Ellen White vs. the Bible--A Test Case--Married Sexual Practice

[tall73]

The NIV has it as: "Now for the matters you wrote about: it is good for a man not to marry" (1 Cor. 7:1).

The KJV has it as: "it is good for a man not to touch a woman."

I think the NIV provides a better translation here, because the subject matter mostly has to do with marriage.

As for the KJV, the Greek word for "touch" is, "haptomai," which could mean "to attach oneself to." The Bible teaches elsewhere concerning marriage, that a man and a woman become "one flesh" (Gen. 2:24).

Therefore, the question Paul is answering has to do with whether a man should marry or not.

Perhaps there were young men within the church who looked up to Paul, and felt that they needed to follow his example of not marrying in order to live a holy life (this could explain why Paul said what he said in verse 7). But these may have been very strongly tempted to engage in sex outside of marriage, and believed that it was an impossibility to live a single life like Paul without engaging in sexual immorality.

It could be that they thought they were facing a two-edged sword, in that they may have felt that marrying would put them outside of God's will, and not marrying would likely result in them giving in to their passions by engaging in sexual immorality, thereby putting them under the condemnation of God.

Paul informed them that it would be best not to marry; but he also made it clear that not everyone is able to live such a life. Thus, he encouraged those who could remain single to remain as they were, while encouraging those who couldn't live like that to marry, in order to avoid sexual immorality. This likely eased the minds of those who lacked self-control in this area, because they were not sure that it was God's will for them to marry or to remain single.

I do think that the overall discussion is tied to marriage, because he does contrast his situation with marriage.

However, he also ties not marrying to no sex, and marrying to sex with your spouse. So the two are related in the passage.

The situation seems to be that not everyone can do what Paul does, it is a gift. But if you do get married, you should be having regular sex and not withholding.

 

[cesty]

However, he also ties not marrying to no sex, and marrying to sex with your spouse. So the two are related in the passage.

I agree. However, I believe the primary focus of the passage has to do with whether a man should marry or not, and why it would be good to marry or to remain single.

Concerning those who were single, it's likely that there were men in the church who wanted to live a holy life, but were troubled by the idea of having to remain single like Paul, because they lacked self-control in matters concerning their desire to engage in sexual activity.

Concerning those who were married, it could be possible that some may have felt that by abstaining from sex for a time, they would reap some kind of spiritual benefit. However, some might have taken this to an extreme, thereby denying their spouse from sex. Obviously, this would result in creating conflict within the marriage. Those concerned about it, may have wanted an answer from Paul to settle the matter.

Paul's response was such that he made it clear that moderation is good, but abstinence is bad, because abstinence could lead a person into sin, as they would be tempted to seek that sexual need elsewhere (from an outside source).

What I'm trying to see here is how Ellen White's statements were in conflict with this. For she didn't say that married people shouldn't have sex, but that they should not do it in excess. I don't see Paul disagreeing with the idea that sex should be done in moderation; nor do I think it is a bad thing.

Another thing to think about is who was Ellen White talking to when she spoke of possible dangers that could occurr as a result of having too much sex? Was she speaking to younger people or older people? Age does make a difference here.

 

[Lysimachus]

Still see no contradiction!

Sorry!!!

 

[Lysimachus]

I indeed thought about it. The first quote warns against sex outside of its bounds, which all should agree is wrong.

However, the White quotes I raised were not about this problem, but dealt with the marriage relation.

The second talks of “sinful excess”.

And as to "sinful excess", where does the Bible say frequent sex in marriage is sinful? That is what you have utterly failed to demonstrate.

It doesn't have to say it is sinful. But James 4:17 does reveal that when we go against what we know to be good, it becomes sin to us. Paul and Peter also emphasized "temperance" (Gal 5:23; 1 Peter 1:6). This envelops everything. Ellen White is giving us "additional" details not in the Bible, and that is exactly what a prophet is for. To provide and zero in on additional details.

The fact that Paul says that there should be a time that we "refrain for a time", is in harmony with Sister White:

"Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency." (1 Cor 7:5)

Paul seems to indicate here that it is good to take breaks.

The Bible DOES say that if you withhold from one another you LACK self control in I Cor. 7.

You need to make your biblical case for too much sex being evil in marriage.


First and foremost, does the Bible say what you just said?

I don't see where the Bible says what you said.

You have Ellen’s advice wrong here. She does not at all counsel 3 or 4 times a week.

