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Elijah ascending to Heaven

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by ssammoh, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. ssammoh

    ssammoh Just another kid

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    It saysin 2 Kings 2:11, it says

    "And it came to pass, as they still went on and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

    However, in John 3:13, it says

    " And no man hath ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, even the Son of Man who is in Heaven."

    Would anyone here please reconcile these two verses???
     
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  2. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    Elijah ascended into Heaven in a fiery chariot [angels took him], and is even there now [one of the very few, like Enoch, also later Moses in a special resurrection and taken and much later some around Jerusalem were taken in triumph, as firstfruits [Matthew]], and Elijah appeared upon the Mt. of Transfiguration [all texts upon request].

    John 3, is Jesus speaking unto Nicodemus about being born again, born from above, by the Holy Spirit, and speaking of those heavenly things. Jesus is saying that no man has ascended into heaven to gain that knowledge of heavenly things, but Christ Jesus brought it down from Heaven when He descended. Hence He says, "We speak..."

    Jesus is Divinity in humanity.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  3. maco

    maco Well-Known Member

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    Elijah didn't go to heaven. That's what people have been taught and the Bible was tweaked to fit the belief that when you die you go to heaven but that's not what the Bible says.
     
  4. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    No, it is exactly what it says, that Elijah did indeed enter into Heaven without seeing death, yet others have been taught otherwise through other various groups [like WTS, etc], but the Bible is clear:

    And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. 2 Kings 2:1

    And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 2 Kings 2:11

    Elijah, himself in person, in glory, is seen later with the resurrected and glorious Moses upon the Mt. of transfiguration, many hundreds of years later, in the time of Christ Jesus when he was there glorified.

    Elijah is a type of those who will not die in the end when Jesus comes... and enter into Heaven without seeing death...
    Moses is a type of those who die and will receive a resurrection when Jesus comes... and enter into heaven having been raised.

    Enoch was also taken into Heaven without seeing death.

    The only other group, entered into Heaven, are those in the special resurrection at Jesus own resurrection.

    ...everyone else, righteous or wicked are asleep, awaiting their respective resurrection.
     
  5. Nanopants

    Nanopants Guest

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    Good question. Have a look at these two verses:

    I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. -John 10:9

    Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. -Mat 7:7

    ... as compared with:

    Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. -Rev 3:20

    Think that's a contradiction? Think again:

    Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. -John 14:11

    Christ is not only Son of God, Word made flesh, but also the first among many brethren:

    I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. -John 17:20-23
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2013
  6. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    ascended can have the meaning of taking yourself up
    Jesus ascended to heaven because He is God and Man, He can go up on His own power and authority

    just like you can ascend up steps

    Elijah was carried in a chariot, taken up, not brought by his own power, he was assumed into heaven

    that is a Catholic understanding of ascended vs. assumed

    I do not know if the words in the original Greek and Hebrew make such a distinction
    I hope this was some help

    on a personal note, nice to see you again my dear sister in Christ, I hope all is well with you :)
     
  7. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    ssammoth, that's the reason I believe Elijah will be one of the two witnesses who will be killed in the end times (Rev 11:7).
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
  8. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    He met Elijah in the transfiguration mount with Moses .

    He was waiting there until that event happened .

    also alluded to in a story regarding a beggar named lazarus .. everyone from the OT saints were waiting in abraham's bosom for the promise to be fulfilled before they could enter .

    that's what comes to mind for me .
     
  9. ssammoh

    ssammoh Just another kid

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    Hi. :) That makes sense. And yup, all is well with me.
     
  10. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    Yes indeed.
    The Son of Man is the Title of Deity given to God the Word in heaven, who was with God, hidden, and who was God, and who was to come in flesh, die as the Lamb for our Atonement/Peace with God as Adam beings, descend to Sheol to give all sin to Azazel & Co chained there, ascend, taking those righteous souls held captive in the first death to the City of God above, where the Son of Man sits on the prepared throne as God the Word and Creator of all things for Himself, and in whose bodily image [Romans 5:14] Adam [the name of the first human being race] is made.

    When the Son of Man put on the prepared in the womb of a virgin, flesh body of second creation [like a garment Isaiah 59], He did not cease being the Son of Man in heaven, sitting on the throne, but was the Hidden One seen in Him only by Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam.

