Egyptian Mythology VS The Bible

[justcoolforyou]

Please Help.
Egyptian Mythology tells a lot of the most important stories of the Bible in incredible accuracy, but PREDATES the Bible by very many years.
If this is true than that makes the Bible a copy and the Christian religion completely crumbles..
I need answers, how can we combat this?

Consider the Egyptian phenoix birds... a bird made of fire,power of resurrection. The holy spirit like a bird , fire, power of resurrection. ..

 

[timewerx]

Where there is goddess worship, there will be the title--Queen of heaven---

It was the Romans who invented the concept.

In all versions, it depicts a woman with stars on her head or pointy things like the Lady Liberty.

on the feet, it either has a crescent (Egyptian celestial boat) or serpent.


It mirrors the triumph of Lilith or Isis over the enemy. They share the same distinction as being the first human to transform into a divine being, possessing immortality, invincibility,and supernatural abilities.

Kinda like Christ's victory over death itself.

And because Isis was a human woman before, would obviously be especially attached to humanity.

What transformed Isis is the truth and gave her the ability to fly among many other abilities.

What did Christ said? - The Truth will set you free (as a bird??)

 

[mmksparbud]

It was the Romans who invented the concept.

In all versions, it depicts a woman with stars on her head or pointy things like the Lady Liberty.

on the feet, it either has a crescent (Egyptian celestial boat) or serpent.


It mirrors the triumph of Lilith or Isis over the enemy. They share the same distinction as being the first human to transform into a divine being, possessing immortality, invincibility,and supernatural abilities.

Kinda like Christ's victory over death itself.

And because Isis was a human woman before, would obviously be especially attached to humanity.

What transformed Isis is the truth and gave her the ability to fly among many other abilities.

What did Christ said? - The Truth will set you free (as a bird??)

The Romans invented the concept??---Don't think so---Queen of heaven was also the title given to Inanna--Long before Rome


https://goddessinspired.wordpress.c...ian-mother-goddess-queen-of-heaven-and-earth/

In the early days of Her worship Inanna was still seen as the all-encompassing Mother Goddess. She was still revered as the source of the Upper and Lower Waters, as the Queen of Heaven, Earth AND the Underworld.

Her earliest temple was discovered in Uruk (Erech), Inanna’s main and longest lasting place of worship, and dates back to about 5,000 BCE.
Inanna, the Great Mother Goddess of the Sumerians has many titles such as:

“Queen of Heaven and Earth”
“Priestess of Heaven”
“Light of the World”
“Morning and Evening Star”
“First Daughter of the Moon”
“Loud Thundering Storm”
“Righteous Judge”
“Forgiver of Sins”
“Holy Shepherdess”
“Hierodule of Heaven”
“Opener of the Womb”
“Framer of All Decrees”
“The Amazement of the Land”
“The Green One”
“She of the Springing Verdure”
“Queen of Stall and Fold” [2]

Every goddess ends up with most of these titles. Even the Chinese had them--not to mention the Mayan--Most goddesses are connected to the moon or sun as those were considered the 2 most powerful rulers of the heavens. Often having headdresses of "Lady Liberty" like qualities--they depicted the rays of the sun. Every culture has their "Queen of heaven."

 

[timewerx]

Every goddess ends up with most of these titles. Even the Chinese had them--not to mention the Mayan--Most goddesses are connected to the moon or sun as those were considered the 2 most powerful rulers of the heavens. Often having headdresses of "Lady Liberty" like qualities--they depicted the rays of the sun. Every culture has their "Queen of heaven."

Mmmm.... adds to the mystery!

 

[mmksparbud]

What mystery?---Every culture has their sun and moon gods--that's what they viewed as dominate forces of the world and made gods and goddesses out of them--and whatever form the goddess took, would be depicted with the sun or moon and the stars--not exactly a stretch and certainly no mystery.

 

[justcoolforyou]

The miracles of Christ is more ascribed to Isis.

Isis can also be ascribed to the Holy Spirit.

Isis can exist in any form imaginable, including in spirit form.


And what is the IHS? Is it a subtle Isis? Isis is also known to be exceptionally subtle, the master of disguise.