Her whole view centers around her idea of vital force. She sees us giving account of our vital force, and that it is depleted through “indulgence”.

She does not say how long. But 3-4 times a week is just a sensible guess based on judgment.

Very few feel it to be a religious duty to govern their passions. They have united themselves in marriage to the object of their choice, and therefore reason that marriage sanctifies the indulgence of the baser passions. Even men and women professing godliness give loose rein to their lustful passions, and have no thought that God holds them accountable for the expenditure of vital energy, which weakens their hold on life and enervates the entire system. (Testimonies, Volume 4, p. 472)

She feels that sex depletes energy that God gives them.

The point is that there are those who do not marry on the basis of true love, but lust. And they marry simply to gratify their sexual passions rather than based on true love. But, assuming 2 people do love eachother, and it is a God-ordained marriage, it is better to marry than the two to burn. This is excellent counsel from Sister White. There are husbands and wives who over-indulge in sexual intercourse and deplete the vital forces. This is no different than gluttony with eating good food.

Can you demonstrate that men and women suffer from depletion of vital force through sex? Can you demonstrate that the Bible warns against this thing we are to be accountable for?

Another quote that talks about how she feels this leads to premature death, and loss of health.

Science tells us how the world is millions of years old, and cannot prove the earth was created. Scientists also said it could not rain, but they were wrong.

A number of scientific studies today I believe have an agenda to corrupt humanity, and so they will produce reports stating that you can have sex as much as you want and there are no consequences to health.

I believe what Sister White says by faith.

A miserable existence is entailed upon so large a class that death to them would be preferable to life; and many do die prematurely, their lives being sacrificed in the inglorious work of excessive indulgence of the animal passions. Because they are married, they think they commit no sin. {SA 171.1}

Can you demonstrate that people die prematurely due to too much sex? And where does the Bible warn of this?

But would you be able to prove it? There are millions of people that die all the time, and there is no way to prove exactly why they got sick and died. There is no way to always prove exactly why they died of heart-failure. There is no possible way to prove this, but Ellen White is showing one of many causes here. She is not talking against sex, but "excessive indulgence". The quotes you site only prove my point.

Ellen White was proven right on many points, but science is still ongoing, and changing, and still has a way to go to catch up (if ever). Simply because some current "scientific research" may disagree with Sister White is a lame, ridiculous, unacceptable excuse to disqualify her as a prophet.

Let the Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband. Many have no strength at all to waste in this direction.

While she councils against excess in some places, here she speaks of many who have "no strength at all" to "waste" in this direction. So here she suggests they should not waste ANY vital force, because they have already wasted too much. She is certainly not endorsing 3 or 4 times a week here, but in some cases none.

Excellent counsel! She simply means do not waste necessary strength that we might need for other work--as in excess. She's not saying we can't expend affordable strength to what God has allowed.

That is a far cry from Proverbs:

Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
Pro 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

I disagree. 24/7 is not being spoken of here. It's speaking in terms of a mutual life-time bond. Once your wife is yours, she is always available to you. But God expects us to use temperance, as in every good thing.

Why does the Bible say they are to be satisfied and rejoice, and Ellen White says many have no strength to "waste" this direction..

Because you are misunderstanding her.

There are two very different underlying views of sex here. And her council that some have NO strength is certainly not encouraging 3 or 4 times per week.

On the surface it may appear that way, but I don't believe this is a correct assessment. You can read this into it, but I don't think it's accurate.

But beyond that we have other evidence of what she and her husband thought on the subject. James published Solemn Appeal Relative to Solitary Vice, and the Abuses and Excesses of the Marriage Relation.

This book included Ellen White’s commentary on these issues, but also put supporting informant from health reformers that the White’s agreed with. Here we see more specific council as to frequency. Here is one such statement from the work:


But for light-built, fine-skinned, fine-haired, spare-built, sharp-featured, light-eyed persons, of either sex, to indulge, even in wedlock, as often as the moon quarters is gradual but effectual destruction of both soul and body; because they already work off vitality faster than their feeble vital apparatus manufactures it. This excess of expenditure over supply occasions their sharpness. A surplus would render them fleshy. Now to add the most powerful drain of all to their already sparse supply, must sooner or later, according to their vigor of constitution, render them bankrupts of life.

But Ellen White did not write this, and where is there proof that she endorsed this?

Here again we see this reference to the depletion of vital force. Here we are told to indulge as often as the moon quarters is destruction of soul and body. That is not three or four times a week.

