East Vs West: Are Catholics or Orthodox best suited 4 witnessing 2 Eastern Religion?

[Gxg (G²)]

there is a nun Sister Takako Frances Takagi Ph.D at Notre Dame Seishin University who has done scholarly work on Catholic Inculturation in Japan.

She has an article in the Catholic Historical Review on the topic. I work in a Library (pretty big one) so I will try to get a copy.

Catholic Historical Review
1993, April
pg. 246
Inculturation and Adaptation in Japan before and after Vatican Council II

Definately will look her up MORE in-depth. I was blessed to be able to investigate a small excerpt from her article entitled Inculturation and Adaptation in Japan before and after Vatican ...

Though I'd be curious as to what she and others have to say about inculturation in the vast area of Asia in general rather than solely within Japan. I'm assuming, by the way, that you're of the mindset that Catholics are better suited for reaching out to those in Eastern Religions than Orthodox...correct? If not, let me know.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yeah I can get a copy. I will read it and comment on it tonight.

Cool. Looking forward to it

 

[Montalban]

Indeed. I'm reminded of how the Gospel was contexualized in other cultures of Asia such as in Chineese culture. There was a book I was able to come across a couple years ago about the first Christian missionaries to China (in the 6th century, I think) - for they were Nestorian Christians from the Middle East. It was really cool to see how they "contextualized" the gospel into terms and images that resonated with the local Taoist, Buddhist, and Confucian cultures. ..

A book I was informed of awhile ago is entitled "The Jesus Sutras"[/URL] by Martin Palmer.

I've read this book.

What they (heretical Christians) did was to so dilute Christianity that it ceased to be Christianity - it became a hybrid of messages - Christian and traditional Chinese.

When Marco Polo traveled to China (See "The Travels") he remarked that there were churches all along the route to China.

A group of Mongols were converted to Christianity too.

I think too you'll find his name is Alopen not Alouben (he is sometimes called Aluoben)

I'd be interested to know what the point of your thread is.

 

[Davidnic]

Though I'd be curious as to what she and others have to say about inculturation in the vast area of Asia in general rather than solely within Japan. I'm assuming, by the way, that you're of the mindset that Catholics are better suited for reaching out to those in Eastern Religions than Orthodox...correct? If not, let me know.

I think, personally, that each place has significant differences. The history of Christianity in Japan, Korea and China (not to mention the rest of Asia) are each vastly different. A good example is how Korea essentially sought out Catholicism on its' own. The history of Catholicism in Korea is unique in all the stories of conversions and missionary work. But, of course there are similarities that can be discussed about the general compatibility of mindset across all areas.

As far as Catholics being better suited to reach out to Eastern religions. I think so due to the adaptability with inculturation shown in other places and in other work in Asia. But there are other factors to consider.

We would be remiss to have this discussion without eventually looking at the compatibility of Western, Eastern and Far Eastern views on Monasticism. And you address some of that in your initial post. It is important to see where each comes from and how they are expressed. Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have different concepts on Monasticism and that will play a role. We also need to look at the Oriental Orthodox.

And how much are we considering India in the discussion. That adds some more thoughts.

 

[Davidnic]

Reading the article. 21 pages and lots of references. I will say I love her writing style. It is obvious she is a good authority on the subject and makes the history fascinating rather than dull.

I will say there are multiple valuable references to the work of the Apostolic Delegate Archbishop Paolo Marella, who seems to have an excellent grasp of Asian cultures and inculturation for his time period (1930's and 1940's; although he lived until the 70's). There is an instruction from Rome in 1936 about aspects of inculturation that should be common domain somewhere that I will try to find.

Some of the more intriguing references are o documents in the Tokyo Archive of the Sisters of Notre Dame. But I will see if there are any copies elsewhere.

One of the things she quotes from Marella:

The true apostle tends rather to free himself of the Western mould he has imported more or less from the country of his birth. This colors his Christianity, and the missionary must recover his Gospel message in its essential purity and this will make it possible for the Gospel to penetrate into its new surroundings.​

To the missionaries of Japan August 27, 1937​

 

[Davidnic]

I would think that with the concept of communion with the saints, where those who are Catholics (both Eastern and Western) stand is a great position for interacting with those in Eastern Religions...so long as its made clear that communion with the saints is not the same as worship of them or choosing to look to anyone other than Christ as it concerns salvation

Yes, as long as that distinction is clear it is a good place to start.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I've read this book.

