Eating swine & other unclean animals is a work of the flesh

[stuart lawrence]

All food is clean
Rom14:20

 

[Ken Rank]

I just know that the place where I read about eating certain types of foods, or anything else mentioned in Levitical law 76 Things Banned in Leviticus (and their penalties) - ***Dave Does the Blog is not focused on in the New Testament when Jesus taught his disciples, nor in the letters written by the apostles. It seems that those are not the things we're to be focusing on now.

That is your call as to whether or not they are for you. I will say this... the letter in Acts 15 is always pointed to as "for us." Yet... do you make sure you avoid blood, things strangled? Or... does the Acts 15 letter tell you not to kill? Or not to steal? See... it isn't a complete list.. it was only meant to be the place to start and we were expected to go and learn the rest. And additional proof of that is in Acts 15:21 which tells those the letter went to, basically... to go hear Moses (an idiomatic reference to God's law) read in the synagogues on the Sabbath. The Acts 15 letter was a place to begin, not the finish line.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Nope, not going to give up my baby back ribs, snow crab legs, or mussels in white wine sauce!

I eat it all. Absolutely clear conscience before God.
I enjoy my Pork, chicken, sushi, lobster, steak, frog legs, squid, sometimes all at the same times and topped with cheese on top just for good measure.... Jews wont steal my food that's for sure lol =)

That's given lol.....
Nor am I giving up these and hope they will be available in heaven:

..............

..........................................

 

[Aldebaran]

That is your call as to whether or not they are for you. I will say this... the letter in Acts 15 is always pointed to as "for us." Yet... do you make sure you avoid blood, things strangled? Or... does the Acts 15 letter tell you not to kill? Or not to steal? See... it isn't a complete list.. it was only meant to be the place to start and we were expected to go and learn the rest. And additional proof of that is in Acts 15:21 which tells those the letter went to, basically... to go hear Moses (an idiomatic reference to God's law) read in the synagogues on the Sabbath. The Acts 15 letter was a place to begin, not the finish line.

Then when we go back to the book of Leviticus, what parts should we still follow, and which ones don't? How do we know?

 

[stuart lawrence]

That is your call as to whether or not they are for you. I will say this... the letter in Acts 15 is always pointed to as "for us." Yet... do you make sure you avoid blood, things strangled? Or... does the Acts 15 letter tell you not to kill? Or not to steal? See... it isn't a complete list.. it was only meant to be the place to start and we were expected to go and learn the rest. And additional proof of that is in Acts 15:19 which tells those the letter went to, basically... to go hear Moses (an idiomatic reference to God's law) read in the synagogues on the Sabbath. The Acts 15 letter was a place to begin, not the finish line.

So acts ch 15 was only a start with those four laws? Gentiles were free to murder, steal, commit adultery, covet, bear false witness until they went away and learnt those laws?
Doesn't sound right to me!
And years later the church reaffirmed they only asked gentiles to follow those four laws( acts ch21) so they hadn't expected them to go and learn others

 

[stuart lawrence]

Acts ch15 concerned Jewish laws not written on the mind and placed on the heart of every believer.
IE law that was:
Don't murder, steal, commit adultery, covet etc
Paul started Romans ch14 by speaking of what he termed disputable matters. One of which was his view all food us clean, but others thought not. This law therefore was not already written in the mind and placed on the heart of believers. Those that were didn't need to be mentioned in Acts ch15
Sexual immorality was mentioned to remind people it was wrong in any form.
The other three laws are widely believed to have been given to appease Jewish legalists who had become christians

 

[nChrist]

1 Timothy 4:4-5 KJV For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

 

[Ken Rank]

Then when we go back to the book of Leviticus, what parts should we still follow, and which ones don't? How do we know?

This is actually a far more simpler question than most Christians realize....

The Torah (law) was known before Sinai. I can prove that... I can give about 20 examples of commandments you might think are from Sinai forward (some being fairly obscure), that exist before Sinai. What happened at Sinai was the law was placed in writing. Not only that, but Israel was about to become a nation. So, God ADDED the judgements, punishments, and ability to prosecute because the Torah would be used by Israel as their "rule of law," their "constitution" if you will.

So, when it comes to punishments, things tied to the Temple, decisions being made when you are in authority... we can't do any of that now because we are in the nations under secular rule. When Israel was in the land with a king... they could do those things, but not once they were exiled. Even today, Judah (the Jews) are in the land but it is a secular country.

So what can you do? All you can do and if you fall short you fall short... isn't that why Messiah gave himself, so when we do fall short he not only there to pick us up but act as our advocate?

There are a number of things called "law" in the NT... the law of sin and death (which is the punishment passed from Adam to us), the law of God... but we also have the law of the Jews (which is law ADDED to God's law), and we have the word "law" used when the context is speaking only about aspects of God's law. For example, Col. 2:14 was quoted (nailing the ordinances to the cross). Is that saying that "love God" or "do not steal" was nailed to the cross? Of course not... so not all the law was nailed to the cross. What was? The guilty verdict... that part of the law that said we don't measure up and deserve death... that is what stood against us, that is what messiah overcame and that is what was nailed to the cross.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Romans 14:14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[Ken Rank]

1 Timothy 4:4-5 KJV For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

The "word of God" in that day was not the NT... that would be another 150 years. The word of God in that day was the Torah and Prophets. So that which was set apart to eat or made holy to eat (sanctified) in the verse you quote was that which was called food. If the Word of God in that day did not view pork as food than that verse is not saying it now is because it is relying on "the word of God" at that time... again, the Torah and prophets.