Excess of anything depletes the vital forces. Even excess of staying up late. It wears you out and can exhaust. There are numerous people who live a sexually promiscuous life, and they are very unhealthy people.

Another quote from the same work:

Whoever indulges often, and weekly is often, in wedlock or out of it, will experience an unnatural heat, tension, tenderness, irritation, swelling, perhaps soreness, in these organs, of course resulting from their inflammation.

Can you demonstrate harmful inflammation from weekly intercourse in marriage? Does the Bible warn against such?

Yet this is advice that the Whites placed along-side Ellen’s advice on “marital excess”.

So your view of 3-4 times a week rather than every night sex also fails to deal with the real view they held.

They thought every “indulgence” “wasted” energy that God had given for other things, and you were to be held accountable for your expenditures.

Once again, Ellen White did not write what you quote, and there is no proof that she "endorsed" it.

 

[Lysimachus]

I agree. However, I believe the primary focus of the passage has to do with whether a man should marry or not, and why it would be good to marry or to remain single.

Concerning those who were single, it's likely that there were men in the church who wanted to live a holy life, but were troubled by the idea of having to remain single like Paul, because they lacked self-control in matters concerning their desire to engage in sexual activity.

Concerning those who were married, it could be possible that some may have felt that by abstaining from sex for a time, they would reap some kind of spiritual benefit. However, some might have taken this to an extreme, thereby denying their spouse from sex. Obviously, this would result in creating conflict within the marriage. Those concerned about it, may have wanted an answer from Paul to settle the matter.

Paul's response was such that he made it clear that moderation is good, but abstinence is bad, because abstinence could lead a person into sin, as they would be tempted to seek that sexual need elsewhere (from an outside source).

What I'm trying to see here is how Ellen White's statements were in conflict with this. For she didn't say that married people shouldn't have sex, but that they should not do it in excess. I don't see Paul disagreeing with the idea that sex should be done in moderation; nor do I think it is a bad thing.

Another thing to think about is who was Ellen White talking to when she spoke of possible dangers that could occurr as a result of having too much sex? Was she speaking to younger people or older people? Age does make a difference here.

Well said Cesty, I agree with your assessment.

 

[Lysimachus]

Ellen White had 4 children! lol

"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible." (1 Cor 9:24, 25)

"ALL THINGS" includes sexual intercourse between man and wife.

Titus 1:8 - "But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate."

Titus 2:2 - "That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience."

Gal 5:23 - "Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

2 Peter 1:5 - "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness."

While the prophets, such as Paul, provided a basic outline concerning things, the Lord gave Ellen White deep insight into the deep meaning of many of these passages, and her counsels are directly from the Lord.

Temperance in all things--and even husband's and wives who give way to sexual excess (meaning, overdoing it) are violating this principle, just like the individual who eats good food violates this principle by over-eating--which is called "gluttony".

 

[tall73]

I agree. However, I believe the primary focus of the passage has to do with whether a man should marry or not, and why it would be good to marry or to remain single.

Concerning those who were single, it's likely that there were men in the church who wanted to live a holy life, but were troubled by the idea of having to remain single like Paul, because they lacked self-control in matters concerning their desire to engage in sexual activity.

So far I think we are largely agreed.

Concerning those who were married, it could be possible that some may have felt that by abstaining from sex for a time, they would reap some kind of spiritual benefit. However, some might have taken this to an extreme, thereby denying their spouse from sex. Obviously, this would result in creating conflict within the marriage. Those concerned about it, may have wanted an answer from Paul to settle the matter.



Paul's response was such that he made it clear that moderation is good, but abstinence is bad, because abstinence could lead a person into sin, as they would be tempted to seek that sexual need elsewhere (from an outside source).

We are pretty close to agreement. Some notes however:

A. Paul never states in the text that moderation is good. He just says that you should not withhold, etc. and that if you do withhold it should be for a LIMITED time, by agreement for prayer.

So we would agree that he says abstinence would be bad as it could lead to temptation.

However, he says more than just that. He indicates that even times when they agree to stop so they may dedicate themselves to prayer this should be short. In other words, Paul sees this as regular activity with only a limited time exception to the rule.

1Co 7:4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
1Co 7:5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.


The Whites on the other hand put out a book on the subject that included Ellen White's writings and also included sources that indicated sex as much as once per week would destroy health and morality. It indicated that sex more often that the moon quarters is problematic.

