Elijah Has Come and With Him the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord!

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

While John was not Elijah, one of the two witnesses in Revelation 11 is likely to be Elijah.

True. It is appointed for man to die once. Eliyahu never died but was taken into the heavens alive. John was killed.

 

[Timtofly]

How can you say that the Day Jesus Returns, is a 'terrible day'?
The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath will happen when the Sixth Seal is opened. Which will be the next prophesied event we can expect, that will commence all the prophesied things to happen before Jesus Returns in His glory to reign for the next 1000 years.

Perhaps, then; you can explain why John never did signs like calling down fire from heaven, like Elijah did?
Did John do any reconciling, as the end times Elijah, as prophesied: will do?

We know very little of what John did. We know very little of what the twelve disciples of Jesus did. Even John had disciples. John did many things that generated a following enough that the leaders feared his popularity. I am sure they were glad when Herod finally put him in jail. We are just not told the whole story of John.

 

[TribulationSigns]

While John was not Elijah, one of the two witnesses in Revelation 11 is likely to be Elijah.

Of course, John the Baptist was not actually physically Elijah but Christ said he was...in spirit and power of Elias! Didn't you read the Scripture?

Luke 1:15-17 KJV
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
[16] And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
[17] And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Your carnal version of Elijah won't be one of Two Witnesses of Revelation 11. The Two Witnesses are not some two physical men you thought who were from the Old Testament you believe God will send from heaven to witnesses to poor Jews in the Middle East despite the preaching of the Gospel for the past 2,000 years. Rather they are symbolically God's children who received the power of the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel. Didn't you read the Scripture?

Revelation 11:3-4 KJV
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
[4] These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Acts 1:8 KJV
[8] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

After Pentecost, Christians are anointed with the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel unto the whole world, including the Jews! God sees them as His Two Witnesses because, first, they are His Witnesses. Second, the number two in the Scriptures means Truth. They are the witnesses of Truth! They have been preaching through the Church for almost 2,000 years now! God is not talking about two end-time phsyical men with supernatural power in the Middle East as you dream of.

And also that the prince who shall come has to be anointed by a known prophet to become the King of Israel/Messiah coming in his own name to be the Antichrist. i.e. the false prophet posing as Elijah will anoint him King of Israel/Messiah (but unapproved by God to be the king)

Not going to happen.

 

[TribulationSigns]

True. It is appointed for man to die once. Eliyahu never died but was taken into the heavens alive. John was killed.

Obviously, you were not reading well. Of course, Elijah did not physically die. He was taken up and has translated into a glorified body as he went up into heaven. No flesh and blood can enter heaven, right? No there is no way that Elijah will return to the body of this death again only to be physically killed in Jerusalem and lying died for 3 days?! This is a pipe dream and false interpretation of PRemillennialism/pretribulation doctrine.

 

[honey badger]

thanks

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Obviously, you were not reading well. Of course, Elijah did not physically die. He was taken up and has translated into a glorified body as he went up into heaven. No flesh and blood can enter heaven, right? No there is no way that Elijah will return to the body of this death again only to be physically killed in Jerusalem and lying died for 3 days?! This is a pipe dream and false interpretation of PRemillennialism/pretribulation doctrine.

I read it. BTW, I am not pre-mill/pre-trib, etc. I am Eastern Orthodox...
It is appointed for ALL to die once (Hebrews 9:27). It also says Eliyahu was translated. Same with Enokh (Hebrews 11:5). Genesis 5:24. Malakhi 4 implies that Eliyahu was still alive. Yeshua after He rose had a physical, but now immortal, body. That is the change. this in itself disproves your opinions...

 

[iamlamad]

I see no other way to interpret them than to conclude that Jesus was claiming His own coming was in fact the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD. How else can these verses be interpreted?

And if Jesus’ first coming was the Great and terrible Day of the LORD, what on earth are Christians waiting for with respect to His Second Coming? What more great and terrible day can there be than the day God Himself came in the flesh and allowed Himself to be hung on a cross? I find it hard to believe anything else could be done and be more aptly described as Great & Terrible…

How else can these verses be interpreted? My guess is, everyone on this thread will interpret these verses differently. Take your choice. Probably all of them will be closer to the truth then your theory.

*John the baptist only fulfilled part of the prophecies of Elijah.
*The Day of the Lord has NOT come. It is still future.
*Elijah will come sometime soon in the future. Not to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers,(John fulfilled that part) but this coming will be as one of the two witnesses.

