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END-TIMES IN ISLAM : What is the number of Beast = 666 ?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by suhail380, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. suhail380

    suhail380 Senior Analyst

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    ...........................................................................................................
    WHAT BIBLE SAYS ABOUT WARS AND EARTHQUAKES IN THE END-TIMES
    ...........................................................................................................


    Mark 13:7-8 King James Version (KJV)

    7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars, are ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

    8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in diverse places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

    Luke 21:10-11 King James Version (KJV)

    10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

    11 And great earthquakes shall be in diverse places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

    .................................................................................................
     
  2. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

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    Hardly "tore asunder."
     
  3. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

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    I looked up Matt 24:3-14 and Luke 21:8-11
    earlier this evening because I was curious.

    But it is/was hardly anything new,
    there has always been earthquakes, wars and sickness and hunger,

    I take it he meant they shall increase in intensity,

    Just how many have died in Mosul alone and how many injured and homeless plus the city
    in complete ruins.

    No, smart weapons are not so smart either,
    Who is going to clean up the mess.

    There will never be peace,

    This world is so full of lies and corruption,

    But there is a world to come,
     
  4. EyesOfKohl

    EyesOfKohl Sufi

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    As-salaam alaikum Suhail

    Which numerical assigning system did you use to get the above?

    I believe the concept you are referring to through number assigning to an alphabet in Jewish Cabala is called Gematria, which also had it's beginnings in Babylonian and Chaldean magic systems.

    Number values and their assigned letter can vary depending on the system you use to apply it.
     
  5. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

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    I'm not quite sure why there are so many Muslims and Jews here trying to explain to Christians what the New Testament means.

    Thanks for the thought and everything, but we've got it under control.
     
  6. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

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    FYI, I don,t dabble in the number buisness,
    I have seen some, it is there but I personly do not touch it, it would be more than I could bear.
     
  7. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

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    Or, if you like, "Don,t touch the hotplate because it is hot."
    Come to think of it,
    "Don,t eat of the fruit from that tree........."
    Is similar, or what?
     
  8. Jane_the_Bane

    Jane_the_Bane Gaia's godchild

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    Scholars pretty unanimously agree that the "666" was a chiffre for Emperor Nero, who was particularly hated.
    Don't forget: the first few generations of Christians lived in the utter certainty that the end of the world was already at hand, and the Kingdom would be there any day now. Paul asks if it still makes sense to marry in such days, or whether it'd be more profitable to focus on the approaching cataclysm. And one of the evangelists had Jesus proclaim that the last of his first-hand witnesses would still be alive by the time he returned to usher in the end.
     
  9. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

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    Here is something of a novelty or a doodle,

    1+2+3+4+5+6+7 and so on until 36 the sum is 666,
    nothing new, no nothing new,
    what is amusing though is,
    at 17 the sum is 153, the number of different fish in the net,
    at 23 the sum is 276, the number of persons on board with Paul(Acts 27:37)

    Well, a novelty
     
  10. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    There is a valid criticism to be made about this (perhaps not toward you or I personally, but toward the entirety of Christendom as we appear to represent it, to those outside - Matthew 13:25): Church of the Holy Sepulchre - Wikipedia.

    The major message that Jesus Christ brought in His time, is found in Acts 10:34, John 4:23, Matthew 8:10-12. The same theme carries forth in the present day (Matthew 7:21, John 10:14-16, Romans 11:23-27).

    On that point, remember that Christianity is Judaism and it is only the consequence of normal human nature that they had not received Messiah 2,000 years ago (Luke 13:34-35). On the other hand, it is certainly God's intention to restore them (Romans 11:15, Zechariah 12:10, Hosea 11:10-11), but it won't be as it might have been before.. because The Holy Spirit has breathed new scripture (as per 1 Corinthians 14:32), for example: Romans 3:1-2, Galatians 3:28 and 1 Corinthians 12:25-26.
     
  11. Jane_the_Bane

    Jane_the_Bane Gaia's godchild

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    The Qabalah is all about this kind of number mysticism, although many modern practitioners treat it more like zen koans or Discordian absurdism, trying to see beyond the apparent patterns instead of accepting them as objective reality.

    See, the human mind is uniquely geared towards detecting and - even more importantly in this context - generating patterns, and number symbolism is absolutely "perfect" when it comes to the latter.
     
  12. suhail380

    suhail380 Senior Analyst

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    WARNING : FOLLOWING CONTENTS CAN AFFECT THE FEELINGS OF SENSITIVE READERS.
    ...........................................................................................................................

    Mary in Islam

    Al-Koran, Chapter 3 (Aal-E-Imran [The Family of Imran])


    003.036

    When she (mother of Mary / wife of Imran) was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and God knew best what she brought forth- "And no wise is the male Like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."


    003.037

    Right graciously did her Lord accept her: He made her grow in purity and beauty: To the care of Zackariah was she assigned. Every time that he entered (her) chamber to see her, He found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?" She said: "From God: for God provides sustenance to whom He pleases without measure."


    003.042

    Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

    .................................................................................................................

    .
     
  13. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Of course, it doesn't say that these things happen in "the end times", it actually is quite clear--it's right there in Mark's version of the Olivet Discourse, "for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet."

    These are not signs of the end. That's the point here. Wars, rumors of wars, nations rising against nation, earthquakes, disease, natural disasters--these are not signs of the end, these are things that happen. They happen all the time, and have happened throughout the whole of history.

    Jesus' entire point here is not to regard these things as signs, and to then flip out and think the end is near.

    In fact, when Jesus does talk about the end He's quite clear--there are no signs. He says it will be as in Noah's day, with people getting married, going about their business--it will be life as normal--when suddenly, and without warning the flood came. In that same way, when Jesus comes, people will be going about their business, two will be in a field, two will be in the kitchen making bread, etc. There aren't signs here, it is noticeably sign-less. He says it is like a thief in the night. He says specifically to His followers to always be vigilant because they do not know when He comes. Also saying, "No one knows the day or the hour" and then in the Acts of the Apostles says, "It is not for you to know the times and seasons which the Father has planned".

    There is a great big megaphone here saying that we can't predict the future, we can't know when it will happen, that there are no big signs to look out for to show us when the end will come. Instead Jesus speaks of signs and connects them with the destruction of Jerusalem, saying,

    "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know her desolation is near. Then let those in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those in the city get out, and let those in the country stay out of the city. For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers. For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

    That happened already. All of it. It happened almost 2000 years ago when the Roman armies, led by Titus, encompassed the city of Jerusalem and laid siege to the city. Even at the same time the Zealots who had captured the city had already slaughtered many, as Josephus--a witness and contemporary to the events--tells us:

    "Certain of these robbers went up to the city, as if they were going to worship God, while they had daggers under their garments; and, by thus mingling themselves among the multitude, they slew Jonathan [the high priest]; and as this murder was never avenged, the robbers went up with the greatest security at the festivals after this time; and having weapons concealed in like manner as before, and mingling themselves among the multitude, they slew certain of their own enemies, and were subservient to other men for money; and slew others not only in remote parts of the city, but in the Temple itself also; for they had the boldness to murder men there, without thinking of the impiety of which they were guilty.

    And this seems to me to have been the reason why God, out of his hatred to these men's wickedness, rejected our city; and as for the Temple, he no longer esteemed it sufficiently pure for him to inhabit therein, but brought the Romans upon us, and threw a fire upon the city to purge it; and brought upon us, our wives, and children, slavery - as desirous to make us wiser by our calamities.
    " - Antiquities 20.8.5 164-166

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  14. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    to all you number seekers why do you not understand the Bible as it says


    Revelation 13:18
    Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    Not the internet or any other man made invention
     
  15. suhail380

    suhail380 Senior Analyst

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    ViaCrucis wrote:


    "In fact, when Jesus does talk about the end He's quite clear--there are no signs."


    It means that Bible is silent about the Signs of End-times. (Am I correct to understand your statement)?

