Ecumenical Patriarch says those who "rebel" against the Council of Crete must be dealt with

tapi

Regular Member
Apr 19, 2010
1,497
498
Stockholm
✟147,994.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
A Statement was released by the Romanian patriarchate about the Council and the people from the Greek and Russian Churches rebelling against it in a fanatical and harmful manner, and creating division not only in their own canonical boundaries, but even going to Romanian parishes to instigate division.

Some bits of it below, for the full text see

Communique: Any clarification regarding faith must be made in ecclesial communion, not in disunion - Basilica.ro

The Holy Synod of the Romanian Patriarchate said:
The Romanian Patriarchate has stressed several times the fact that “the Council in Crete did not formulate new dogmas, but rather professed that the Orthodox Church is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ”, and has constantly urged that peace and unity of the Church be retained with all responsibility, recalling the words of Saint John Chrysostom saying that “nothing provokes God’s anger more than the division of the Church! Even if we would have achieved ten thousand glorious acts, yet we who cut to pieces the fullness of the Church suffer punishment no less sore than they who mangled His body” (St John Chrysostom, Homily 11 on Ephesians, PG 62, 85).

However, we note with sorrow in our soul that, in a fanatical and harmful manner, some rebellious people misled certain clerics and faithful stating falsely and denigratingly that the Council in Crete has proclaimed ecumenism as dogma of faith, and some clergy, believing this falsehood, uncanonically interrupted the liturgical remembrance of their bishop, thus disturbing the peace and unity of the Church by their divisive attitude.

The Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church stressed that nor the Council in Crete neither some other Orthodox Synod has declared ecumenism as a dogma of faith, in the same way as no canonical Orthodox Synod has ever declared ecumenism as being “pan-heresy”. Therefore, the accusations brought by opponents of the Council in Crete are unjust, irresponsible, and harmful for the unity of the Church.

The Orthodox Church considers that in the dialogue with other Christians it brings exactly the witness of the One Church of Christ, from which they separated over time by deviation from Orthodox faith. Of course, no Orthodox Christian is ever obliged to carry dialogues or to cooperate with other Christians if he or she is afraid of losing the Orthodox faith. At the same time, it is unfair to consider that all Orthodox Christians who carry theological dialogues and cooperate in practical matters in society with Christians of other confessions are traitors of Orthodoxy. A peacemaker Orthodox Christian can remain faithful to Orthodoxy without becoming fanatic, if he or she confesses Orthodox faith in dialogue with other Christians, provided he or she makes no compromise.

From an Orthodox point of view, lucid ecumenism does not represent a dogma of faith, but a spiritual attitude of dialogue and cooperation between Christians, instead of controversy full of confessional hate and of violent confrontation, which has been manifested for several centuries during the history of Christianity...Although taking part in this movement of dialogue among Christians of different confessions, the Orthodox Church considered that the unity of non-Orthodox Christians divided among themselves over time can be restored only on the basis of the faith of the undivided Church of Christ, which is the Orthodox Church, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that we confess in the Orthodox (Nicene-Constantinopolitan) Creed.

Furthermore, the Holy Synod noted with surprise the uncanonical and aggressive attitude of certain theologians and clerics (priests and hierarchs) from two sister Orthodox Churches, who came in dioceses of the Romanian Patriarchate in order to criticise its hierarchy and to instigate some clergy and faithful to disobey the hierarchs of our Church. For this reason, the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church has decided to inform the Primates of the sister Orthodox Churches (Moscow Patriarchate and the Orthodox Church of Greece) about the situations in which some of their priests and hierarchs carry out uncanonically aggressive and turbulent activities in the dioceses of the Romanian Patriarchate, inciting to disobedience, rebellion and separation.

The clergy, monastics and lay people involved in actions of rebellion and denigration of the Council in Crete, ignoring the fact that a Synod can be judged only by another Synod, will be called to order by peaceful dialogue and canonical explanation about the gravity of disunion and of disturbing the peace and unity of the Church. In the same manner, disciplinary administrative and canonical sanctions will be applied in order to bring to order clerics, monastics and lay people who persist in their state of rebellion and disunion, troubling the peace and unity of the Church.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Orthodoxjay1
Upvote 0

Daniel Bodnar

Member
Jul 29, 2016
23
13
47
Vancouver, Canada
✟9,348.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Widowed
Well, the problem is the letter itself is not as temperate as Fordham suggests. The Fordham piece seems a bit more like damage control.

But the ins and outs are not done yet, so we gotta keep praying

This is what they found (as well questions of mine that prevent me from acknowledging that EP's letter is OK):

1. Contrary to what many have falsely suggested, the Ecumenical Patriarch is not transgressing the independence of the Church of Greece; he is following proper protocol by asking Greece to address a problem of its clergy.