What they (heretical Christians) did was to so dilute Christianity that it ceased to be Christianity - it became a hybrid of messages - Christian and traditional Chinese.

When Marco Polo traveled to China (See "The Travels") he remarked that there were churches all along the route to China.

A group of Mongols were converted to Christianity too.

I think too you'll find his name is Alopen not Alouben (he is sometimes called Aluoben)

I'd be interested to know what the point of your thread is.

I am interested as well.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'd be interested to know what the point of your thread is.

If you read the OP (alongside following suit with other posters who've shared comments), the point would be very clear. For the subject deals with the appeals of Eastern religions to others....and examining not only the many facets of what that looks like, but also examining the Church/Christiantiy in comparision in order to see if the Church in its history/current state has anything already inherent in it that can be brought up/focused upon when it comes to evagnelism & missions.

As it concerns the issue of Catholicism (both Western and Eastern Rites), there have been many times on
the boards where others have accused Catholicism of being inadequate of aiding others in differing cultures of a specific nature.....and with that, many groups that have often claimed superiority.....notably, those who are in Orthodox circles as well as Protestant ones. Consequently, the question was brought up to Catholics if they believe that Catholicism truly is more adequate for reaching out to those in Eastern Cultures...or if its the case that all camps in the Church (Catholic or not) have something to offer, with opportunity being given to show what specific ways other Catholics may feel that Catholicism is either better suited to reach out to Eastern religions or lacking.

Thus far, there has been (IMHO) a wonderful/civil discussion between myself and others such as and Davidnic or St. Columcille. With Davidnic , there has been more extensive discussion on the issue of how Catholicism seems to be more prepared for handling Eastern cultures due to the practice of inculturation/finding ways to appreciate the cultural views of those in the East when it comes to proclaiming the Gospel to them. There's also the other point discussed in the OP as it concerns simply realizing how much others may look outside of the church to Eastern religions for what the Historical church has already had.....and thus, why its significant for so many in discovering/sharing that with others.

If you have any comments on the points that Davidnic or others have brought up thus far, you're more than welcome to share. Outside of that, however, there really seems to be no need in raising question on what the point of a thread is since others have obviously gotten it/have been engaging it.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think, personally, that each place has significant differences. The history of Christianity in Japan, Korea and China (not to mention the rest of Asia) are each vastly different. A good example is how Korea essentially sought out Catholicism on its' own. The history of Catholicism in Korea is unique in all the stories of conversions and missionary work. But, of course there are similarities that can be discussed about the general compatibility of mindset across all areas.

I'd agree..as with Japan, it seems that there was much more resistance/mistrust with Christianity (alongside the Catholics who brought it) coming that it was in other places such as Korea. And similarities can definately be seen in what often occurred with converts being devoted. When it comes to the myriad of places in Asia and their unique dynamics respective to each cultural area, there are many things that're similar...and some where it will always turn out differently, as it concerns the variations of Eastern culture being reached out to by Catholics.

As far as Catholics being better suited to reach out to Eastern religions. I think so due to the adaptability with inculturation shown in other places and in other work in Asia. But there are other factors to consider.

Understood....though I'm curious as to whether you feel that inculturation has been practiced solely by the Catholics--and if you feel that inculturation has indeed been done by others in differing forms (or even under differing titles), would love to hear anytime.

We would be remiss to have this discussion without eventually looking at the compatibility of Western, Eastern and Far Eastern views on Monasticism. And you address some of that in your initial post. It is important to see where each comes from and how they are expressed.

I'm glad you caught that, as that was one of the intentions of the OP....especially seeing that others in Eastern Religion may have one specific view of monasticism and how its practiced in Christianity...sometimes, to the point of making it seem that all aspects of it are in no way similar to how they view it when in many places of Christianity, its very similar.

Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have different concepts on Monasticism and that will play a role. We also need to look at the Oriental Orthodox.

