Easter Origins Pagan?

Is easter pagan

  • yes

    Votes: 13 27.1%
  • no

    Votes: 35 72.9%

  • Total voters
    48

facundo

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So I've been investigating the easter origins and I found a super through e-book that is pretty referenced. It seems that there is no question that Easter is pagan in its origins and established by Constantine. Here is the ebook for reference.

Ishtar, asotore, estore all had a role to play. They are all basically the same God ashtoreth.

Then I also found this video this video.

I guess my question is how can anyone debate that easter is not pagan?
 

dzheremi

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I guess my question is how can anyone debate that easter is not pagan?

Because some of us know Christian history not just from YouTube videos but from primary sources of the people that lived it and shaped it.

You are new here, so there's no way you could know this, but this question comes up every Easter (and Christmas, and any other holiday that people form conspiracies about the 'true' origins of), and the answer is still no, and will always be no because there's literally no evidence for it, and what is presented as 'evidence' is a really weak argument from the supposed origins of the word "Easter" in English, when most people outside of the English-speaking world don't call it that and have never called it that, or anything related to that.
 
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JulieB67

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Yeah, it's pretty bad that the word Easter got slipped into the translation anyway. We all know it's pashcha/passover and Christ became our Passover. The real Passover is 14 days after the spring equinox which is the Hebrew beginning of the year and yet most Christians today celebrate Easter with his resurrection. Traditions of men sometimes take over and continue to get handed down in the process.
 
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Andrew.H

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All pagan religions contain elements of truth, or they would not have any use by Satan. Christianity is the fullness of those truths in their proper setting, without the misdirection of the evil one. The build up to spring is the time for the longing for a restoration to life and a defeat of death. Christ is the fulfillment of that longing.

There's some elements to chew on in here, use it as a spring board to answer your questions. The Orthodox regard Pascha as a movable feast by the way.
Pascha - OrthodoxWiki
 
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Tolworth John

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how can anyone debate that easter is not pagan?

Simple. Jesus is the Son of God and he died and rose again around the time of the Jewish passover feat, this feast, like the sacrifical system points towards Jesus.

That all religeons decend from the knowledge of a creator God through the scattering of people after babel is confirmed by the similarities.
Keep your eyes on the plot, Jesus saves, not facky ideas about the pagan influence on Christianity.
 
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Athanasius377

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This "stuff" is no more history than Star Wars. Its the brainchild of a rather disturbed Scottish churchman by the name of Alexander Hislop. Easter simply comes to us from the German Oestern. Nothing more. Should Easter be called Pascha, you bet. That said stick to real history like the Bible and not the whims of a deranged soul like His Slop. Its a dumpster fire.

A.
 
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GodLovesCats

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I guess my question is how can anyone debate that easter is not pagan?

Easily, in fact. You have to investigate the origins of Easter to figure out it had nothing to do with Jesus at all and was named after a fake God. It is a celebration of spring's arrival, everything being new. Only how they celebrate it - the bunny hiding colored eggs, chocolate in gift baskets, and forcing lily bulbs to bloom early - is pagan, not the simple fact that we celebrate the beginning of spring. Perhaps we could make up a Christian-centered way to mark the spring equinox, starting with actually doing it on the correct date. It makes no sense to me that people have to celebrate the spring equinox ~4 weeks later, when Jesus is the only Lamb who matters.
 
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GodLovesCats

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Yeah, it's pretty bad that the word Easter got slipped into the translation anyway. We all know it's Pascha/Passover and Christ became our Passover. The real Passover is 14 days after the spring equinox which is the Hebrew beginning of the year and yet most Christians today celebrate Easter with his resurrection. Traditions of men sometimes take over and continue to get handed down in the process.

I could never figure out what that 14 days thing was about. The Resurrection obviously did not happen 14 days after the Crucifixion. We all know that. Fourteen days from when? College-educated Bible experts do not even agree on the day of the week Jesus died.
 
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Sparagmos

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Because some of us know Christian history not just from YouTube videos but from primary sources of the people that lived it and shaped it.

You are new here, so there's no way you could know this, but this question comes up every Easter (and Christmas, and any other holiday that people form conspiracies about the 'true' origins of), and the answer is still no, and will always be no because there's literally no evidence for it, and what is presented as 'evidence' is a really weak argument from the supposed origins of the word "Easter" in English, when most people outside of the English-speaking world don't call it that and have never called it that, or anything related to that.
I don’t think it takes away from the Christian celebration of Christ’s resurrection to recognize that this celebration was blended with pagan spring /fertility celebrations by the church in an effort to let people hold on to some beloved customs when converting them to Christianity. The pagan celebrations were outlawed and to ease the transition, some of the symbols were given new meanings. The church started handing out eggs, for instance, because it was one of these customs. There is no question that the hare and eggs were pagan fertility symbols. The word Easter certainly appears to come from Ostara, and if not, then where?

