Election and evangelism

[frater_domus]

Could someone please expain how unconditional election and evangelism fit together? Is it the case that of all those that hear the gospel, only the elect would react to it and follow Christ as a result?

 

[HereIStand]

Election should never be tied up with evangelism. Election is intended as a source of encouragement for Christians in the New Testament. It's not Paul's focus as it relates to those outside Christ.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Could someone please expain how unconditional election and evangelism fit together? Is it the case that of all those that hear the gospel, only the elect would react to it and follow Christ as a result?

You may want to give a little more detail of how you define the word “election” because it is a word used by Calvinist’s when describing their particular beliefs.

Could you define and include scripture references with it? Thanks

 

[frater_domus]

You may want to give a little more detail of how you define the word “election” because it is a word used by Calvinist’s when describing their particular beliefs.

Could you define and include scripture references with it? Thanks

No one comes to God by their own volition. Those that do were chosen by God to do so. Unless God chooses to draw closer, we will not. I know that it is a debate and that especially Catholics deny it. Seems biblical though. Romans 9:11-13; Romans 9:16; Romans 10:20; 1 Corinthians 1:27-29; 2 Timothy 1:9; Mark 13:20; Ephesians 1:4-5; Revelation 13:8; Revelation 17:8 and probably a few other.
Some are chosen, others are left to their sin. Exodus 33:19; Deuteronomy 7:6-7; Romans 9:10-24; Acts 13:48; 1 Peter 2:8.

My question is how the spreading of the gospel, aka evangelism, fits into that. We are told to do it, so it can not be pointless. But if those that would believe are already chosen, what is the point of spreading the gospel? So that the elect can hear and believe it?

 

[ToBeLoved]

No one comes to God by their own volition. Those that do were chosen by God to do so. Unless God chooses to draw closer, we will not. I know that it is a debate and that especially Catholics deny it. Seems biblical though. Romans 9:11-13; Romans 9:16; Romans 10:20; 1 Corinthians 1:27-29; 2 Timothy 1:9; Mark 13:20; Ephesians 1:4-5; Revelation 13:8; Revelation 17:8 and probably a few other.

My question is how the spreading of the gospel, aka evangelism, fits into that. We are told to do it, so it can not be pointless. But if those that would believe are already chosen, what is the point of spreading the gospel? So that the elect can hear and believe it?

Thanks for the clarification. Not wanting to get into a debate about election and Calvinist beliefs, I’ll let you have your thread. I try to avoid controversial topics on weekends as sometimes I get a little frustrated with this subject.

 

[dreadnought]

Could someone please expain how unconditional election and evangelism fit together? Is it the case that of all those that hear the gospel, only the elect would react to it and follow Christ as a result?

I believe people misunderstand the "elect," and devise theologies that state that entering heaven has nothing to do with righteousness, and everything to do with random drawings. We don't go to heaven through random drawings.

 

[Tree of Life]

Could someone please expain how unconditional election and evangelism fit together?

Unconditional election gives us a reason to evangelize. We can proclaim the gospel to others with confident assurance that some will hear, repent, and be saved.

Is it the case that of all those that hear the gospel, only the elect would react to it and follow Christ as a result?

Yes. This is the case.

 

[frater_domus]

@dreadnought Only by faith in Christ are we made righteous and that is the only way to heaven. Doesn’t election merely say that that only the elect have the potential for saving faith while others see God’s word as foolishness?

 

[Tree of Life]

@dreadnought Only by faith in Christ are we made righteous and that is the only way to heaven. Doesn’t election merely say that that only the elect have the potential for saving faith while others see God’s word as foolishness?

UE says that God, from all eternity, elected some to eternal life. In the course of history, these elect will hear the gospel, they will have their hearts softened, wills empowered, and minds renewed by the Holy Spirit, they will repent, and they will believe in Christ unto salvation. None other than the elect will understand the gospel in this saving way.

 

[dreadnought]

@dreadnought Only by faith in Christ are we made righteous and that is the only way to heaven. Doesn’t election merely say that that only the elect have the potential for saving faith while others see God’s word as foolishness?

No, I believe it takes some effort on our part to be righteous. We need to resist the temptation to sin.

 

[frater_domus]

No, I believe it takes some effort on our part to be righteous. We need to resist the temptation to sin.

That is a catholic teaching. Paul teaches that we are eaved by faith alone, so that none may boast. In fact, half of the letter to the Romans is devotes to the topic of salvation by faith alone.