 

[Scott Husted]

thanks

You can't hear what is not in you (it's the observation of God).

 

[Hawkins]

Malachi 4:5-6 (NIV2011)
“See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.
He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

John the Baptist to Jesus is equivalent to Elijah to God. Jesus will come with a reconciliation (first coming), OR ELSE a total destruction (second coming).


Matthew 24
19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!


Dreadful days are described in Matthew 24. It refers to the destruction of the Second Temple in Jesus' first coming. It will be a total destruction in His second coming.

Matthew 24:15-18 (NIV2011)
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—
then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house.
Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.


It is a two-fold prophecy, prophetically applies to both the first and second coming of Jesus. It's more on Jesus' second coming as in Matthew 24 the original question from the disciples are about Jesus' (second) coming and the end.

Matthew 24:3 (NIV2011)
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

 

[TribulationSigns]

Preaching in the spirit and power of Eliyahu does not make John actually Eliyahu himself...

HUH? Christ SAID this John was INDEED Elijah. Not physically but he come with the spirit and power of Elijah. John himself doesn’t know this. He even when he denied that he was Elijah himself when asked. You need to follow what Christ declared. To Christ, John did fulfilled the prophecy.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I read it. BTW, I am not pre-mill/pre-trib, etc. I am Eastern Orthodox...
It is appointed for ALL to die once (Hebrews 9:27). It also says Eliyahu was translated. Same with Enokh (Hebrews 11:5). Genesis 5:24. Malakhi 4 implies that Eliyahu was still alive. Yeshua after He rose had a physical, but now immortal, body. That is the change. this in itself disproves your opinions...

Please explain to us what you mean by Elijah WAS “still alive”:

Mal 4:5-6
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

How did He come? Did he come physically? Or did someone else having the same spirit and power of Elijah which is actually the Holy Spirit? Take your time!

 

[iamlamad]

HUH? Christ SAID this John was INDEED Elijah. Not physically but he come with the spirit and power of Elijah. John himself doesn’t know this. He even when he denied that he was Elijah himself when asked. You need to follow what Christ declared. To Christ, John did fulfilled the prophecy.

So you are saying that Elijah is not coming in our future and will not be one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation?

 

[Zao is life]

The very last words of the Old Testament are as follows:

Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse. Malachi 4:5-6​

Please note that these are the very last words of the Old Testament. They describe the coming of the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD and associate it with the coming of Elijah. The Great and Terrible Day of the LORD is assumed by many today to be the final event on earth’s eschatological time clock. But according to Jesus, it has already occurred. In the following statements, Jesus says that John the Baptist was Elijah.

And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come. Matthew 11:14 NASB​

And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist. Matthew 17:11-13 NASB​

Because Jesus says something, I take serious note of it. By Jesus making these claims about John the Baptist, and by equating John’s coming with the coming of Elijah, I see no other way to interpret them than to conclude that Jesus was claiming His own coming was in fact the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD. How else can these verses be interpreted?

And if Jesus’ first coming was the Great and terrible Day of the LORD, what on earth are Christians waiting for with respect to His Second Coming? What more great and terrible day can there be than the day God Himself came in the flesh and allowed Himself to be hung on a cross? I find it hard to believe anything else could be done and be more aptly described as Great & Terrible…

1. You fail to note that when the Pharisees asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, he said, "I am not".

When the disciples saw Moses and Elijah with Jesus on the mountain where He was transfigured, on the way down they asked Him why the prophets say that Elijah must come first.

2. You fail to note that Jesus juxtaposed a future-tense fulfilment with a past-tense fulfilment in His reply.

"And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things;

but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist." Matthew 17:11-13 NASB

3. You fail to note that Zechariah the priest was told that John came in the spirit and power of Elijah.

4. You fail to note that it is when Jesus spoke of the past-tense fulfilment of the coming of Elijah, that the apostles understood that He was talking to them of John the Baptist who came in the spirit and power of Elijah but denied being Elijah (but you also fail to note that He also gave a future-tense fulfilment of the coming of Elijah).

So did Jesus answer their question?

Yes. Fully.

Have you answered this question in your OP in this thread?

No - you've taken away from Jesus' answer.

 

[Timtofly]

They just saw Elijah. Why did they not ask him then?

 

[swainkas]

I cannot see how the teaching of Peter, Paul or the other apostles contradicts the words of Christ in any way.

I'll share with you one example of how Paul's teaching contradicts Christ's.

Here are Christ's thoughts on what is the greatest commandment and how to sum up the law.