Otherwise what... the God who doesn't change has not changed His mind and as long as you pray over it, bat dung mixed with weasel urine is now acceptable for human consumption? I am not trying to be gross... just trying to make a point.

But... do as you are convinced in your own mind as will I. Blessings.

 

[Ken Rank]

1 Timothy 4:4-5 KJV For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

As I just wrote another... the key is 'word of God.' There was no NT for another 150 years. If the reference is to the written word... which I believe it is... then "Word of God" is the Torah and Prophets." And since that is the case, that which has been sanctified (set apart) by God as food... is what is listed in the Torah as food. And not everything is food no matter how long you pray over it.

 

[Dkh587]

Col 2:13-17 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

A closer look at context, while also reading from the beginning of the chapter, will reveal that:

1. our death penalty is what was nailed to the cross
2. Paul is writing to people who KEEP sabbath and the food laws

Paul was encouraging them to not let the pagans judge them for keeping them. And he also said that these things ARE a shadow of things to come. Meaning, many things still have to take place that are foreshadowed in the Sabbath, Holy Days, and in the food & drink commandments.

Paul was NOT writing to people who were not keeping the Sabbath, and he wasn't writing to people eating pork and unclean animals.

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

Next time you see pig , just go and stab it and nomnomnom bacon

Acts 10:13-15

 

[stuart lawrence]

Accept him who's faith is weak without passing judgement in disputable matters
Rom14:1

Examples of disputable matters/ you can hold to either view:

One man considers one day more sacred/ holy than another, another man considers everyday alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind
Rom14:5
All food is clean verse20

 

[Dkh587]

Romans 14:14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Thanks for sharing.

This chapter of Romans is commonly used to try to teach that it's okay for believers to eat unclean animals.

If you look closer, in context, you will see that the subject is people disputing over eating meat & veggies, versus people eating vegetables only.

You see, for the Apostles, when they talk about meat/food, they're talking about CLEAN meat. Swine and other unclean animals are not food/meat for consumption.

So the dispute is that some people eat clean meat & veggies, vs people who don't eat clean meat and eat veggies only.

God/Christ/The Holy Spirit/the Prophets/the Apostles will not teach and lead us to do things that are contrary to God's law, such as eating unclean animals.

That is why we must understand God's law, and know what it says, that way we can make sure what what we THINK they are teaching, is lining up with God's law.

If God says, don't defile yourselves and eat unclean animals, and an apostle seems to suggest that it's now okay to eat unclean animals, we need to make sure that we understand their words in the proper context, because we must match their words to God's words, and not the other way around.

 

[Albion]

A closer look at context, while also reading from the beginning of the chapter, will reveal that:

1. our death penalty is what was nailed to the cross
2. Paul is writing to people who KEEP sabbath and the food laws

Paul was encouraging them to not let the pagans judge them for keeping them. And he also said that these things ARE a shadow of things to come. Meaning, many things still have to take place that are foreshadowed in the Sabbath, Holy Days, and in the food & drink commandments.

Paul was NOT writing to people who were not keeping the Sabbath, and he wasn't writing to people eating pork and unclean animals.

I don't think that can stand. Consider this commentary from Christian Classics Ethereal Library:

He admonishes the Colossians to recognize, what he had treated of in a general way, as applicable to themselves, which is by far the most effectual way of teaching. Farther, as they were Gentiles when they were converted to Christ, he takes occasion from this to shew them how absurd it is to pass over from Christ to the ceremonies of Moses. Ye were, says he, dead in Uncircumcision.

 

[nChrist]

Galatians 2:19-21 KJV For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Dkh587]

I don't think that can stand. Consider this commentary from Christian Classics Ethereal Library:

Let me post the whole section of Colossians 2:

Colossians 2:8-17

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Now, do you see how he starts this section off? He warns to not let men spoil them through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, and after the rudiments of the world.

Let me ask you this: do you think the above mentioned applies to God's commandments?

God's law is not philosophy and vain deceit. God's law is not traditions of men. God's law is not rudiments of the world!

These people are trying to ruin the Colossians using these things, NOT the word of God!

The people Paul is warning about are NOT people who are saying "You should keep the Sabbath & Holy Days". They're people that are trying to turn them away from Christ & God.

Do you see the word "Therefore" in verse 16? That means that it is connected to the previous verse. All the things that Paul has previously has been discussing are related to this verse.

We can't just rip verse 16 out of context, and make a doctrine around that. We must look at the previous verses, especially when you see the word "therefore".

The Colossians were keeping the Sabbath & holy days & food laws, and outsiders were judging/condemning them and trying to lead them away from doing so.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

If God says, don't defile yourselves and eat unclean animals, and an apostle seems to say "it's okay, we can eat pig now", we need to make sure that we understand their words in the proper context, because we must match their words to God's words, and not the other way around.

Gal. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 

[Dkh587]

Gal. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Thank you for sharing these verses.

I don't see how they have anything to do with what I posted. I didn't say we are righteous/justified through the law. We are righteous through the Messiah. That doesn't mean it's now okay to break God's commandments and start eating unclean animals and making ourselves unclean.

Paul warned us about uncleanness! One way to be unclean is to eat unclean animals.

(refer back to the original thread post)