Elect?

[Celticroots]

The doctrine of election and worries over assurance of salvation have troubled me for years. I heard that if you aren't one of the elect you wouldn't worry about whether you were or not?

I've accepted Christ but still worry I am not elect?

 

[Eryk]

If you want to be among the elect, that means you are.

John 6:37
Those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

The doctrine of election and worries over assurance of salvation have troubled me for years. I heard that if you aren't one of the elect you wouldn't worry about whether you were or not?

I've accepted Christ but still worry I am not elect?

Jesus said, if you believe in Me, you're saved. That's all that matters!!!

All the teachings of Calvinism or OSAS etc are invention of humans and don't matter at all.

So, please, stop worrying and trust the clear and simple words of Jesus Christ our Lord. He's above all humans and above all teachings invented by humans.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The doctrine of election and worries over assurance of salvation have troubled me for years. I heard that if you aren't one of the elect you wouldn't worry about whether you were or not?

I've accepted Christ but still worry I am not elect?

I don't get it. I see so many people worry about whether they are reprobate or not. The flip side of 'blessed assurance' is like 'permanent angst' among those who are in to this sort of belief system. A lot of folks have this angst. As a Catholic, who doesn't participate in this kind of belief, I feel like I have been spared a terrible spiritual burden of having to figure out if I feel like I'm saved or not.

You seem to be saying that if you ARE worried about it you are saved. That if you were a plain reprobate you wouldn't care at all. I never heard that before. The way it was always presented was that you could know you were saved, should figure out if you are saved, and what a comfort that would be for you. Except that some people would falsely think they were saved, be assured of a false salvation, and then find themselves surprised roasting for all eternity. So the assurance isn't always sure even if you think you know you have it.

I think that the root to peace is to recognize the depth of the love of God for you and to return that love as you are able. Such love does not worry about these things.

 

[Innerfire89]

2 Tim. 2:25
Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.

You repent because God causes you to repent and come to know truth.

Phillip. 1:29
For it has not only granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him.

You believe because God wants you to believe and you're gonna suffer too but it's worth it.. So my quistion to you is do you believe Christ died for your sin and do you claim him as lord and as saviour? Is Christ master of your life? If yes then you have nothing to worry about, Jesus will take care of you.

 

[Celticroots]

I am not a five point Calvinist. I was wondering if that belief holds any bearing.

 

[Celticroots]

2 Tim. 2:25
Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.

You repent because God causes you to repent and come to know truth.

Phillip. 1:29
For it has not only granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him.

You believe because God wants you to believe and you're gonna suffer too but it's worth it.. So my quistion to you is do you believe Christ died for your sin and do you claim him as lord and as saviour? Is Christ master of your life? If yes then you have nothing to worry about, Jesus will take care of you.

Yes I do believe the things you listed and Christ is the master of my life.

 

[JIMINZ]

(((<*^^*>)))

 

[Celticroots]

I don't get it. I see so many people worry about whether they are reprobate or not. The flip side of 'blessed assurance' is like 'permanent angst' among those who are in to this sort of belief system. A lot of folks have this angst. As a Catholic, who doesn't participate in this kind of belief, I feel like I have been spared a terrible spiritual burden of having to figure out if I feel like I'm saved or not.

You seem to be saying that if you ARE worried about it you are saved. That if you were a plain reprobate you wouldn't care at all. I never heard that before. The way it was always presented was that you could know you were saved, should figure out if you are saved, and what a comfort that would be for you. Except that some people would falsely think they were saved, be assured of a false salvation, and then find themselves surprised roasting for all eternity. So the assurance isn't always sure even if you think you know you have it.

I think that the root to peace is to recognize the depth of the love of God for you and to return that love as you are able. Such love does not worry about these things.

Well how can one figure out they're saved?

 

[Celticroots]

It sounds as though you have either been taught, or heard indirectly some of the Doctrines of Calvin.
I could go into a whole recitation on who the Elect and the Chosen actually are, but I will let this suffice.

2 Pet. 1:2-11
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5) And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6) And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7) And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8) For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9) But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11) For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Be Blessed

What does that mean? Simply?

 

[chevyontheriver]

I am not a five point Calvinist. I was wondering if that belief holds any bearing.

I'm not a Calvinist. On the TULIP scale I might rate a 2.5 of 5. Calvinists get a few things right and I get a few things right and we might just get a few of the same things right.

 

[Anto9us]

Celticroots, I am the antithesis of a 5-point Calvinist, I don't know what bearing that belief holds, as long as today - now - I can still say "I am a believer"

Paul wrote that he "did not count himself to have apprehended"

That he was going to "press forward toward the mark of the high calling"

if by any means he could "attain unto the resurrection"

does that mean Paul WORRIED ABOUT IT - whether he was really one of the Elect?