Ihs is the first letter of the name jesua in latin from the greek

 

[1213]

Please Help.
Egyptian Mythology tells a lot of the most important stories of the Bible in incredible accuracy, but PREDATES the Bible by very many years.
If this is true than that makes the Bible a copy and the Christian religion completely crumbles..
I need answers, how can we combat this?

Actually we should look more accurately what are the claims and on what they are based. But in generally, Christians are basically Jews, because Christianity is continuation from OT and even Paul says:

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 2:28-29

And OT is much older than NT and as I believe, Jews were in Egypt and therefore Egyptians could have copied all Christian like matters from Jews.

 

[mmksparbud]

Seeing as the Jews were in Egypt for over 400 years ---I imagine some of their believes definitely got "borrowed."

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

There is so much nonsense being bandied about here.

Firstly, take a look at comparative mythology and you will see that peoples of broadly the same culture, tend to have similar myths. This is on account of similar religious concepts and plain familiarity with each other.
In this way we see that throughout the Hamito-Semetic peoples we have a queen of heaven figure, be it Inanna, Ishtar, Astarte etc. and some form of motherhood myth relating to her, giving us this Madonna and child motif. This however is universal and you see very similar ideas in all cultures from Amaterasu of the Japanese to Indo-European religions with their celestial goddesses.
Generally, people are the same. We invent gods of similar things ie wind, rain, the desert etc. There are then innate similarities that would occur if we do so. For instance, the moon is usually perceived as female (although not universally) due to the changing phases of the moon being associated with the menses. The idea of a Heavenly father and Celestial mother is also quite common in very disparate cultures. In no way does this mean they are related.
Take a look at Fraser's Golden Bough and you will see many instances of the phenomenon of similar ideas arrising, although he was mostly concerned with the dying god theme which is also applicable here.
Therefore we can put to rest superficial similarities as to common origin because most of these concepts are universal to Humanity in general.
If you look at specifics then you will see very little to no similarity between Egyptian Mythology and Jewish thought. There is no jewish belief in the survival of the body being necessary for the afterlife, a thought integral to Egyptian beliefs. Likewise, the Isis myths relating to Horus, his fight with his uncle Seth and the death and resurrection of Osiris via mummification, has no Jewish or Christian equivalent. This however is the crux of the mythos. There was no intervention by Mary to raise Christ, no struggle between forces of life (Horus) and death and sterility (Seth) which clearly mark this out as an agricultural myth relating to the 'rebirth' of seeds into crops.
As to the influence of Egyptian religion on Christianity, we see some artwork in the early days that borrowed depictions of Isis and Horus for Mary and the baby Jesus and some spells repurposed from the Egyptian gods to Jesus, but that is about it. Artistic representation is a poor guide however as the Romans also repurposed their religious artwork to depict Christian themes as in the catacombs at Rome or in later times we see Christian themes depicted in Chinese religious framework in Tang dynasty China or 16th century Mexico using Aztec imagery to depict the Virgin Mary. It is very common when one religion replaces another to explain the new religion in images the practioners of the old would understand. It is ludicrous to say that the Aztecs or Romans or Chinese are the origins of Christianity and likewise we can extend this argument to Egyptian representations as well.
As to the repurposed spells and curses, these people obviously had no idea what was going on in Christianity and was merely treating it as an extention of the old polytheistic religion, so can safely be discarded as not integral to its development.

The old testament stories are not at all similar to egyptian mythology. Genesis has creation from scratch by a word while the Egyptians had a complicated tale of a Primordial mound arising from the waters with heptads of gods and early kingship. Likewise in Ra myth we have progression of the god in his solar barque through the world and at night through the netherworld. Nothing at all of these myths appear in any palpable form in Judaism except in the most superficial similarities (such as the Egyptians are talking about a snake and there is a snake in the old testament! It is absolute nonsense to consider such common concepts as related).

The only exception is when you reach Aten worship and Akhenaton as he was a monotheist (the most original and important aspect of Judaism), predates the likely time of the Exodus, and there are quite a lot of similarities between Psalm 104 and the Great Hymn to the Aten. But even here, there are significant theological differences and a large time difference so the theory that the Jews are displaced Aten worshippers has been largely abandoned and discredited by scholarship and Egyptology although it used to be quite popular. As to Psalm 104, it may be coincidence, wishful thinking on the part of comparative mythologisers or merely repurposing of religious material for other uses (as we see Buddhists in Japan for instance rewrite Christian hymns in honour of the Buddha in certain of the new traditions practiced there). However you slice it, it is extremely unlikely.

Another misconception is that the Isis worship at the time of the New Testament is Egyptian. No, it is Hellenistic adaption of it with Osiris replaced by Sarapis and the large scale simplification of the myths and repurposing Isis into a Greek Mystery religion framework of Astrological progression through the spheres. This has even less in common with Christianity than the original of New Kingdom or second Intermediate period times in Egypt.

If we look at actual evidence in the middle east, you will see that the Tetragrammaton first appears amongst the Shasu in the Sinai (?Jethro and the Midianites) before appearing within Canaan itself. The Tetragrammaton shows a clearly Hebrew origin as it has a clear origin in the Hebrew tongue. Likewise, the Exodus story and the Golden Calf clearly shows rejection of the other religious traditions of the surrounding people, a tendency that Judaism has continued throughout its history. If the religion was derived of Egyptian sources, there would be egyptian terms and clear themes present therein which is completely absent. Further we can trace the development of Judaism from monolatry via prophets to pure Monotheism in Archealogy which significantly undermines any theory of foreign origin.

Therefore, the likelihood of Egyptian origins for Judaism and its offshoot Christianity is slim to non-existent. Similarities are too broad to mean anything or clearly lies in the common cultural mileau of the times.

Regarding the IHS monogram, that is from the first three Greek letters of Jesus' name and have a late mediaeval origin and in no way can have anything whatsoever to do with Isis

 

[mmksparbud]

Seeing as the Jews were in Egypt for over 400 years ---I imagine some of their believes definitely got "borrowed."

OH---dear----by that I meant the Egyptians borrowed from the Jews, not the other way around!!

 

[timewerx]

OH---dear----by that I meant the Egyptians borrowed from the Jews, not the other way around!!

Sometimes, the mistakes we make aren't really mistakes

Judaists openly admit to adapting their religion during the Babylonian Captivity. Which is why the "Babylonian Talmud" has "Babylonian" to it. It has strong influences of the values they learned during Babylonian Captivity.

What are the odds they did the same thing while in Egypt?

Also why would the proud Egyptians copy religious stuff from their slaves?? It doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Der Alte]

Sometimes, the mistakes we make aren't really mistakes

Judaists openly admit to adapting their religion during the Babylonian Captivity. Which is why the "Babylonian Talmud" has "Babylonian" to it. It has strong influences of the values they learned during Babylonian Captivity.

What are the odds they did the same thing while in Egypt?

Also why would the proud Egyptians copy religious stuff from their slaves?? It doesn't make sense at all.

Nonsense! No, zero, none credible, verifiable, historical evidence. Similarity does not prove derivation.

 

[mmksparbud]

The Egyptians made gods of everything---the Jews did not.

 

[DamianWarS]

Sometimes, the mistakes we make aren't really mistakes

Judaists openly admit to adapting their religion during the Babylonian Captivity. Which is why the "Babylonian Talmud" has "Babylonian" to it. It has strong influences of the values they learned during Babylonian Captivity.

What are the odds they did the same thing while in Egypt?

Also why would the proud Egyptians copy religious stuff from their slaves?? It doesn't make sense at all.

it does make greater sense that the Hebrews were influenced by the Egyptians rather than the other way around. Egypt was one of the most advanced civilization of it's day and had well articulated concepts of religion where the Hebrews would have relied on oral traditions that happen to overlap with other cultures with the exception of accounts specific to the Hebrew forefathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob).

I don't see this as a problem. No doubt the Hebrews were theologically messed up when they entered the desert and needed some alignments. The 10 commandments would be the start because it would be the first written law directly from God rather than oral traditions that probably varied from house to house. The Genesis account pre-Abraham would be a way of setting these accounts straight so that they unquestionably point to God as the creator and provider of all things.

