1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Eastern Orthodox relationship with Jews?

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by Dietrich Johnson, Apr 7, 2022.

  1. Dietrich Johnson

    Dietrich Johnson Member

    116
    +31
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I was reading an article written by a Protestant author who wrote the following: "Protestant Christianity accomplished the great task of turning many segments of Christendom away from the Jew-hatred of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy to philo-Semitism over a 300-year period to become the dominant view within evangelicalism in our day".

    What is the Eastern Orthodox perspective on this quotation? To what extent is this accurate?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

    +7,318
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    There is likely no "Eastern Orthodox perspective on this quotation". Early on in Christian history and for centuries after there was animosity between Jews and Christians. But I object to the commenter's description of protestantism having turned anyone at all away from it. For hundreds of years there has been tolerance between Christianity and Judaism and it has nothing to do with protestantism. But there is definitely a recent form of "philo-Semitism" among some protestant groups having nothing to do with Christianity. Some of their leaders speak of Jews as if Christianity doesn't even matter.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  3. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,010
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    it’s just an assertion. I don’t know the answer but you should have facts to back up such a claim.
     
  4. Justin-H.S.

    Justin-H.S. New Wineskins

    +1,103
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Martin Luther said otherwise.

    Modern Protestantism’s jew-philia stems from the Zionist backing of the Scofield Reference bible in the 19th century and the subsequent image of “Judeo-Christianity” that it birthed. Prior to that the term “Judeo-Christian” hadn’t existed in the way it does now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

    +9,908
    Australia
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I suspect a lot of Protestant support (in the USA) for Zionism stems from the false "rapture" theology that has taken hold among many of them. They actively support the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem so that Christ will return and they will be 'taken up' without experiencing death, or so they believe. It isn't out of a love for Jews but a desire to cheat death.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  6. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,010
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    it’s also based on a misinterpretation of God calling Abraham.
     
  7. Justin-H.S.

    Justin-H.S. New Wineskins

    +1,103
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Since not all Protestants are dispensationalists,

    Another point to the low-church Protestant obsession with Judaism is that they’re unconsciously (or consciously) realizing their tradition is new, so they are grasping for something ancient to attach themselves to. Since the Protestants before them already poisoned the well for ancient Christianity (like Roman Cathlolicism), they believe Judaism is the only legitimate ancient faith they can tie themselves to. So, these are the ones who might blow a shofar before church or have a seder meal at Easter. They might even attempt to speak Hebrew and call God “Yahushawa” or whatever their particular group deems is the proper pronunciation.

    There’s a term called “weeabo” that describes this obsession except it’s for Jewish culture instead of Japanese, but both come from a lack of cultural foundation in modern times.

    My wife and I agreed that her parents fall under this category although not quite as extreme as I described above.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  8. Andrew.H

    Andrew.H Member

    41
    +59
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Divorced
    I have noticed while branching out on my own online that quite a few protestant groups adopt strict Jewish customs and observances very proudly, as though they found the true uncorrupted foundational tradition protestantism lacked.

    Dispensationalism itself also is so deeply rooted that it influences our foreign policy decisions.

    Those adopting it though, don't seem to realize just how novel it is with it coming into being in the 19th century. I avoided the topic with my family until a conversation inevitably went that way, specifically because of how integral this theory is to modern protestant theology. I wanted to tell them the truth of these things, but doing so was also potentially devastating.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  9. Till Schilling

    Till Schilling Member

    184
    +121
    Switzerland
    Protestant
    Married
    Antijudaism and later antisemitism has been - and remains to be - a problem in all denominations and confessions. Nevertheless the historical record is quite obvious: the emancipation of Jews in protestant countries like the Netherlands, Britain, Scandinavia and- prior to the 1930s - also Germany did in general occur much earlier than in Catholic or Orthodox countries. Other than France which it could be argued wasn’t really a Catholic country anymore after the revolution.

    As for why this was so I tend to believe that reasons were mainly economical. It was predominantly in those countries that the enlightenment had its influence, which also led to new technologies, new ways of commerce and eventually the industrial revolution. Russia - to take the extreme on the other hand - was in the 19th century still predominantly an agrarian country and economy. Whose peasants were not much more than slaves themselves.

    Of course the interesting questions this leads to is: why did Northern and North-Western Europe develop faster than Southern and Eastern Europe? And was this progress good? Or rather what of it was good and what was maybe not?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  10. Justin-H.S.

    Justin-H.S. New Wineskins

    +1,103
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    These are good questions to ask because so many presuppose that progress is inherently good due to the Darwinian mindset that everything evolves for the better that underlies the majority of people's thinking. They never stop to think "Is this progression good, and should we proceed in this direction?" Rather, a loud mouth proclaims that it is "good" and everyone else falls in line: IE - Russia's invasion of Ukraine is "good" amongst Russians, while NATO's eastward encroachment of Russia is "good" among Westerners. The Sin of Cain always follows us.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  11. Dietrich Johnson

    Dietrich Johnson Member

    116
    +31
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Can you elaborate?
     
  12. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,010
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    the Israel is the Church, and Abraham’s descendants are those who follow in his faith. it isn’t the Jewish nation-state in the Middle East.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  13. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding Supporter

    +19,063
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    Relationships don't start off well when one group (Jews) is persecuting and killing the other group.
    And do not begin to say to yourselves, "We have Abraham as our father." For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. - John the Baptist​
    We should sue "Israel" for copyright infringement. ;)
     
  14. Dietrich Johnson

    Dietrich Johnson Member

    116
    +31
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    What are the best scriptures to read to better understand this concept ("the Israel is the Church")?
     
  15. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding Supporter

    +19,063
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    Although I don't have the scriptures memorized, the concept is replete throughout the New Testament. I myself didn't fully "get it" until I read a book called A Second Look At The Second Coming. I'd recommend it if you're interested. It deals mainly with the idea of the rapture and the state of Israel, but a section of the book explains the Church as Israel with lots of scripture citations. (I'd do the work and give them to you, but the book was loaned to me, I don't have a copy here, sorry. :))
     
  16. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,010
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    yep

    haha, indeed
     
  17. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,010
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Galatians 6
     
  18. Justin-H.S.

    Justin-H.S. New Wineskins

    +1,103
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    The Orthodox way would be to already believe that we are Israel, and you’d encounter it everywhere in the scriptures. The Protestant way would be to read the scriptures to find what to believe, and since people are diverse with different baggage, you end up with many different beliefs.
     
  19. Trusting in Him

    Trusting in Him Well-Known Member

    730
    +425
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I don't read any specifics in the bible suggesting that only Christian's, or Jews will be those included in the rapture, but the bible suggest to me that those who truly love the Lord, and have a Living relationship with Him and are alive at the time of the rapture, will be those which will be raptured. To suggest otherwise without scriptural proof does not have any basis, without God's supporting such a suggestion.

    I am one of those Christian who is very interested in the types, anti types and figures in both the old and new testaments and historically in many cases such understanding have some of there understanding rooted in Jewish understanding. There are many figures of speech used in the new testament, which are Jewish in origin and are not properly understood by those who are not interesting in understanding the background to these original figures of speech.

    Sometimes we need wisdom to see and properly evaluate these things, to reject biblical understanding, because we don't like where it came from is not always wise. A lot of new testament teaching, particularly by paul is based on old testament teaching and reasoning. It's very helpful to uderstand much of the original basis where this comes from. I can therefore recommend the book "Figures of speech used in the Bible" by Bullinger.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
  20. Andrew.H

    Andrew.H Member

    41
    +59
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Divorced

     
Loading...