Was thinking that I probably should have mentioned the issue of how those in Oriental Orthodox differ in their approach....as even within Orthodoxy, there are significant differences between Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy (i.e, Coptic Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Eritrean Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church/ Indian Orthodox Church, Armenian Apostolic ). Personally, I tend to look more favorably upon those in Oriental Orthodoxy when it comes to their expressions of Monasticism.....for they tend to seem better suited tfor reaching those in Eastern thought. But that's just me....

And how much are we considering India in the discussion. That adds some more thoughts.

Agreed. To be clear, India was more than in view when it came to considering them in the discussion on the East....as that was something I'd hoped would be evident when it came to discussion in the OP about Eastern religious views such as Hinduism (which originated in India). With Catholicism, one can consider groups such as the St. Thomas Christian groups called the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church and Syro-Malankara Catholic Church---both of which are Eastern Catholic churches.......and for other references Christians and the Nasrani....and concerning Catholic Christianity interacting with India, of course one can always go to Youtube to find out more on the issue if interested. For some videos one can investigate:

Ancient Christians In India ​

Indian Christians - One of world's ancient Christian community - Syrian Christians of Kerala - 2 ​

St. Thomas Syro Malabar Catholic Church, East Millstone Confirmation dance ​

Malayalam Qurbana. Syro Malankara Catholic ... ​

Syro - Malabar Holy Mass ( Anaphora)​

.

One thing I'm reminded of, as it concerns inculturation, is something that was said best by another in an article entitled Contextualization: Can a Muslim or a Hindu be a Christian ...:

For non-Westerners, the physical and spiritual worlds are not separate; everything in life has a spiritual aspect to it. Westerners separate the two, and can therefore make a distinction between culture and religion, but for most non-Westerners, the two are inseparable.

If we understand this, is the only option for a person in India to cease being a Hindu or a Muslim (Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, etc.) and become a Christian? Or can a person be a Hindu or a Muslim who follows Christ and serves the one true God alone? Before jumping to any conclusions, let’s consider the matter.

Our host in Chandigarh, who oversees several house fellowships, is contextualizing his work in the local Hindu and Sikh cultures. In other words, elements of Hinduism or Sikhism find expression in the lives of these churches. In saying this, I do NOT mean the people worship false gods–the elements of culture present among them are part of their commitment to Christ, rather than compromising it. This leader is sometimes criticized by ministers from more traditional churches, who would like to see him completely break away from anything having an appearance of Hinduism or Sikhism.
​

An example of this contextualization is the name by which the believers call their fellowship. They call their community a satsang, which is a Hindu word for a gathering seeking truth. Some say it is wrong to use this Hindu term, arguing that it is a pagan concept. The brothers and sisters we met, though, believe the use of the word helps those of a Hindu background draw near to God. Another example is the use of a coconut for the Lord’s Supper. Coconuts are often incorporated into Hindu worship; therefore, Hindu-background believers break them open and take the flesh and the milk to represent the body and blood of Christ. Something really neat we learned is that, for Hindus, a coconut means fullness of life. So Christ’s body was broken, and through him comes fullness of life

It can be easy to criticize such contextualization of the gospel in other cultures, and those practicing contextualization have faced their share of attacks. I’m not sure it’s right to criticize, though, until we have had the opportunity to live for an extended period of time in the culture in question, gaining a good understand of the practices and worldview of the people. How else can we understand whether a cultural expression is pagan or not? In our short time with our brothers and sisters in Chandigarh, as far as we could tell we found them to be full of the love of God and committed to Christ and the work of the kingdom.




​

​

Outside of that, As I mentioned earlier, I've written more elsewhere when it came to Jewish believers/Christians in Eastern countries such as India---as seen here in #1. And some references one can investigate on their own:

• Is it Possible to be a Hindu Follower of Christ?

• Ancient Christians in India | Under-Told Stories

• Christians, Muslims, Jews, Europeans in caste system of India

• April 24, 2009 ~ Ancient Christians in India | Religion & Ethics NEWSWEEKLY ...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yes, as long as that distinction is clear it is a good place to start.

Concerning that distinction being made clear, its interesting to see what often occurs when it comes to others within Catholic conditions turning to Eastern Religions and realizing that they don't have look outside of their own camps when they already have rich traditions in contemplative and mystical practices. Even with the appeals of Eastern religions as it concerns things like ancestor worship, I'm thankful for the ways in which it seems Catholics have already had something similar which may appeal to those in Eastern thought when it comes to those before us being considered as around to commune with..