This shouldn't be so hard to believe. Genesis has 2 creation accounts that do not line up and of the two the first account happens to have a very similar feel to other creation myths. Could it be that this is taking a popular belief of a creation myth circulating among the Hebrews then redeeming it so that idolatry is removed and all glory is given to God. Why is it so offensive that the creation account of Genesis 1 could be adapted from another culture?

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

it does make greater sense that the Hebrews were influenced by the Egyptians rather than the other way around. Egypt was one of the most advanced civilization of it's day and had well articulated concepts of religion where the Hebrews would have relied on oral traditions that happen to overlap with other cultures with the exception of accounts specific to the Hebrew forefathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob).

I don't see this as a problem. No doubt the Hebrews were theologically messed up when they entered the desert and needed some alignments. The 10 commandments would be the start because it would be the first written law directly from God rather than oral traditions that probably varied from house to house. The Genesis account pre-Abraham would be a way of setting these accounts straight so that they unquestionably point to God as the creator and provider of all things.

This shouldn't be so hard to believe. Genesis has 2 creation accounts that do not line up and of the two the first account happens to have a very similar feel to other creation myths. Could it be that this is taking a popular belief of a creation myth circulating among the Hebrews then redeeming it so that idolatry is removed and all glory is given to God. Why is it so offensive that the creation account of Genesis 1 could be adapted from another culture?

The problem is that the Genesis account is markedly unlike other accounts. God creates out of nothing as opposed to other accounts which relate events with separations of gods and their birth from each other etc. Especially the Egyptian account is substantially different at least in the Heliopolitan version. There isn't even similarity with the Egyptian account which speaks of a primordial mound arising from the waters and a series of divine couples issueing forth from Atum.
While I agree there was likely some hebrew syncreticism with surrounding cultures, something you can see in the bible itself (for instance infant sacrifice condemned by Jeremiah and Baal worship), this is not reflected markedly as Egyptian derived, more from neighbouring Canaanites.

As to the Egyptians, they did sometimes adopt beliefs from inferior peoples as can be seen in their adoption of the semetic god Resheph and their seeing Baal as equivalent to Seth.
As can be seen with Christianity itself, and Rome, the rulers sometimes adopt the beliefs of the ruled.

 

[mmksparbud]

In the 40 years of the exodus, God managed to weed out the influence of the Egyptians from the people. The 2 so called creation stories is a non-issue. They're the same account. One just goes back to fill in the details. It is a way of speaking that is found in other areas of the bible. People are forever trying to make it into what it isn't. Don't understand it.

 

[Sistrin]

This should be fun. The lies of satanism land in full force on CF.

The story of Horus and the three Goddesses, were uncanny similarity to the life story of Christ.

According to which version? The one where Horus was the brother of Isis, or the one where Horus was the son of Isis? Or perhaps you are referring to the obvious similarities between the birth stories, where Christ birth was a blessed event heralding the salvation of man and Horus' birth was the result of necromancy, his body assembled and reanimated from the dismembered remains of Osiris?

Yes, I recall the first time I read of the birth of Horus. Really brought a tear to my eye...

You can quote from Murdock's book all you want, the Horus-Christ "connection" is nothing but another in a long line of attempts to discredit Christianity by comparing it to paganism. Egyptian mythology is steeped in paganism; many of its core symbols, beliefs, and practices have simply passed through time to be manifested in modern day satanism.

Being kind, the corollary you are attempting to draw is fringe nonsense based on flawed comparisons supported by verisimilitude. It is a theory crafted by the malicious for the ignorant. The only true comparison to be drawn is between Egyptian Mythology, to include the various stories of Horus, and as stated modern satanism.

And these predated Christ by thousands of years. There were no written, nor oral stories of Christ back then.

According to myth Horus was crucified, thus rendering him exactly like Christ. Except that the practice of crucifixion did not become common until the rule of Alexander the Great. Presumably Horus would have died prior to 356 B.C., except of course according to myth Horus never died at all. If Horus was never required to suffer the indignity of shuffling off the mortal coil then logically he was never crucified. The majority of the remaining claimed similarities promoted suffer from like deficiencies.