    So you just need to realize that the throne in heaven is that throne prepared for the Son of Man and on which no human being will sit or ascend to, but will share the rule with Him who was threre from the beginning, hidden in God and who was God, and who is come in flesh, but who never left the throne in heaven vacated while He was -and is- extended into the prepared human being flesh body and nature for His coming as Kinsman/Redeemer.
    You must read the book of Enoch to understand the throne of God in heaven which no human being ascended to and which was prepared for the Son of Man from the beginning of creation.

    "Enoch" is canon in the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible and should never have been cast off by western believers, because it is the foundational prophetic revelation to understand the Gospel "from the beginning of creation".
    Even the rehearsal of the Day of Atonemen,t when the goat is elected by lot "to Azazel" and on whom all sin was laid to take it to Azazel chained in the "wilderness" =Sheol- cannot be understood without that foundational book.

    Because it was cast aside and blindness entered the Western Church and their eyes were without revelation/sight, then the very name "Azazel" was not translated as "itself", in the English translations, but was made into "scapegoat" which is totally misleading for the reason the goat was elected by lot on the Day of Atonement "To Azazel", to whom all sin would be given on the Day of Atonement, as revealed in Enoch in a fragment written by Noah.
     
  11. Jig

    Jig Christ Follower

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    The term "heaven" is somewhat ambiguous. It has several different meanings - the same can be said for the term "hell". Typically when I get into a debate with someone on the topic of the "afterlife", I insist that these two terms be further elaborated on. In the context of 2 Kings it appears that Elijah was taken up into heaven (as in the abode of God) - not the eternal heaven where believers will exist after the judgement event (which is the New Earth).

    As it stands, no one is in the New Earth "heaven" yet. Also, no one is in the Lake of Fire "hell" either.
     
  12. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    That event already took place. The Two Witnesses are the Law and the Prophets [the Scriptures and Gods people] which prophesied in sackcloth and ashes during the dark ages 538-1798 [time [1], times [2] and half time [1/2] 3 1/2 prophetic years], and were killed in 1793-1797 [3 1/2 prophetic days], during the french revolution and the reign of terror. A whole nation, ruled by the power of atheism, by law outlawed the Bible and forbade God and killed all christians. At the end of the 3 1/2 years, they allowed it them back, thus resurrected and glorifed in the presence of them all, like the 'Voltaire', Adam Weishaupt, etc...and where once was the place of Voltaire, claiming to be able to overthrow the scriptures stood a Bible printing house, and in the years following, the bible Societies in europe and America were formed and millions of copies went forth, even in the hands of missionaries...

    In 538 it was the very Franks which placed the Sword of the State into the hands of Papal Rome... in 1798 it was their [Franks] descendants, the French under Napoleon,and his military man Alexander Berthier that took it away. It was the same nation which from the years 1776-1798 that also aided the US into coming into power. The first beast [Rev 13] received the deadly wound, and the second beast [Rev 13] arose from the wilderness...

    Revelation 11:7 is long over. The cited details of these things from scripture and history may be given elsewhere in another thread. There were many signs in direct order which lead to these events and following...
     
  13. Jig

    Jig Christ Follower

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    This is simply not true. I disagree with much of this type of SDA propaganda. Way too subjective.
     
  14. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    Heaven has 3 Biblical meanings. [1] Atmosphere where the Birds fly, [2] the Heaven in which dwell the Sun, Moon and Stars, and [3] the 3rd heaven beyond these, wherein is the Paradise [Eden/Garden] of God and His Throne, His Temple, His Ark, His Angels etc dwell.

    The New Heaven/New Earth is referring to that which is not yet here, and is speaking of the literal earth and literal atmosphere which will be recreated, for all saved mankind to dwell in after the 1000 years and destruction of all the wicked, possibly also referring to local heavens being regenerated also [like moon, etc], but not the 3rd heaven.

    Therefore, it is Biblically correct to say no one is in the New Earth yet, and also correct to say that no one is in the lake of fire either [Rev 20], etc.

    Elijah was taken to the 3rd Heaven, as was Enoch, and later Moses and those also still later at Jesus own resurrection/ascension.
     
  15. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    How did the Franks place the "sword of the State" into papal hands in 538AD? You do realize that the Byzantines were fighting the Ostrogoths over control of Italy in that year, not the Franks, right? Emperor Justinian had no interest in handing temporal authority of the State over to the bishop of Rome.

    Now the Franks were crucial in the formation of the papal states (ie; the Donation of Pepin), but that was in the 8th Century...I'm afraid you're timeline is off by about 200 years.
     
  16. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee Repentance works.

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    I think the motto is "never let history get in the way of a good story". If you read THE GREAT CONTROVERSY with that in mind you'll understand the whole thing.
     
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