You don't see that as different than what Paul said? Paul says the exception is for prayer and even then it should be short.

She indicated that there were some Godly people who were going to hell because they had sex too much. Is that at all like what Paul said?


I don't think so.


The view of Paul is that sex is something that each part of the couple is entitled to from the other.

Ellen Whites view is that it is indulgence, animal and base, and that wives should divert their husband's mind from it.

Those are not the same.

 

[tall73]

What I'm trying to see here is how Ellen White's statements were in conflict with this. For she didn't say that married people shouldn't have sex...

Are you sure about that?

Let the Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband. Many have no strength at all to waste in this direction.

For some she did indeed think they should not have sex.

 

[tall73]

I agree. However, I believe the primary focus of the passage has to do with whether a man should marry or not, and why it would be good to marry or to remain single.

Concerning those who were single, it's likely that there were men in the church who wanted to live a holy life, but were troubled by the idea of having to remain single like Paul, because they lacked self-control in matters concerning their desire to engage in sexual activity.

Concerning those who were married, it could be possible that some may have felt that by abstaining from sex for a time, they would reap some kind of spiritual benefit. However, some might have taken this to an extreme, thereby denying their spouse from sex. Obviously, this would result in creating conflict within the marriage. Those concerned about it, may have wanted an answer from Paul to settle the matter.

Paul's response was such that he made it clear that moderation is good, but abstinence is bad, because abstinence could lead a person into sin, as they would be tempted to seek that sexual need elsewhere (from an outside source).

What I'm trying to see here is how Ellen White's statements were in conflict with this. For she didn't say that married people shouldn't have sex, but that they should not do it in excess. I don't see Paul disagreeing with the idea that sex should be done in moderation; nor do I think it is a bad thing.

Another thing to think about is who was Ellen White talking to when she spoke of possible dangers that could occurr as a result of having too much sex? Was she speaking to younger people or older people? Age does make a difference here.

You can go through and pinpoint the ages if you like.

She seems to indicate several audiences, some where the man imposes his will on the wife, some where both partners want frequent sex, even those important in the work who she says are going to hell because of it.

Let God-fearing men and women awake to their duty. Many professing Christianity are suffering with paralysis of nerve and brain because of their intemperance in this direction. Rottennessis in the bones and marrow of many who are regarded as good men, who pray and weep, and who stand in high places, but whose polluted carcasses will never pass the portals of the heavenly city. Oh! that I could make all understand their obligations to God to preserve the mental and physical organism in the best condition to render perfect service to God. {SA 177.1}

Now do you really think this is a biblical view of sex? That Godly people who are doing God's work will not enter the city because they had sex too much and they didn't preserve their mental and physical organism?

Does the Bible anywhere even come close to saying anything like that?

Since they were writing to Paul for advice on sex, marriage and perhaps sexual frequency, why wouldn't he also warn them that some could go to hell if they had too much sex with their spouse?

 

[tall73]

It doesn't have to say it is sinful. But James 4:17 does reveal that when we go against what we know to be good, it becomes sin to us. Paul and Peter also emphasized "temperance" (Gal 5:23; 1 Peter 1:6). This envelops everything. Ellen White is giving us "additional" details not in the Bible, and that is exactly what a prophet is for. To provide and zero in on additional details.

The fact that Paul says that there should be a time that we "refrain for a time", is in harmony with Sister White:


"Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency." (1 Cor 7:5)

Paul seems to indicate here that it is good to take breaks.

I don't even think you put the right text in the Peter case. And the other certainly gives no indication that it is referring to this subject.

The fact that you can find no Biblical statement to back up Ellen's claims that too much sex with your spouse sends you to hell, is sinful, destroys health, etc. is telling.

You want Bible evidence in all these threads for the positions of others.

But no where is this even hinted in the Bible.

As to refraining for a time it was the exception to the stated rule. If you don't know the difference between and exception and the rule then you need to review it.

The part about tempting and self control was in direct relation to coming together again.


and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

She does not say how long. But 3-4 times a week is just a sensible guess based on judgment.

A sensible guess that all the sources the Whites included disagree with.


And some she said should not "waste" any energy on sex, which is directly against Paul's advice.

 

[tall73]

The point is that there are those who do not marry on the basis of true love, but lust. And they marry simply to gratify their sexual passions rather than based on true love. But, assuming 2 people do love eachother, and it is a God-ordained marriage, it is better to marry than the two to burn. This is excellent counsel from Sister White. There are husbands and wives who over-indulge in sexual intercourse and deplete the vital forces. This is no different than gluttony with eating good food.

