Ellen White vs. the Bible--A Test Case--Married Sexual Practice

[tall73]

You'll have to point me to the page where you quote what she says the average should be. I bailed out of this thread early in its inception so I probably missed it.

So go and read the thread.

Hardly much to ask.

 

[tall73]

How do you know what people were and weren't doing lol. Nothing new under the sun. My point is that you can do everything, even sex with your wife, to excess. You say don't deny your husband cause the bible says so. I asked would the wife be sinning if her husband wanted it 3x a day and she said no.

If you weren't trying to see something wrong with this, then you'd be able to grasp the principle in her words the way I have. It's about over indulgence. Her terminology worked for her, in her day, to her peers. She said it the way she saw fit to convey a message that needed to be heard.

Stryder, you haven't even read the thread to see what she and James said.

How would you know?

 

[tall73]

Not so. What I'm doing is simply based on the fact that prophets are human beings they are not little gods, and because of that fact, it doesn't mean that everything that they said verbally or put into writings over the span of their earthly lives is 100% inspired by God. Commonsense! The test that you are proposing is would disqualify the bible prophets in the OT and NT. And yet, you want to apply that standard to EGW? What gives? Do you not believe, that a prophet could verbalize or write something that may simply be that prophet's opinion at the time, and not necessarily be inspired by God, but simply based on their view of the subject in question?

Truthwave, you acts as though I were the one applying the standard to Ellen White.

She wrote this, not me:

I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne," is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books.{RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1}


Now I will let you work out your own method however. I am perfectly fine with you rejecting any part of Ellen White's wrong advice you wish to, and I am glad you understand this is wrong.

 

[Sophia7]

Your view of EGW's writings disagrees with her own view of her writings:

The statement which you quote from "Testimony," No. 31, that "in these letters which I wrote, in the Testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne," is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ. Are not the positions taken in my writings in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ? If not, point it out to me. {RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1}​

The truly inspired writings were true and have stood the test of time. How can you say that the Desire of Ages or Steps to Christ are not books inspired by the Holy Spirit, and bear the trademark of the divine? EGW was shown those things in visions many times when she didn't know how to describe some points in the great controversy between Christ and Satan. Look at the BIG picture.

Are you saying that the statement from her article that I quoted above was not inspired but just her opinion?

 

[Stryder06]

let every man consider for a moment whether he has any other than purely selfish arguments to produce against it.


Interestingly enough, it would seem as if this portion of the statements she made, wasn't good enough to be bolded.

 

[Stryder06]

So go and read the thread.

Hardly much to ask.

Read through it, most of it, read through the quotes your provided. Saw your statement that 12x a year was from Kellogg. Saw a quote from someone, believe it was James, who talked about swelling and inflammation, etc.

Did I miss something, or do you just not feel like reviewing your own material to point out where she said how often you should do it?

 

[tall73]

let every man consider for a moment whether he has any other than purely selfish arguments to produce against it.


Interestingly enough, it would seem as if this portion of the statements she made, wasn't good enough to be bolded.

So you agree with Kellogg's once per month and want to highlight it?

 

[tall73]

Read through it, most of it, read through the quotes your provided. Saw your statement that 12x a year was from Kellogg. Saw a quote from someone, believe it was James, who talked about swelling and inflammation, etc.

Did I miss something, or do you just not feel like reviewing your own material to point out where she said how often you should do it?

a. You missed that James and Ellen put out a book with her writings and other "authorities" of the day. In that book it talks about as often as the moon quarters being deadly. Why would they put that if they did not agree with it?

b. You missed that Ellen White says that "very few" control their passions. Even today surveys tell us that a very low percentage of people have sex even once per day. Yet you want us to believe all but a few people in the 1800's were having sex multiple times per day?

c. You missed that Ellen White references the brute creation as a guide, just as Kellogg does, and that Kellogg indicates this is the basis for the once per month frequency.

d. You missed that Ellen White said some have no strength at all to "waste" in this direction.

e. You missed that Ellen White says you will give an account for every expenditure, and calls sex itself "indulgence".



Now Stryder, where is your evidence that she meant three times per day?

Please cite your references.

And where do you see evidence that frequent sex destroys morals and health?

 

[Stryder06]

So you agree with Kellogg's once per month and want to highlight it?

Not at all. I think the part I listed bears some consideration however in regards to what I said initially; that all things should be done with moderation.

 

[Stryder06]

a. You missed that James and Ellen put out a book with her writings and other "authorities" of the day. In that book it talks about as often as the moon quarters being deadly. Why would they put that if they did not agree with it?

b. You missed that Ellen White says that "very few" control their passions. Even today surveys tell us that a very low percentage of people have sex even once per day. Yet you want us to believe all but a few people in the 1800's were having sex multiple times per day?

c. You missed that Ellen White references the brute creation as a guide, just as Kellogg does, and that Kellogg indicates this is the basis for the once per month frequency.

d. You missed that Ellen White said some have no strength at all to "waste" in this direction.

e. You missed that Ellen White says you will give an account for every expenditure, and calls sex itself "indulgence".



Now Stryder, where is your evidence that she meant three times per day?

Please cite your references.

And where do you see evidence that frequent sex destroys morals and health?

I was just asking a question as to whether or not a wife who denied her husband sex 3x a day would be sinning. But if that's too outlandish for you, how about sex 1x a day. Would it be a sin for her to say no to that request?

And most of what you said I "missed" I didn't miss. I was looking for a statement from Sr White in regards to how many times one should or shouldn't have sex while married.

 

[tall73]

I was just asking a question as to whether or not a wife who denied her husband sex 3x a day would be sinning. But if that's too outlandish for you, how about sex 1x a day. Would it be a sin for her to say no to that request?

And most of what you said I "missed" I didn't miss. I was looking for a statement from Sr White in regards to how many times one should or shouldn't have sex while married.

she made a statement that some should not waste any...so never.

And she spoke of the animals as Kellogg did, which would relate to once a month.

And James and her published the work that spoke of as often as the moon quarters.

If you are speaking of hypotheticals that Ellen White was not speaking of then you are not addressing the point of this thread.

 

[tall73]

Not at all. I think the part I listed bears some consideration however in regards to what I said initially; that all things should be done with moderation.

Their view of moderation is once a month.

So if you are not backing them then the quote doesn't help you.

 

[Stryder06]

she made a statement that some should not waste any...so never.

You do realize that there are some people who aren't healthy enough to have sex. That's what I got from most of her statements to the "some".

And she spoke of the animals as Kellogg did, which would relate to once a month.

And James and her published the work that spoke of as often as the moon quarters.

That's your assumption. I wasn't catching that. But of course that's because I'm brainwashed and blind, so I guess I wouldn't.

If you are speaking of hypotheticals that Ellen White was not speaking of then you are not addressing the point of this thread.

Tall, please. There is no "point" to this thread. People who think Ellen is false simply go out of their way to try to throw more wood on the fire. That's the only "point" of this thread.

 

[tall73]

You do realize that there are some people who aren't healthy enough to have sex. That's what I got from most of her statements to the "some".


That's your assumption. I wasn't catching that. But of course that's because I'm brainwashed and blind, so I guess I wouldn't.


Tall, please. There is no "point" to this thread. People who think Ellen is false simply go out of their way to try to throw more wood on the fire. That's the only "point" of this thread.

Just as Adventists who think other churches are false go to throw more wood on the fire?

Hm....

There is a point to this thread. It is seeing whether Ellen White is in line with the Bible.

Now, why did Ellen and James put out a book with views on frequency, with her words along side them, if they did not believe it?

 

[Stryder06]

Just as Adventists who think other churches are false go to throw more wood on the fire?

I'm sorry but how often do we start threads about that subject? It's one thing to answer a question when it's posed to you. It's another to go on a campaign the way you do.

There is a point to this thread. It is seeing whether Ellen White is in line with the Bible.

No there isn't. You think the wife should submit as often as her husband demands. Sr White advocated temperance.

Now, why did Ellen and James put out a book with views on frequency, with her words along side them, if they did not believe it?

I'd say ask her when you met her, but since she's going to hell I guess that won't be necessary. So why bother.

 

[Sophia7]

No there isn't. You think the wife should submit as often as her husband demands. Sr White advocated temperance.

No, he thinks that both the husband and the wife should agree and that they shouldn't refrain from having sex when they both want it for fear that it would be an indulgence of animal passions and marital excess to have sex more often than once or twice per month. EGW and her contemporaries advocated abstinence most of the time, not temperance, and EGW taught that the wife should distract her husband from thinking about sex and turn his mind to spiritual matters instead. That is not what the Bible teaches.

 

[from scratch]

I'm sorry but how often do we start threads about that subject? It's one thing to answer a question when it's posed to you. It's another to go on a campaign the way you do.



No there isn't. You think the wife should submit as often as her husband demands. Sr White advocated temperance.



I'd say ask her when you met her, but since she's going to hell I guess that won't be necessary. So why bother.

Campaign? Oh my!

I sure missed somebody saying she was going to hell. Would your please provide the post number?

 

[Sophia7]

Campaign? Oh my!

I sure missed somebody saying she was going to hell. Would your please provide the post number?

I was wondering about that, too.

 

[TruthWave7]

Are you saying that the statement from her article that I quoted above was not inspired but just her opinion?

I said in so many words to your husband, that not everything that EGW said verbally or put into writing came directly from God. That doesn't mean she never wrote anything that was inspired by the Spirit of God. Books like: Steps to Christ, The Desire of Ages, the Great Controversy were surely inspired by God. The OT and NT prophets of old in lives said verbally many things that were not inspired at times. But, that did not negate the things that were inspired. We can tell what is what, by simply prayerfully reading what they said or wrote. The books of the Bible were compiled in that fashion in that human beings over time determined was inspired and what was not. Hence the 66 books of the Bible. Who could say that Noah, who got drunk after the waters receded and he planted a vineyard and got drunk and naked by drinking the fermented wine? Who can say Abraham with all his faults was not inspired and saw a vision of Jesus in the future? Or of David who committed murder and adultery, but also wrote so many inspired Psalms? And Paul who no wrote and said many things in the life that were hateful and wrong, but also was shown visions of heaven and Jesus, and wrote many of the books of the NT. You hold EGW up to a standard that no even the Bible writers and prophets were held to!

 

[Sophia7]

You hold EGW up to a standard that no even the Bible writers and prophets were held to!

No, I hold her up to her own standard:

I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne. . . . It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. . . . {RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1}​