 

[dreadnought]

That is a catholic teaching. Paul teaches that we are eaved by faith alone, so that none may boast. In fact, half of the letter to the Romans is devotes to the topic of salvation by faith alone.

Catholic teaching? How would I know that?

 

[dreadnought]

That is a catholic teaching. Paul teaches that we are eaved by faith alone, so that none may boast. In fact, half of the letter to the Romans is devotes to the topic of salvation by faith alone.

There are consequences to sin.

 

[frater_domus]

Aye, there are. No arguement there. However, with Christ’s righteousness imputed onto us, we are justified by faith. That is the entry point, the start of path as a Christian. From that point on, it is a war between the spirit and the flesh and where works and all other things we know of start. It is not whether we get saved or not, that has happened with faith in Christ. Works and sin influences the rewards in heaven, but whether we are saved or not.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Lutherans also believe in Election, but for us the unconditional election of God comes to us through the efficacious Means of Grace: Word and Sacrament. That's the purpose of evangelism, Christ gave His Church the keys of the kingdom by which to minister with Word and Sacrament through which the Holy Spirit creates faith and appropriates Christ's redemptive work. A major difference between the Lutheran view with the Calvinist view is that we believe that Christ's atonement is universal, not limited (Christ died for everyone, really and truly, not just in potential, and not just for the elect, but for everyone in actuality), that God wants everyone to be saved, but there are those who will refuse and reject grace--even those who have received the word, and believed, can fall away, as Jesus Himself speaks of the possibility of the elect falling away (Matthew 24:24).

In Lutheranism Election isn't merely God's foreknowledge, but is truly God predestining us in Christ by His grace; and it's not some hidden in God's inscrutable and secret will, it is made plain and manifest in the preaching of the word and the Sacraments--for all who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ (Galatians 3:27) all of us who have been baptized into Jesus Christ have been baptized into His death, buried with Him, and raised up with Him (Romans 6) even being seated with Him in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6)--election isn't about God picking and choosing who will and won't be saved, but rather the assurance that we are Christ's on account of God's promises.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Could someone please expain how unconditional election and evangelism fit together?

You conflate two different things, they don't fit together. Evangelism deals with an earthly concept. Evangelism is to spread God's word. We are commanded to do it. The Holy Spirit works in the word. God's word is heard and some follow it. Others reject it.

Election deals with a heavenly concept. It has to do with God knowing everything, including the future. I think the best way to learn of election is with the concept of predestination. And, predestination starts with foreknowledge as scripture says.

God knows the future. He knows every thing we do. He knows every decision we WILL make. To him, judging us before we do something is no different as judging us after we do something. Christians have no problem with God judging us on judgement day, so they should have no problem with him judging us since creation.

Now scripture.

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.​

It starts with what I said, God foreknew. So because God knows the choices we will make, those that follow God are the ones he predestines, calls, justifies and are his elect.

 

[Micah888]

You may want to give a little more detail of how you define the word “election” because it is a word used by Calvinist’s when describing their particular beliefs.

He did say "unconditional election" which is the Calvinist term from TULIP.

T = total depravity
U = unconditional election
L = limited atonement
I = irresistible grace
P = perseverance of the saints

I do not subscribe to this, but Reformed Theology does. So only those who believe in unconditional election can answer the question asked.

 

[Tayla]

Could someone please expain how unconditional election and evangelism fit together? Is it the case that of all those that hear the gospel, only the elect would react to it and follow Christ as a result?

Yes. Unconditional election is untrue.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

A major difference between the Lutheran view with the Calvinist view is that we believe that Christ's atonement is universal, not limited (Christ died for everyone, really and truly, not just in potential, and not just for the elect, but for everyone in actuality), that God wants everyone to be saved, but there are those who will refuse and reject grace--even those who have received the word, and believed, can fall away, as Jesus Himself speaks of the possibility of the elect falling away (Matthew 24:24).

There is a big difference between wanting all to be saved and atoning the sins of those that reject God's grace. You can have one without the other.

As to Matthew 24:24 and the if possible to lead astray the elect, there is no "if possible" in Romans 8:29-30. Saved is used interchangeably with elect. There is no leading to falling away of the elect. Although, they may still be deceived just as Eve was deceived. And, there may be those that could have possibly been elect that are deceived by Satan to the point of rejecting God.

 

[John tower]

Could someone please expain how unconditional election and evangelism fit together? Is it the case that of all those that hear the gospel, only the elect would react to it and follow Christ as a result?

Acts 13(48).