You still have shown nothing at all in the Bible that too much sex between married couples is a sin.

You haven't shown evidence of depletion of Vital force.

You haven't shown any biblical evidence or health evidence of it. Why is it you don't show that?


Now if people were going to hell for a couple thousand years because God didn't mention this before, don't you find that odd?

The advice of Paul is don't withhold. The advice of Ellen is you better be careful you don't have too much sex and go to hell.

Hardly the same.

 

[tall73]

Science tells us how the world is millions of years old, and cannot prove the earth was created. Scientists also said it could not rain, but they were wrong.

A number of scientific studies today I believe have an agenda to corrupt humanity, and so they will produce reports stating that you can have sex as much as you want and there are no consequences to health.

I believe what Sister White says by faith.

When she says some couples should not waste energy on sex, and Paul says they should not withhold, that goes beyond scientific issues. That is her saying something different than the Bible.

But you have shown no evidence from science, or from the Bible to back your position.

Now you can say that science doesn't always get it right. Very true. But then you are still left with zero evidence for your view from science or the Bible.

 

[tall73]

But would you be able to prove it? There are millions of people that die all the time, and there is no way to prove exactly why they got sick and died. There is no way to always prove exactly why they died of heart-failure. There is no possible way to prove this, but Ellen White is showing one of many causes here. She is not talking against sex, but "excessive indulgence". The quotes you site only prove my point.


Ellen White was proven right on many points, but science is still ongoing, and changing, and still has a way to go to catch up (if ever). Simply because some current "scientific research" may disagree with Sister White is a lame, ridiculous, unacceptable excuse to disqualify her as a prophet.

What we see is the opposite. Folks live longer with more sex.


So do you apply this same notion to other prophets? If someone claims it you have to believe it because everyone else could be wrong and them right?

Or is it just this prophet you do that with?

Now let's look at the language again, EXCESSIVE indulgence.

That would mean there is non-excessive "indulgence". She thinks of sex with one's spouse as indulgence to start with, and that is not a biblical view.

The Bible doesn't see sex as indulgence. It is something God designed, not an evil act to be limited.

 

[tall73]

Let the Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband. Many have no strength at all to waste in this direction.
Your response:

Excellent counsel! She simply means do not waste necessary strength that we might need for other work--as in excess. She's not saying we can't expend affordable strength to what God has allowed.

That is simple twisting right there.

She says some have NO STRENGTH at all to waste IN THIS DIRECTION.

Her language is pretty plain.

If I said, son you have no time at all to waste on video games, what would I be saying?

Son, play just some video games?
Son, be temperate in video games?

No, I would be indicting my son should not be playing video games.


She is saying they have no energy at all for sex. You want it to say something else, but that doesn't change it.

She is directly advising against what Paul said here.

 

[tall73]

I disagree. 24/7 is not being spoken of here. It's speaking in terms of a mutual life-time bond. Once your wife is yours, she is always available to you. But God expects us to use temperance, as in every good thing.

It is talking about a positive view of married sex, and warning against outside sex.

Never once does it, or other passages warn against sex with your spouse and call it

animal
base
waste of vital force
indulgence
or say that if you do it too much you will never darken the door of heaven. Ellen White says all those things.

The issue is not 24/7. The issue is Ellen White indicates that every time you go to have sex you have to make a decision that you are accountable to God for every drop of "vital force" and that some have none to use for this.

Therefore if you "indulge" you better watch out.

This is not the same view of sex as seen in I Cor or Proverbs.

 

[tall73]

But Ellen White did not write this, and where is there proof that she endorsed this?

In the thread in the SDA section you argued against the idea that Ellen White didn't have input in the publishing of her writings.

Are you saying the when her husband put out a book with these very quotes, with her writings in it, that she didn't agree with what they were saying?

The quotes use the same language about sex that she does. They warn about marital excess the same as she does. And her husband, in spreading her views puts her statements right next to them.

But you don't think she agrees with them?

She knows James is putting all this material together with her material. If it was promoting wrong views of her work, how would she not step in?

It is up to you to show she didn't agree with it. She says several times that we have to be accountable for our vital force, and warns against martial excess. Why would James pick texts that go against her views to illustrate her views?

Even you know that what they were advocating is not sound. You want 3-4 times per week. But that was simply not the view the Whites were putting out there.