Outside of that, its interesting to consider what often went down when it came to the reality of how those feeling forced to learn of Asian culture often went to lengths that others today may've felt were way too far.

As said there in the article entitled Laputan Logic--St. Buddha of India (for excerpt):

St. Buddha of India
Posted 1698 days ago #

​

Seeing that we're on the subject of Christians masquerading as Buddhists, I thought I should mention that Siddhartha Gautama (563 - 483 BC), the founder of the Buddhist religion, is also a canonised saint of the Catholic church!

While the beatification and sanctification of the Lord Buddha didn't actually happen until the 16th century, the story of his early life was quite popular in Europe during the Middle Ages where he was Christianized under the name of Josaphat, the Indian prince.

The story goes a bit like this:

Once upon a time, in the land of India there lived a brave and powerful king by the name of Abenner. After many years of fretting about having no heir to the throne, he eventually had a son named Josaphat. At the time his son's birth the king was told by a Chaldean astrologer that the infant prince would one day grow up and become a Christian holy man and give up his throne. This news greatly upset the king who was obviously most reluctant to lose his crown prince to this new religion (one which had been making steady gains ever since the pioneering work of the apostle St. Thomas). He therefore ordered that the Christian faith be banned entirely from his kingdom and he locked the prince away in the palace, providing for him every luxury imaginable so he would grow up never having any desire to come into contact with the outside world.

When Josaphat reached adulthood he found the cosseted nature of his existence unbearable and so pleaded with his father to release him from his captivity and let him go outside the palace walls. The king, who could see that his son had grown into a handsome and intelligent young man, did not wish to see him suffer needlessly and so he eventually agreed to his request. The prince quickly learnt that while the world outside was indeed a very beautiful place it was also marred by much sorrow and suffering. Josaphat came into contact with a monk by the name of Barlaam, a hermit from Senaar, who explained to him the causes of this suffering and in very little time converted him to the Christian faith.

King Abenner was, of course, most upset about this turn of events and could see that the prophesy was so very close to being fulfilled. Nevertheless he continued to try to obstruct his son's path. In one instance he attempted to have his son seduced by one of his concubines. The temptress, who was the enslaved daughter of another king, came to Josaphat and appealed to his desire to save souls from eternal damnation. In fact she was receiving her coaching directly from Satan himself so she was well versed in scripture. She promised Josaphat that she would certainly convert to Christianity if only he would just sleep with her that night

"Let this also be thy pleasure, as thou wilt. But fulfil me one other small and trivial desire of mine, if thou art in very truth minded for to save my soul. Keep company with me this one night only, and grant me to revel in thy beauty, and do thou in turn take thy fill of my comeliness. And I give thee my word, that, with daybreak, I will become a Christian, and forsake all the worship of my gods. Not only shalt thou be pardoned for this dealing, but thou shalt receive recompense from thy God because of my salvation..."

— Part XXX of Barlaam and Ioasaph by "John the Monk", translated into Greek possibly from a Georgian version sometime in the 11th century
​

At first this greatly inflamed the young prince's passions but eventually he managed to bring them under control (probably after a cold shower) and he was then able to resolutely reject the beautiful lady's advances. Josaphat had defeated all temptation and remained pure and committed to his new faith. The story was eventually resolved by the King who then chose to become a Christian. After his death, Josaphat ruled the kingdom for a time though having no interest in earthly matters he abdicated the throne and spent the remainder of his days with the old monk Barlaam, living as a religious recluse.

Saint Josaphat preaching Christianity. 12th century Greek manuscript.​

While many of the particulars of the story have changed to suit its new role as Christian hagiography, the story's Buddhist origins remain highly recognisable. Siddhartha Gautama was also a prince whose birth was accompanied with a prophecy that he would become a great holy man but not a king. He was also protected from the outside world by his father but on leaving the palace he also recognised that the world was full of suffering. He sought to pursue an ascetic life and to reach enlightenment but during this process he was subjected to many attempts to deflect him from this path. He was tempted by the demon Mara who sent his three beautiful daughters, Tanha (desire), Raga (lust), and Arati (aversion) to try to seduce him while he sat meditating under a banyan tree. After resisting these temptations, the prince attained Buddhahood at the age of thirty five.