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:36-40​

Here is Paul's summation of the law.

For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Galatians 5:14
​

Paul totally misses the weightier of the two commands in his summation. Without loving God first, loving your neighbor is just liberal nonsense.

I'm sure this is just a slip-up and that it wasn't a purposeful misleading on Paul's part. But it is an example of How Christ is perfect and so are the things He says, while the things Paul says are not necessarily perfect.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I'll share with you one example of how Paul's teaching contradicts Christ's.

Here are Christ's thoughts on what is the greatest commandment and how to sum up the law.

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:36-40​

Here is Paul's summation of the law.

For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Galatians 5:14
​

Paul totally misses the weightier of the two commands in his summation. Without loving God first, loving your neighbor is just liberal nonsense.

I'm sure this is just a slip-up and that it wasn't a purposeful misleading on Paul's part. But it is an example of How Christ is perfect and so are the things He says, while the things Paul says are not necessarily perfect.

You are entitled to your opinion. I think that you are on dangerous ground when you start judging God's founding apostles. There is a great deal outside of the gospels that Lord Jesus did not talk about. So what do you dismiss and what do you accept? You make yourself the authority.

 

[swainkas]

You are entitled to your opinion. I think that you are on dangerous ground when you start judging God's founding apostles. There is a great deal outside of the gospels that Lord Jesus did not talk about. So what do you dismiss and what do you accept? You make yourself the authority.

I haven't judged anybody. All I did was compare Paul to Jesus. It was Jesus' words that judged Paul, not me.

I think it is fair game to compare the teachings of Christ to anybody else's in the Bible or any other book for that matter. The words in red rule all others.

 

[Abraxos]

I'll share with you one example of how Paul's teaching contradicts Christ's.

Here are Christ's thoughts on what is the greatest commandment and how to sum up the law.

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:36-40​

Here is Paul's summation of the law.

For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Galatians 5:14
​

Paul totally misses the weightier of the two commands in his summation. Without loving God first, loving your neighbor is just liberal nonsense.

I'm sure this is just a slip-up and that it wasn't a purposeful misleading on Paul's part. But it is an example of How Christ is perfect and so are the things He says, while the things Paul says are not necessarily perfect.

I Disagree. Paul is actually paraphrasing Leviticus 19:18 which is a direct command from God. To love God is to keep His commandments, correct? and the point is to keep this command not from a legalistic point of view but to express the law written in our hearts which Christ Jesus paid for with his blood.
It is the same with "Do unto others as you have them do unto you, for this sums up the whole Law and the Prophets " (Matthew 7:12). It is a command direct from God and to fulfil it is to follow His wisdom and teachings and acting upon it, and as you do this you are writing the law on your heart which inherently is fulfilling the whole of the Law - and thus, you are pleasing God which is also loving God.

So it isn't so much a "slip-up" between Apostle Paul's epistles and Jesus' teachings, but are a deeper realisation that Paul is intimately complimentary to the Lord.

 

[swainkas]

I Disagree. Paul is actually paraphrasing Leviticus 19:18 which is a direct command from God. To love God is to keep His commandments, correct? and the point is to keep this command not from a legalistic point of view but to express the law written in our hearts which Christ Jesus paid for with his blood.
It is the same with "Do unto others as you have them do unto you, for this sums up the whole Law and the Prophets " (Matthew 7:12). It is a command direct from God and to fulfil it is to follow His wisdom and teachings and acting upon it, and as you do this you are writing the law on your heart which inherently is fulfilling the whole of the Law - and thus, you are pleasing God which is also loving God.

So it isn't so much a "slip-up" between Apostle Paul's epistles and Jesus' teachings, but are a deeper realisation that Paul is intimately complimentary to the Lord.

Thanks for sharing another quote from Jesus. It's very helpful. I'll let Paul off the hook on that one.

 

[chad kincham]

I see no other way to interpret them than to conclude that Jesus was claiming His own coming was in fact the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD. How else can these verses be interpreted?

The prophecy didn’t say how long before the day of the Lord that Elijah would show up.

The day of the Lord occurs at Jesus’ return to earth. Look at what happens during the day of the Lord, and it’s obvious Jesus didn’t do that in His first visit to earth.

At His return Is when He comes with a sword, vengeance, and flames of fire.

Not to mention that Elijah returns in person as one of the two witnesses during the tribulation period, they are killed before mid trib, if memory serves.

BtW, scripture says John came in the same spirit and power of Elijah, but John was asked if he was THE Elijah, and he said NO.