It seems like you are the one who doesn't want to accept her view, so you are trying to change it to make it more acceptable.

 

[tall73]

Excess of anything depletes the vital forces. Even excess of staying up late. It wears you out and can exhaust. There are numerous people who live a sexually promiscuous life, and they are very unhealthy people.

Stop right there. Stop comparing people who have sex with their spouse to promiscuous people.

The two are not the same.

Again, you have not shown that frequent sex causes these issues.

But I have shown that the book put out by the Whites, with her material in it, puts sources that say that once per week destroys health, and as often as the moon quarters is getting questionable.

Now you have no proof for your view. And you discount the views put out by themselves. Are you sure you are not just trying to make it fit?

 

[tall73]

Ellen White had 4 children! lol

"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible." (1 Cor 9:24, 25)


"ALL THINGS" includes sexual intercourse between man and wife.

First off by that logic "all things" could include too much worship of God, too much reading Ellen White, etc.

The temperate in all things is relative to things that would hold them back from their race they are running.

You have not shown that married sex does this.



Now, I agree by the way that we should be temperate in any thing that could lead to problems. And as I mentioned to Cesty earlier, a couple should come to agreement so that one is not feeling compelled, etc.

However, that is quite different than Ellen's view that sex is indulgence, animal, base, and you can go to hell for too much of it.

And it is quite different that the material put out by the Whites which states that sex should not be more often that the moon quarters.


Also, in I Corinthians the example he gave of lack of self-control, was taking too long a break from sex, so as to encourage temptation.


Rule:
1Co 7:5 Do not deprive one another

Exception:
, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer;

Re-statement of rule:
but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.


They were not to have long periods where they did not have sex. I was having long periods without sex that led to temptation.

But it was this very thing that the material put out by the Whites suggested.


Now, despite your contentions, I have not suggested 24/7.

I have not suggested sex every waking moment, or anything of the sort.

I have shown that Ellen White viewed sex as indulgence, animal, base, and that some have no strength at all to waste on sex.

That is an unbiblical view.

And the Whites put out a whole volume on the subject with Ellen White's comments about marital excess, along with what they believed were reformers in the field.

This indicates that they held the view of far less sex being good than even you allow for.

So when they put out a book indicating that people who have sex once a week are destroying their health, that is against Paul's statements, plain and simple.

 

[tall73]

Ellen White had 4 children! lol

She sure did!

But that still fits within the advice that was published by the Whites next to her writing, about the moon quartering.

 

[tall73]

Ellen White had 4 children! lol

"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible." (1 Cor 9:24, 25)

"ALL THINGS" includes sexual intercourse between man and wife.

Titus 1:8 - "But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate."

Titus 2:2 - "That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience."

Gal 5:23 - "Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

2 Peter 1:5 - "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness."

Temperence is good, as I explained above.

But sex as often as the moon quarters goes beyond temperance, as even you seem to acknowledge. And that is the view the Whites put out there, along with the idea that some have no strength for it, and that sex is animal, base, indulgence etc.

It goes against the Advice of Paul that you not withhold.

While the prophets, such as Paul, provided a basic outline concerning things, the Lord gave Ellen White deep insight into the deep meaning of many of these passages, and her counsels are directly from the Lord.

Yes, we all know that you will accept whatever her view of the Bible is, essentially putting her view over the Bible itself.

The problem is her advice doesn't enlarge on the Bible. The Bible doesn't call sex with your spouse animal, base, indulgence, and doesn't warn that too much sex with your spouse will keep you out of heaven.

It doesn't suggest that Christian wives divert the attention of their husband from sex. Rather it says the body of each belongs to the other.

Nor does the Bible indicate that sex be no more than as often as the moon quarters.

Wouldn't that be important for folks to know in that day too if it were true? But it is not there.

Temperance in all things--and even husband's and wives who give way to sexual excess (meaning, overdoing it) are violating this principle, just like the individual who eats good food violates this principle by over-eating--which is called "gluttony".

I think we can all see cases of overdoing food all around us.

But we do not see a similar epidemic of women with worn out genitals as she talks about.


Now if you believe her advice regarding temperance why don't you endorse the advice the White's put out? Do you think they put it out there so that it would NOT be followed?

Why would they put those views next to Ellen White's words in a book meant to be distributed if they did not believe it?

If every act of "indulgence" drains vital force, how can you endorse even 3-4 times per week?