While the exact process by which this story became adopted into Christian folklore is far from clear, it is thought that it travelled via a chain of adaptations, possibly via Manichaeism, where the Bodhisattva in Sanskrit became rendered as Bodhisav in Persian, then as Budhasaf in Arabic, Iodasaph in Georgian, Ioasaph in Greek and then finally Josaphat in Western Europe.

​

The Buddha being tempted by the daughters of Mara, detail from The Life of the Buddha, Maitreya's dhoti, Alchi Sumtseg in Ladakh.​

It wasn't until the 19th century, when the Buddhist scriptures finally began to be translated into European languages, that the connection between the two stories was noticed. Without any historical evidence to prove the independent existence of St. Josaphat, the Buddhist origin of the story is now generally accepted by Catholics. ​

However, despite rumours to the contrary, St. Josaphat remains to this day a recognised saint in the Catholic Church and he retains his place in the Roman Martyrology, a catalogue of martyrs and saints arranged as a calendar. Each day in the Martyrology provides the reader with edifying stories of various saints who may be optionally commemorated on that particular day. ​

The story of St. Josaphat — aka the Lord Buddha — is still commemorated on the 27th of November.​

​

 

[Montalban]

'Eastern' thought has little compatibility with Christianity.

Christianity claims that truths are absolute, and that Christianity is true.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Reading the article. 21 pages and lots of references. I will say I love her writing style. It is obvious she is a good authority on the subject and makes the history fascinating rather than dull.

I will say there are multiple valuable references to the work of the Apostolic Delegate Archbishop Paolo Marella, who seems to have an excellent grasp of Asian cultures and inculturation for his time period (1930's and 1940's; although he lived until the 70's). There is an instruction from Rome in 1936 about aspects of inculturation that should be common domain somewhere that I will try to find.

Paolo Marella is someone who I wish were still alive....as in our times, his example/thoughts are something that are of much benefit (IMHO) when it comes to the issue of inculturation. And it'd be interesting to see what he'd think if living in the time period we're currently in since so much has changed within the last decade alone. It still seems powerful in light of what he'd often say to missionaries to the East when saying it was important to not only learn the language/culture of prospective converts...but to embrance foreign cultures even at the expense of one's own since only a Gospel stripped to its essence can penetrate an alien culture. In places such as China, this was made very difficult at some points...such as with what occurred when the acceptance of Christianity was made more difficult by the Rites Controversy and related Eurocentric rulings from Rome that were inflexible in dealing with rites to ancestors and to Confucius. For this produced an untenable situation in which conversion to Christianity forced one to be unfilial to one's ancestors. ...and thankfully, Rome later reversed these rulings in 1939 in a case involving Japanese Shinto

It is also interesting to see how interest in Zen spread among Catholics in certain eras, with many beginning to use methods of Zen meditation in their own prayer life...as dialogue with Buddhists, especially Zen Buddhists, developed in many places and led to Oriental-Occidental spiritual exchanges. The one that began first occurred in September 1979, when 51 Buddhist monks experienced a month of monastic life in contemplative Catholic monasteries in Germany, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. The second cultural exchange occurred in October 1983 when 17 contemplative European monks, mainly Benedictines and Trappists, came to Japan to spend a month in Zen monasteries. Personally, I'm glad to see such exchanges occur...especially if others in Eastern Religions were able to be exposed to the Biblical practices of the Church.

Untill you're able to find the instruction from Rome that you'd said you'd try to find, there're some other works referencing him ....as well as the general subject of inculturation (as it concerns the OP subject of Catholicism/its interactions with Eastern religion) that you may be interested in which are very insightful (and scholary reviews as well from a Catholic perspective)..as seen here in their respective order:

• THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN JAPAN TODAY

• Chapter VIII. Christianity and Thai Culture - CRVP

• Asian American Catholics: Diversity Within Diversity."

• "Being Religious Interreligiously: Asian Perspectives on Interfaith Dialogue",

• America Magazine - Inculturating Liturgical Music

• Translation and Inculturation in the Catholic Church

• Rome and Inculturation: The Japanese Catholic Church in the ...

• "Jesus, The Crucified and Risen Sage: Constructing A Contemporary Confucian Christology."

• Sisters in arms: Catholic nuns through two millennia By Jo Ann McNamara

• CULTURE AND LITURGY: ANCESTOR VENERATION AS A TEST CASE-- By Peter C.Phan ...The Catholic University of America​

• "Missio Inter Gentes: Towards a New Paradigm in the Mission Theology of the Federation of Asian Bishops' Conferences (FABC)."

• "From 'Missio ad Gentes' to 'Missio inter Gentes': Shaping A New Paradigm for Doing Christian Mission in Asia."

• "Theologizing at the Service of Life: The Contextual Theological Methodology of the Federation of Asian Bishops' Conferences (FABC)."

• Towards Asian Liturgical Inculturation: Investigating the Resources in the Documents of the Federation of Asian Bishops' Conferences (FABC) for Developing an Asian Theology of Liturgical Inculturation."

• "From Ecclesia In Asia To A Mission Of Love And Service: A Comparative Analysis Of Two Contrasting Approaches To Doing Christian Mission In Asia."

• A New Way of Being Church in Asia: The Federation of Asian Bishops' Conferences (FABC) at the Service of Life in Pluralistic Asia.

• Inculturation - Resources for Catholic Educators (Spirituality in the Asia Context)

• America Magazine: Tenacious Catholic Church in Japan speaks for voiceless beyond its numbers...

The article on the intculturation of liturgical music from Eastern cultures into the Catholic church from "America Magazine" was probably one of the most powerful...especially as it concerns ancient Syro-Malankara and Syro-Malabar rites, along with the Roman rite. I appreciated how they brought up the point that the immensely rich tradition of Hindustani and Karnatic classical music is bound historically, textually and by musical association to Hinduism, as is most Indian art and classical literature.....yet there was documentation done by the Rev. Stephen F. Duncan in A Genre of Hindustani Music (Bhajans) as Used in the Roman Catholic Church, on how the simpler structures of bhajan (involving simple congregational refrains) and kirtan (hymns) may be used in Catholic liturgy. Some could make the argument that the chants/sounds will remind others of what it was like when in Hindu temples....but of course, that'd be invalid to say.



Its interesting to see what has gone down with many of the Catholic churches in Eastern cultures that've come under fire for many of the ways they've sought to do interculturation...as it concerns the Asian nations.

As it concerns the issue of others perhaps missing the Gospel during the translation of what's within Eastern Cultures/connecting that with Christianity, I'm reminded of what another said best in the article entitled Vulgata: A Humble Expression of my Need for a Cultural Identity. As said there:

Perhaps the area of the world that has done the least work towards inculturating the Gospel is the same one that has the lowest percentage of Christians: Asia. The Federation of Asian Bishop Conferences, along with the Pope, expresses this lack of inculturation in terms of a need to find the "Asian Christ". Each individual has a personal relationship with Christ and so too does each culture. Different attempts have been made in Asia to find this relationship. Some have advocated a Buddha-like Christ, a Brahmanistic Christ, a Gnostic Christ etc., but these attempts have missed the point on two accounts. Firstly, the project of inculturation is not a project of syncretism. Its not that we have to make Christianity more like Buddhism so that Asians can relate to it, in fact such a project is doomed to failure. Christ and Buddha were two so radically different people who taught such radically different things that if you try to make Christ into Buddha, you just end up with Buddha. Thus the Asian can say "if your Christ is like my Buddha, then I'll remain a Buddhist and you can remain a Christian." The second way that these attempts at finding an Asian Christ fail is that they are just that, attempts. Inculturation is not something that can be done by writing a book or publishing an article or developing a theology. It has to be lived by those who actually practice the faith. The Pope in Ecclesia in Asia suggests that the Asian image of Christ will place emphasis on "Jesus Christ as the Teacher of Wisdom, the Healer, the Liberator, the Spiritual Guide, the Enlightened One, the Compassionate Friend of the Poor, the Good Samaritan, the Good Shepherd, the Obedient One." These seem like good starting points, but the Pope has also been persistent in saying hat the uniqueness of Christ and His sacrifice must also be proclaimed to separate Him from the hundreds of gurus, mystics and enlightened spiritual teachers that populate the Asian religious landscape.