Religious rituals are always drawn from already existing rituals, customs, and symbols.
 
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Sparagmos

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This "stuff" is no more history than Star Wars. Its the brainchild of a rather disturbed Scottish churchman by the name of Alexander Hislop. Easter simply comes to us from the German Oestern. Nothing more. Should Easter be called Pascha, you bet. That said stick to real history like the Bible and not the whims of a deranged soul like His Slop. Its a dumpster fire.

A.
What about the eggs and the bunnies though?
 
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Athanasius377

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What about the eggs and the bunnies though?
The eggs are of uncertain origin. Some say they come from Persian custom. All I know is they aren’t a huge deal in my circles but in the Eastern Orthodox Church I attended in college where they were usually painted red with a cross on it. I have heard several reasons why folks in EO do this. Honestly I have no idea. My guess it has one thing to do with fasting from eggs during EO lent.

As to bunnies I’m not sure where that came up either. I dislike the whole idea of the Easter bunny.
 
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Athanasius377

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I don’t think it takes away from the Christian celebration of Christ’s resurrection to recognize that this celebration was blended with pagan spring /fertility celebrations by the church in an effort to let people hold on to some beloved customs when converting them to Christianity. The pagan celebrations were outlawed and to ease the transition, some of the symbols were given new meanings. The church started handing out eggs, for instance, because it was one of these customs. There is no question that the hare and eggs were pagan fertility symbols. The word Easter certainly appears to come from Ostara, and if not, then where?

Religious rituals are always drawn from already existing rituals, customs, and symbols.
I would also mention the only reference to this fertility goddess comes from the historian the Venerable Bede in the 8th century AD.
 
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dzheremi

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I don’t think it takes away from the Christian celebration of Christ’s resurrection to recognize that this celebration was blended with pagan spring /fertility celebrations by the church in an effort to let people hold on to some beloved customs when converting them to Christianity.

That may be true with regard to the Western Church only, but it has nothing at all to do with Pascha/Easter calculations, because the date of that holiday was historically set by the Church of Alexandria, according to the indigenous (Coptic) calendar which we still use. The pre-Christian Spring festival of the Egyptians (all of them, regardless of religion), Sham en-Nessim, is still a national holiday in modern Egypt, but was with the Christianization of Egypt fixed by the Church to the first Monday after Pascha, and has been kept there ever since.

So no, they weren't "blended together", and have been always very consciously and purposely kept on separate days so as to maintain that they not the same thing, though obviously the Christian observance of the same festival has been given overt Christian symbolism that isn't shared by the non-Christian population.

The word Easter certainly appears to come from Ostara, and if not, then where?

Why does that even slightly matter if English speakers are basically alone in calling it that? Almost everybody else (save a few oddballs in the South Slavic dialect continuum that call it "Great Day" or similar) who wasn't colonized and converted by Westerners (and several who were, like all the Spanish-speaking peoples of Latin America) calls it some variation of "Pascha". In Spanish it's Pascua, in Russian it's Paskha, in Amharic it's Fasika, in Farsi it's Eid-e Pak, etc. Even in Arabic, where its most standard name is Eid El Qiyama (lit. Festival of Resurrection), you can still call it Baskha, in imitation of Pascha. That's what we do in the Coptic Orthodox Church, in addition to using the full name.

Religious rituals are always drawn from already existing rituals, customs, and symbols.

That's a far cry from saying that they're 'pagan' in some kind of dismissive or conspiratorial fashion. We should be more like St. Justin Martyr and others in evaluating what came before our Lord's incarnation -- i.e., it is good that whatever points to truth in previous philosophies be accepted and baptized, in as far as the Church in her wisdom sees most fit. With that in mind, I'm totally fine with you all enjoying your eggs and such, but to pretend like this has corrupted the celebration of the glorious resurrection of our Lord is just lunacy. They're not even close to comparable, let alone one being the ultimate source of the other. At best, we have some cultural trappings in every place, which are likely to vary wildly. I mean, you're not celebrating Sham en-Nessim, but you don't see me or anyone in the Egyptian Church railing against a false western 'Easter' just because Sham en-Nessim was there first and they share some symbolism.
 
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Sparagmos

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The eggs are of uncertain origin. Some say they come from Persian custom. All I know is they aren’t a huge deal in my circles but in the Eastern Orthodox Church I attended in college where they were usually painted red with a cross on it. I have heard several reasons why folks in EO do this. Honestly I have no idea. My guess it has one thing to do with fasting from eggs during EO lent.