That there were no stories of Christ endemic to ancient Egypt is irrelevant. It would fall to later historians, spiritualist, and self-described Egyptologist such as Gerald Massey to craft the narrative still being promoted by modern writers such as D. M. Murdock.

It's impossible, the Jews have have possessed intimate knowledge of Christ back then. If you remember, the Jews did not recognize Christ.... So obviously, they possessed no literature of Christ.

And this word-salad is proof of what? Logically it makes as much sense as this:

The Jews hated ancient Egyptian mythology. The Jews also hated Christ. This strikes a common ground.

This qualifies as evidence of nothing. Does it not occur to you the primary reason Jewish people may disdain Egyptian mythology relates to the fact Jews were slaves in Egyptian society? With Ministry of Truth precision the effort to re-craft the historical narrative to fit a modern agenda continues. Look around the internet and you will find many questioning if Jews ever were held as slaves in ancient Egypt just as others question the holocaust. Regardless, the connection you are attempting to establish is ridiculous. The logical connection to be made is the Jews of Christ time hated being held in bondage. Thus they were looking for a figure to crush their oppressors in this world as opposed to the next.

Christ did not hate the Egyptians, in fact, lived there for a while to escape the Romans.

And according to the Book of Mormon Jesus lived in America.

Much of the support for the claim Jesus lived in Egypt is drawn from such nefarious sources as the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the Pyramid Texts, and the Coffin Texts. The Egyptian Book of the Dead speaks to such heartwarming issues as drinking blood, cannibalism, the use of torture chambers, washing in blood, and eating the hearts of the vanquished. The Coffin Texts are drawn from a collection of Egyptian funerary spells. The Pyramid Texts are also largely comprised of "spells or utterances" designed to address issues such as reanimation, ascension, and the travel habits of the dead.

The New Testament is neither clear nor precise in addressing the early childhood life of Jesus. Consequently many have attempted to fill an information vacuum by promoting narratives designed to fit an agenda. It has also been claimed Jesus went to both Britain and India. Why would those claims be considered any less valid than the claim of Christ living in Egypt? The answer is addressed above.

So we establish another thing. The enemies of Christ are the Romans and Jews, but NOT the Egyptians.

You have established nothing. Egyptian paganism is clearly the enemy of Christ, and that struggle continues to this day.

Do you recognize the origin of the imagery in this picture?

For those who may not be aware, that is Katie Perry being held aloft between Horus and Anubis. Here is another image of Katie Perry:

Perry is a self-avowed satanist. Here she is surrounded by dancers sporting costumes representing Bast, the Egyptian goddess of protection. And cats. Perry is but one of many examples which could be cited in regard to this issue, the epitome of which is, arguably, Beyonce:

For those not aware the image being promoted here is the Eye of Horus, an oft repeated symbol meant to convey adherence to satanist dogma.

Islam is more similar to Judaism than either Christianity and the Ancient Egyptian religion.

More nonsense. Islam has far more in common with the cultist nature of Egyptian mythology than it does either Christianity or Judaism. This would rate a separate debate, but quickly idolatry is a staple of both ancient Egyptian worship and modern Islam. In addition for those most visible in their practice of Islam, the extremist, the death cult nature of both is a clearly obvious characteristic.

Again, both Islam and Judaism hate both Christianity and the Ancient Egyptian religion.

Do you have any actual support for this claim?

Are we getting somewhere now??

Yeah, to the conclusion you are pushing an agenda based on flawed and spurious logic and data. And a general disdain for Christianity. To wit:

What I think is that Christianity is the surviving remnant of the Ancient Egyptian religion. It had to change its label to survive the onslaught of Islam and Judaism.

If this is what you really think, you seriously need to reexamine the process which led you to that conclusion.

 

[agnosticjefferson]

We can say one thing for sure. Everything jesus did was retold stories of the hebrew scriptures.

 

[civilwarbuff]

We can say one thing for sure. Everything jesus did was retold stories of the hebrew scriptures.

Care to (or able to) elaborate on that?

 

[agnosticjefferson]

Care to (or able to) elaborate on that?

What would you like me to start with?