​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

He may mean how the Eastern Orthodox respond at times to those Eastern Catholics in union with Rome. There is much tension at times between them due to how the Uniate Churches, as many EO refer to them, came about. In the past on the boards here there have been uncharitable things said.

Understood.

I would be interested in seeing the thread references you're referring to where there was bad press. And to be clear, I'm not saying that I'm doubting what you said. I just would like to know where I can find out the specifics for myself.

The ones I'm aware of that have discussed Eastern Rites/Eastern Catholics are the following:

• Eastern Rite Icon

• I'm really confused.

• I guess all roads DO lead to Rome

• Now's your chance to experience Melkite Catholicism!

• For those truly wanting to understand Eastern Catholicism...

• Why I chose the Catholic Church and why I will always be Catholic

• Middle East synod looks to improve communion between Eastern Catholics

There is a fine line when using inculturation. Although not the East there is an inculturated form of the liturgy called the Zaire Use in Africa that very competently handles the issues we may encounter in societies with deep religious respect for ancestors. So although it is a connection that is helpful it can also be done poorly and in a way that contradicts the theology we have on Saints.

The Zaire Use doesn't seem in any way to be something (thankfully) that should cause worry..as all it does is incoroporate elements from sub-Saharan African culture


Many thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts thus far...

 

[Montalban]

If only there were a thing called a summary

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There is not, to my knowledge, an inculturated far Eastern Liturgy. I will check to see what has been done or proposed on that. I actually have a book downstairs written about my missionary friend. It is from the 70's so is dated a bit but it deals with how he worked in Japan. I will see if my wife knows where it is, or get it when she gets home and take it to work with me. I have time to post more at work.

Were you able to find the book that was written about your friend? Was curious as I'd love to go invest in/read it sometime---and of course, it being from the 70's isn't consequential in all aspects since good info is good info.

Again, thanks for sharing the thoughts you have thus far and for bringing all of the considerate interaction on the OP Subject material, from both the extensive aspects to the minutiae. I've greatly appreciated you bringing the level of knowledge you've done to the isssue....and of course, the same goes to others who chose to do so as well. Its a blessing. Shalom
.

 

[Montalban]

I find reading on these three sites very interesting

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[Gxg (G²)]

...St. Nicholas of Japan actually lived in Japan during the Russo-Japanese war. He was almost killed, but was able to approach the samurai who was intent on killing him and actually was allowed to live and continue as the bishop to the Japanese Orthodox. He was pretty much forced to learn all about the Japanese ethos, reading the buddhist literature and the culture.

Indeed, amazing..

St.Nicholas was wise concerning what it was that he did. For with what occurred with him, though others may take issue with it, it really isn't such a bad thing. In the thread entitled Is Yoga incompatible with Catholicism?, there were sentiments shared by some concerning how learning of Eastern concepts would be damaging...and yet others discussed the issue of how it wouldn't necessarily be the case that one would have to trip

As said best by another there:

Originally Posted by Davidnic

I mean should a Catholic also avoid Akido because it can include Shinto elements and has that origin? Or Kung Fu because of the Taoist element? Similar with Tai Chi or Pa Kua or dozens of other martial arts
​

The Eucharist is the physical manifestation of Christ; Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. But when someone with invalid Sacraments pretends to consecrate it is not. So in that way it is not what it truly is even when that is intended by those playing sacraments.

If they don't intend it to even be that it is fully divided from what it is even if they attempt the spirituality in a vague way.

And if they just eat bread for the nutrition and wine for the health benefits it can't be called Eucharist even though those elements are the accidents in the Eucharist.

If people doing Yoga as exercises reject the spirituality and do it for the health benefits it is most definitely fully divided from the roots.

In the 60's this was not so, but now it is. Yoga has an expression fully broken from the roots and is usable as an exercise form removed from the "spirituality"

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I believe the term for evangelization that the East and West both incorporate is called "inculturation." Inculturation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Inculturation does give room for many things to occur. There's another thread on the issue that does seem to discuss it from a differing cultural angle, entitled What can you tell me about Celtic Catholicism?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

When I have time (need to feed the daughter) I will comment. .

Pray God gives you grace with your daughter...as I know how difficult it can be to raise young ones. Praise God for fathers!!!