I just don't think so.

 

[JIMINZ]

The doctrine of election and worries over assurance of salvation have troubled me for years. I heard that if you aren't one of the elect you wouldn't worry about whether you were or not?

I've accepted Christ but still worry I am not elect?

It sounds as though you have either been taught, or heard indirectly some of the Doctrines of Calvin.
I could go into a whole recitation on who the Elect and the Chosen actually are, but I will let this suffice.

2 Pet. 1:2-11
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5) And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6) And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7) And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8) For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9) But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11) For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Be Blessed

 

[Innerfire89]

The five points hold each other together. You can't have one without the others. The five points are all backed by Scripture. You don't have to be a five point calvinist to have salvation of course, but you want to believe what is correct. For example, if uncondicional election is said to be false then one would have to think untruthfuly high of themself or would have to water down the laws, in turn they would have sin they haven't repented for and would also make the aposple Paul a liar who said he was the chief of sinners. Then they would need to explain what sins bar someone from salvation that would want to be saved and then we have to ignoire Scripture that tells us that its God's elect who want to be save and the that are reprobate hostile toward God and don't want to be. Jesus would be turning away who the father gave him but Scripture tells us otherwise.

 

[Innerfire89]

What is the point you disagree with? People usually have trouble limited attonment.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The doctrine of election and worries over assurance of salvation have troubled me for years. I heard that if you aren't one of the elect you wouldn't worry about whether you were or not?

The problem of "election" is that it usually refers to the reformed doctrine (Calvinism). The biblical doctrine of election isn't even about salvation. It is about being chosen (or elected) for service.

A thorough study of all the related Greek words translated choice/choose/election/elect reveal 6 categories (for lack of a better word) of election:

1. Election of Christ: an individual election
1 Pet 2:6 Isa 28:16 Isa 42:1 Luke 9:35 Luke 23:35
2. Election of Angels: a group or corporate election
1 Tim 5:21
3. Election of Israel: a group or corporate election
Amos 3:2 Deut 7:6 Acts 13:17
4. Election of believers: a group or corporate election
Eph 1:4a [note: this verse doesn’t say that God chose who would be believers, but that He chose believers…to be holy and blameless]
1 Peter 2:9
5. The Election of the 12 Disciples: a group or corporate election John 15:16
6. The Election of Paul: an individual election Acts 9:15

It should be easy to see that none of these categories were chosen to be saved. But every one of them was chosen for service, even including Judas Iscariot!

I've accepted Christ but still worry I am not elect?

Those who have accepted Christ as their Savior should have no worries at all.

In John 5:24, Jesus said whoever believes HAS eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28, Jesus said this about those who have believed: "I give them eternal life, and they shall NEVER PERISH."

That should settle it. Based on believing what Jesus Christ said, one who has believed in Him should NEVER worry about their salvation.

Hope this helps.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes I do believe the things you listed and Christ is the master of my life.

Then no worries.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am not a five point Calvinist. I was wondering if that belief holds any bearing.

Nope.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well how can one figure out they're saved?

By believing John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The five points hold each other together. You can't have one without the others. The five points are all backed by Scripture.

Not.

Point 1 goes too far by stating that depraved man cannot even believe until he has been regenerated, which gets the cart before the horse. One must believe in order to be regenerated. Study Eph 2: 5 and 8 a while to see the order of belief and regeneration.

Point 2 misses the biblical teaching on election altogether. Election is not about salvation, but about service. See post #16 for the categories of who God has elected.

Point 3 cannot show any Scripture about Christ dying ONLY for the elect. There are, however, a number of verses that very plainly states that Christ died for all. Yet, there will be Calvinists joining in trying to convince us that "all" only means "all kinds of people". Yeah, right.

Point 4 errors because the Holy Spirit CAN be resisted. Acts 7:51 says so.

Point 5 seems to have 2 ideas:
a. perseverance of the saints: "true believers" cannot commit apostasy and cease to believe. Yet Jesus Himself taught about some who "believed for a while and then fell away" in Luke 8:13. And Paul wrote about apostasy in 1 Tim 4:1 regarding latter days.

b. preservation of the saints: once saved, always saved. This point is rock solid true!! No saved person will perish because Jesus made that clear by what He said in:
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Now, some Arminian type folk will argue that Jn 3:16 means that one must continue to believe in order to continue to have eternal life, but 10:28 certainly clears that up.

It's NOT about us to keep us saved. It's ALL about Christ and His promises.

If Jesus Christ has given you eternal life, on the basis of believing in Him for it, then He has said that you will never perish.

Simple as that.

You don't have to be a five point calvinist to have salvation of course, but you want to believe what is correct.

Absolutely true!