As to bunnies I’m not sure where that came up either. I dislike the whole idea of the Easter bunny.
Both the eggs snd the bunny were part of pagan spring fertility celebrations (the symbolism is pretty obvious) that existed before Christianity. I don’t think it’s debatable that they were incorporated into the Christian holiday.
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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Pascha.
It’s called Pascha.
It’s a transliteration of the Greek word, which is itself a transliteration of the Aramaic pascha, from the Hebrew pesach meaning Passover.
The West calls it Easter but it’s actually called Pascha.
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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Both the eggs snd the bunny were part of pagan spring fertility celebrations (the symbolism is pretty obvious) that existed before Christianity. I don’t think it’s debatable that they were incorporated into the Christian holiday.
No, the Paschal Eggs from St Mary Magdalene (https://orthodoxwiki.org/Mary_Magdalene) :
“According to tradition, during a dinner with the emperor Tiberius Caesar, Mary Magdalene was speaking about Christ's Resurrection. Caesar scoffed at her, saying that a man could rise from the dead no more than the egg in her hand could turn red. Immediately, the egg turned red. Because of this, icons of Mary Magdalene sometimes depict her holding a red egg. Also, this is believed to be an explanation for dyeing eggs red at Pascha.”
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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That may be true with regard to the Western Church only, but it has nothing at all to do with Pascha/Easter calculations, because the date of that holiday was historically set by the Church of Alexandria, according to the indigenous (Coptic) calendar which we still use. The pre-Christian Spring festival of the Egyptians (all of them, regardless of religion), Sham en-Nessim, is still a national holiday in modern Egypt, but was with the Christianization of Egypt fixed by the Church to the first Monday after Pascha, and has been kept there ever since.

So no, they weren't "blended together", and have been always very consciously and purposely kept on separate days so as to maintain that they not the same thing, though obviously the Christian observance of the same festival has been given overt Christian symbolism that isn't shared by the non-Christian population.



Why does that even slightly matter if English speakers are basically alone in calling it that? Almost everybody else (save a few oddballs in the South Slavic dialect continuum that call it "Great Day" or similar) who wasn't colonized and converted by Westerners (and several who were, like all the Spanish-speaking peoples of Latin America) calls it some variation of "Pascha". In Spanish it's Pascua, in Russian it's Paskha, in Amharic it's Fasika, in Farsi it's Eid-e Pak, etc. Even in Arabic, where its most standard name is Eid El Qiyama (lit. Festival of Resurrection), you can still call it Baskha, in imitation of Pascha. That's what we do in the Coptic Orthodox Church, in addition to using the full name.



That's a far cry from saying that they're 'pagan' in some kind of dismissive or conspiratorial fashion. We should be more like St. Justin Martyr and others in evaluating what came before our Lord's incarnation -- i.e., it is good that whatever points to truth in previous philosophies be accepted and baptized, in as far as the Church in her wisdom sees most fit. With that in mind, I'm totally fine with you all enjoying your eggs and such, but to pretend like this has corrupted the celebration of the glorious resurrection of our Lord is just lunacy. They're not even close to comparable, let alone one being the ultimate source of the other. At best, we have some cultural trappings in every place, which are likely to vary wildly. I mean, you're not celebrating Sham en-Nessim, but you don't see me or anyone in the Egyptian Church railing against a false western 'Easter' just because Sham en-Nessim was there first and they share some symbolism.
I just think it’s funny how everyone seems to forget the Eastern Church even exists.
Go figure.
:dontcare:
 
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com7fy8

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I guess my question is
Welcome to Christian Forums :prayer::):wave:^_^

Well, I was not one of those people who first decided to have eggs and the bunny on Easter. So, no way can I know what was going on in their minds.

But all along there have been false versions of Christianity. There is false church stuff which goes all the way back to when Jesus started His real church.
 
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dzheremi

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I just think it’s funny how everyone seems to forget the Eastern Church even exists.
Go figure.
:dontcare:

Funny the first five hundred times, maybe...but I would expect a little better on the Christian History subforum in particular. Oh well. I probably wouldn't know any of that if I wasn't Coptic anyway (hadn't ever heard of Sham en-Nessim before), so I hope it doesn't come across as too harsh. It's just that we get these threads literally every year around Pascha, and again at the Nativity, and again and again and again, and it's always the same stuff.

I joined this site in 2014 or so, but here it is in 2015, and again in 2016, and in 2017, and in 2018... you get the picture.

Enough already. Enough. We get this every year. It's never new, it's never interesting, it's never informative, and most importantly, IT'S NEVER TRUE.
 
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