    In Islam, we have been given many signs, leading to Doomsday (the end of the entire Universe).

    Through this thread,I just want to share Islamic point of view on the end-times, with peoples of other world religions. I have no intention to DEBATE with anyone.
    ..
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  16. suhail380

    suhail380 Senior Analyst

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    Original Happy Camper wrote:

    Revelation 13:18
    Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


    Could you explain who could be this man? Did Jesus say in Gospel that 666 is the Name Number of Anti-Christ? Please share your knowledge. Thanks.
    ..
     
  17. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    No, I mean that Jesus says there are no signs of the "end times".

    The idea of "the end times" with great big signs happening is a view that I do not believe can be supported from the Bible.

    Many, of course, do interpret many parts of the Bible that there will be certain major signs, but I think a critical examination and analysis of the texts doesn't allow that. Some, for example, point to the Prophet Joel who speaks of the sun becoming dark and the moon turning to blood in the last days; but in the New Testament St. Peter specifically quotes that passage in reference to the events of Pentecost, with the outpouring of the Spirit. The language of the sun darkening and the moon turning to blood is apocalyptic language indicating something big happening--but as having been fulfilled in the reality of the birthing of the Church in the "last days"--the "last days" not being some "end times" but referring to the time since the coming of Jesus, as the author of Hebrews says, "God has in the past spoken to our fathers in many diverse ways, but in these last days has spoken to us by His Son". These have been the "last days" for nearly two thousand years now, if the writings of the New Testament are to be believed.

    Some point to a future coming of Antichrist, though the only mention of antichrist in the New Testament shows up in the Johanine epistles, which says, "You have heard Antichrist is coming, but even now many antichrists have come" and identifies antichrist as a kind of spirit (probably not in a literal sense there) and the heretical denial of the Incarnation, "Whoever denies that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is antichrist", by this John refers to the proto-Gnostic Docetist heretics who said that Jesus was an incorporeal ghost or apparition, not a flesh-and-blood human being. Antichrist, meaning "against Christ" is used in other Christian writings to simply mean that which is in opposition to Christ, St. Augustine suggests that Christians would do better to concern themselves with not being themselves antichrists rather than speculating wildly on the identity of "the Antichrist".

    Will there be a distinct, future figure of "the Antichrist"? I don't think the New Testament provides sufficient information to know one way or the other, though it has been a common opinion throughout history. But identification of such a figure has, as previously mentioned, been wildly speculative, virtually every historical person of any major significance, or even many of not major significance, have been identified as the grand bad guy of Christianity. At the end of the day it's simply not important to me, because Christian teaching is not focused on grand cataclysmic badness happening in "the end times" but in the hope of God's renewal of all things as He heals and rescues the world through His Son, Jesus Christ.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  18. suhail380

    suhail380 Senior Analyst

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    FOLLOWING TEXT FROM THE HOLY KORAN IS BEING GIVEN FOR AWARENESS PURPOSE. HOWEVER, SENSITIVE READERS ARE ADVISED, NOT TO READ IT.

    JESUS IN ISLAM

    Al-Koran (Chapter No: Verse No)

    003.045

    Behold! The angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;

    002.087

    We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you (Children of Israel) a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

    005.046

    And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.

    005.110

    Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favor to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

    003.055

    Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all (Christians) return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

    043.061

    And (second coming of Jesus) shall be a Sign of the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.


    ................................................................................
    .
     
  19. dcalling

    dcalling Senior Member

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    I am pretty sure that is not the case, I think you mistaken that with what Paul said about marriage in 1 Cor 7, which has nothing to do with the end days.

    For the second question, I hear my pastor said the Kindom of God is already here, if you can love God and love your neighbor as yourself, i.e. if you can do such things, then earth is heaven.
     
  20. dcalling

    dcalling Senior Member

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    From multiple Muslim sites, they claim the final battle is in Istanbul (Constantinople), where Mahdi will defeat a Christian army (some other source take about a huge Jewish army will come out and be defeated by Jesus, and that is where the trees/rocks will unhide Jews). Then it is peace before Mog comes.
     
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