Is that right? But then what does this phrase mean: "The Ecumenical Patriarchate will address the problem that has emerged by severing ecclesiastical and sacramental communion with them?" Does it comply with the protocol and the Holy Canons?

2. The Ecumenical Patriarch is not requesting excommunication; he is recommending admonishment.

Well, doesn't he threaten to excommunicate them by himself?

3. The Ecumenical Patriarch is not criticizing opposition to the council; he acknowledges that reception and critical appraisal is vital in any conciliar decree and document.

Where it is said so? Maybe this statement is meant: "We responsibly denounce the above with painful soul and agonizing heart before this impious matter, which exceeds the right to free expression of constructive opinion, assumes larger and irreconcilable dimensions..."? Is it all? Is it about the vital role of reception and critical appraisal, really?

4. Rather, the Patriarch is critical of scandal and division aroused by a small group of clerics who are deliberately trying to sow resistance to the Council among the faithful in other autocephalous churches.

As the letter says, "a delegation led by the aforementioned clergyman has already visited the Most Holy Orthodox Churches of Bulgaria and Georgia, as well as the ecclesiastical Eparchy of Moldavia, creating turmoil among the faithful there and regrettably being received by brother Primates and Hierarchs of these Churches". So why EP has decided to interfere? Has any Autocephalous Church expressed concern over Greek Metropolitans visiting its clergy?

5. There is a genuine irony at play by those who accuse the Holy and Great Synod of heresy on the basis of ecumenism. By declaring the synod heretical, these rogue clerics are cutting themselves off from the communion of their own Church of Greece, which participated in the Council.

Moreover, have the Metropolitans mentioned by the Ecumenical Patriarch really called the Council as heretical? It seems to me that they criticize the Council for not condemning ecumenism (and thus clearing the path to it), but not for adoption a heresy itself. Anyway, as it was noted above, even St. Cyril was respectful toward Nestorius as a bishop, even when pointing out how much of a heretic he was. Thus, as long as Metropolitans Seraphim and Amvrosios aren't anathemized and commemorate Archbishop Hieronimus II as their Primate, they keep being in communion with the Church of Greece. There is no contradiction or paradox.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,550
20,063
41
Earth
✟1,464,124.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
oh I am not a fan of the letter either, I was just saying that as much as we might dislike it, or dislike what those who dislike it are saying, we gotta prayerfully avoid any break.

and personally, I agree with your assessments
 
Upvote 0

mcarmichael

Novice
Sep 8, 2014
862
256
✟56,961.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
We recall this ecclesiological and canonical principle–that matters are to be examined and decided upon synodically–which is the cornerstone of the life, saving mission, and witness of our Orthodox Church in the world, for both Your Very Beloved and Most-Diligent Eminence and the Most Holy Church of Greece, and, in light of our responsibility as Ecumenical Patriarch and President of the Holy and Great Council which assembled in Crete, and as guardian of the dogmatic and canonical order of the Eastern Church, we call Your attention to the following serious issue which troubles us personally together with the Synod of the Mother Church.

The way I understood it, he does have the power to call a council, so idk what this is about.
 
Upvote 0

Constantine the Sinner

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2016
2,059
676
United States
✟31,259.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Celibate
The way I understood it, he does have the power to call a council, so idk what this is about.
Only if there is a valid reason given (addressing a serious heresy) and the representation is proper (he set it up so each autocephephalous church gets a vote and each has equal representation, which is very wrong, it should be set up so each bishop gets a vote).
 
Upvote 0
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,273
Central California
✟274,079.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
IMG_0105.JPG
Ecumenical Patriarch says those who "rebel" against the Council of Crete must be dealt with


 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,550
20,063
41
Earth
✟1,464,124.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

gzt

The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years
Jul 14, 2004
10,598
1,869
Abolish ICE
Visit site
✟117,393.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
  • Like
Reactions: Isaac32
Upvote 0
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,273
Central California
✟274,079.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
21,561
12,109
58
Sydney, Straya
✟1,178,965.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Daniel Bodnar

Member
Jul 29, 2016
23
13
47
Vancouver, Canada
✟9,348.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Widowed
Here is a more accurate translation of the EPsletter.

Panorthodox Synod : ΤΗΕ TRUE TRASLATION OF LETTER (IN ENGLISH) OF ECUMENICAL PATRIARCH TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF ATHENS

Don't fall for fake news. The devil loves lies.

Unfortunately, it has been already discussed here, just a dozen posts above: Ecumenical Patriarch says those who "rebel" against the Council of Crete must be dealt with.
Another translation of the letter can hardly dispel concerns over its content and canonical meaning. So, your "fake news" warning looks quite dumb...
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,550
20,063
41
Earth
✟1,464,124.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums