was probably a lustful thing.

Still, the people back then in ancient Israel viewed anything outside the contexts of a marriage between a man and a women, even pre-marital sex, as an immoral thing. Jesus, Paul, and Peter affirm this in the new covenant, saying we must abstain from lusts and fornications. Paul even makes mention that if we burn with passion, we are to marry.

From my reasoning, based on how Paul, Peter, and Paul spoke and based on Old Testament Laws and the story of Adam and Even, I believe that sexual relations are limited, godly, to the relationship between a man and a women in a binding marriage.

 

[ServantofShangDi]

Again, like I said, it only talks about sex.

Where does it mention marriage? Nowhere! I actually read and it mentions the immorality of certain instances of male-female marriages, but says nothing of same-sex marriage.

That's what people in the legal community call a loophole.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Again, like I said, it only talks about sex.

Where does it mention marriage? Nowhere! I actually read and it mentions the immorality of certain instances of male-female marriages, but says nothing of same-sex marriage.

That's what people in the legal community call a loophole.[/SIZE]

God is not a lawyer and does not deal in loopholes!

 

[RMDY]

Again, like I said, it only talks about sex.

Where does it mention marriage? Nowhere! I actually read and it mentions the immorality of certain instances of male-female marriages, but says nothing of same-sex marriage.

That's what people in the legal community call a loophole.

You missed other points of what I said. Did you ever note the kinds of parables Jesus talks about? You will find that a lot of parables and discussions on marital relationships between men and women are spoken by Peter, Paul, and Jesus, and in my opinion, this reflects their thinking. Top this off with Paul speaking that we all came from one man, Adam, and that he says in Corinthians people exchanged "normal" relations for same-sex ones in temples, gives you an insight about how Jesus, Peter, and Paul viewed marital relationships.

Adam and Eve + New Testament talk about marital relations between men and women + Paul's speaking on coming from one man, Adam + Leviticus18 and 20 on relations reveals some insight on what a godly relationship between a man and a women should be. (In my opinion)
Together that in Genesis, God urges humanity to go forth and be fruitful paints a picture for us about how God views relationships:

Hmmm,
God created Man and Women and urges people to be fruitful.
God tells Israel not to prostitute themselves, not to commit adultery, not to have same-gender relations.
Jesus speaks parables on relations about man and women
Jesus relates himself as the husband waiting for his bridesmaids
Jesus teaches about divorce and makes mention about Adam
Paul believes that we all came from one man, Adam
Paul speaks that people exchanged "natural relations" for people in temples of the same gender
Paul says that if we burn with passion, we are to marry.
Paul makes a lot of advice to widows, young men and older man, young and older women about marital things
Jesus gives marital advice about relations between man and women

So you see? I'm not talking just about sex here but about how I believe the bible paints a picture of what marriage is based on the Old and New Testament, based on what people said, what they did, and what God commanded, and what was taught, and based on how people sinned.