Earth, then light (Big Bang), Created on Day One; Sun, Moon and Stars Created on Day Four

[Revelation 22:10-12]

The Big Bang​

Hello Revelation,

Hello Steven,

Do you understand and agree that the 'big bang', scientifically, is a huge explosion of light, the scientific first light of the Universe?

I understand that the definition of a scientific theory is the observation of a phenomenon in the natural world for that theory to be a "valid" scientific theory. Many evolutionists would point to the theory of gravity as it is a phenomenon that can be observed in the natural world, but the Big Bang Theory and Macroevolution which is really what the Evolution Theory is about, cannot be observed in the natural world; therefore neither theory is valid. They are both a false science per the definition of a scientific theory, but it is hard to hold the world to that definition that they used in vain to justify those 2 theories, because they want to believe in it.

Do you understand and agree that, scientifically, it could have been six days between the 'big bang' and the creation of Adam, if earth is traveling at near the speed of light?
Using Time Dilation, Billions of years of Star Formation Can Occur in Six Days.

What you are talking about, cannot be proven by science. Neither can it be observed when it exists only in the realm of the theoretical or to speak plainly, the realm of the imaginations.

Do you understand that many atheist scientists, are leading people away from Jesus, because they claim, ignorantly, that the Creation story in the Bible, could not scientifically be true?

Was Adam a full grown man or not? Has there not been any scriptural evidence in creation for maturity in plants bearing fruits and seeds at the time of their creation or not? Then when God created the celestial heavens that fourth day and commanded that they give light to the earth that fourth day for governing times and seasons, then not only the sources of those lights were created that fourth day but the gap was filled in space to give lights to the earth that fourth day as His word commanded.

If we try to guess the age of the earth or the lights in the Heavens by the laws established after creation, we are going to get it wrong. Indeed, the dating methods have shown vast and various errant dating results as proven within known human history for any one to take stock on how old anything is past known human history by those same dating method.

Would it not be better to teach the world that the Bible and science are in harmony on Creation? In this way science is no longer an obstacle for educated people in their conversion to believe in Jesus Christ.

What do you think?

There are lies that have been added to Christianity that falls under heresy; so do brace yourself for the fact that there are lies in science. If you look online for the definition of microevolution and macroevolution, some results will show links to dictionary's sites and universities sites that will have those 2 definitions as standing apart, some will start to blur the lines between the 2 definitions, and you will find some that makes them both sound the same. How is that for discipline in science?

Then "Rapid Macroevolution" or Punctuated Equilibrium was proposed because Gradual macroevolution CANNOT be true due to the huge gap in the fossil records for transitional fossils, and yet you will find some evolutionists not blinking when they say both are true.

The irony is that in proposing Rapid Macroevolution, Stephen Jay Gould cited that for that explosion to happen in the fossil record in the Cambrian period ( per my recollection for the time period ) he said that a global flood had to tap that capacity. So close and yet so far while evolutionists argue that he never meat it was a global flood that reached the top of mountains.

Then you have evidence reported in the of fossilized whale bones with other fossilized marine life buried on mountaintops in the Andes with fossilized land animal bones TOGETHER, but the world covered it up by theorizing what they did not observe by saying that the mountains rose up suddenly from the sea, trapping marine life, but did not touch how fossilized land animals were found with them.

WHALE FOSSILS HIGH IN ANDES SHOW HOW MOUNTAINS ROSE FROM SEA

I believe what Jesus said about Noah and the ark because He used that point in history and even what had happened to Sodom & Gomorrah for why believers should heed His warnings about being ready to go when the Bridegroom comes, and not love this life that they would not want to leave it like Lot's wife did.

When science deny the Biblical global flood by covering it up with false theories that cannot be observed nor proven, but you can find flood legends from all around the world to take Jesus at His words to know science will always fumble around in the dark and know Jesus speaks the truth.

So there is real science; what can be observed and proven; and then there is a false science which no believer needs to make compromises in His words to try and fit that false science into the scripture.

 

[StevenMerten]

Do you understand and agree that, scientifically, it could have been six days between the 'big bang' and the creation of Adam, if earth is traveling at near the speed of light?
Using Time Dilation, Billions of years of Star Formation Can Occur in Six Days.

Hello Steven,
What you are talking about, cannot be proven by science. Neither can it be observed when it exists only in the realm of the theoretical or to speak plainly, the realm of the imaginations.

Hello Revelaion,
Science tells us that Time Dilation has been proven on space trips and our GPS satellites. In fact GPS satellites need computers to compensate for time dilation, otherwise they would put you in the ditch.

Or Are you saying that time dilation does exist, you simply think, on your own, that God creating earth first, as He says He did, and then God creating the mass of one septillion stars on the head of needle, 'the Big Bang', God's 'Let There Be Light!, next to earth, is simply not enough gravitational force for God to bring earth up to near light speed, in order to attain time dilation?

Time Dilation​

Such time dilation has been repeatedly demonstrated, for instance by small disparities in a pair of atomic clocks after one of them is sent on a space trip, or by clocks on the Space Shuttle running slightly slower than reference clocks on Earth, or clocks on GPS and Galileo satellites running slightly faster.​

Time dilation and space flight​

Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home.Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.
Quoted From: Wikipedia Time Dilation​

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Hello Revelaion,
Science tells us that Time Dilation has been proven on space trips and our GPS satellites. In fact GPS satellites need computers to compensate for time dilation, otherwise they would put you in the ditch.

Proving time dilation is one thing; "applying it" in a hypothesis is another.

Or Are you saying that time dilation does exist, you simply think, on your own, that God creating earth first, as He says He did, and then creating the mass of one septillion stars on the head of needle, 'the Big Bang', God's 'Let There Be Light!, next to earth, is simply not enough gravitational force to bring earth up to near light speed, to attain time dilation?

Besides creating light, God created what a day is the first day with evening and morning each day so that we know how long it took for God to create the heavens and the earth which is six days.

God created the earth the next 2 days and then the heavens the fourth day.

If you think Star Trek's holodeck in laying the groundwork for your program, it is by step by step; and not running yet, even though time passes per the measurement of what a day is in your programming. Once everything is set up to run, you rest from creating your holodeck program.

So the laws of physics within the program cannot be use as a measurement of time to gauge how old the program actually is when you were setting up your holodeck program from outside the program when it took you six days to set up that program, because you gave maturity within your program in setting everything up to run once the programming was complete. However, since you said it took six days to create everything in that program, the hearers should believe you and they should believe God.

Time Dilation​

Such time dilation has been repeatedly demonstrated, for instance by small disparities in a pair of atomic clocks after one of them is sent on a space trip, or by clocks on the Space Shuttle running slightly slower than reference clocks on Earth, or clocks on GPS and Galileo satellites running slightly faster.​

Time dilation and space flight​

Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home.Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.
Quoted From: Wikipedia Time Dilation​

Thanks for sharing, but I believe God when His words says He created the heavens and the earth in six days. I understand your point of view in regards to Genesis account, but it is a false application because we have clarification of that Genesis account below.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[StevenMerten]

Genesis 1:1 The Story of Creation. ​

Day One
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.

God saw that the light was good. God then separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” Evening came, and morning followed—the first day.

Day Three
Then God said: Let the earth bring forth vegetation: every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it. And so it happened: the earth brought forth vegetation: every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree that bears fruit with its seed in it. God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning followed—the third day.
​

Day Four

Then God said: Let there be lights in the dome of the sky, to separate day from night. Let them mark the seasons, the days and the years, and serve as lights in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth. And so it happened: God made the two great lights, the greater one to govern the day, and the lesser one to govern the night, and the stars.

God set them in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning followed—the fourth day.​

If you think Star Trek's holodeck in laying the groundwork for your program, it is by step by step; and not running yet, even though time passes per the measurement of what a day is in your programming. Once everything is set up to run, you rest from creating your holodeck program.

Hello Revelation,
Yes, some Christians believe what you believe. In that there was nothing physical on the first five (24 hour) days of creation, and then poof, everything physical, sun, earth, moon, plants, and Adam, poofed into existence on the sixth day, all at once. I, and many Christians, disagree with you.

We now understand your philosophy on creation. Let us together dissect what of God's story of six days of Creation could, or, could not, occur.

God tells us that He created plant life, on earth, on the Third Day of Creation. Then God tells us that He created our earths orbit around the sun, on the Fourth Day of Creation. God defines a 'day' as one dark to light cycle. God tells us that there is an evening and a morning for plant life, on earth, on day Three of Creation.

Earth could be physically rotating in front of the 'big bang' (big bang is light), for one dark to light cycle, which God defines as 'day', even before earth was in our sun's orbit. The 'laws of physics' allow this, correct?

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Hello Revelation,

Hello Steven,

Yes, some Christians believe what you believe. In that there was nothing physical on the first five (24 hour) days of creation, and then poof, everything physical, sun, earth, moon, plants, and Adam, poofed into existence on the sixth day, all at once.

That is not what I had meant. Sorry you seem to see my belief in that way as well as His word, but no.

I was not meaning that everything was created on the sixth day; I just meant He rested from creating everything on the seventh day from which everything was set up to run from there as is.

I, and many Christians, disagree with you.

We now understand your philosophy on creation. Let us together dissect what of God's story of six days of Creation could, or, could not, occur.

God tells us that He created plant life, on earth, on the Third Day of Creation. Then God tells us that He created our earths orbit around the sun, on the Fourth Day of Creation. God defines a 'day' as one dark to light cycle. God tells us that there is an evening and a morning for plant life, on earth, on day Three of Creation.

Earth could be physically rotating in front of the 'big bang' (big bang is light), for one dark to light cycle, which God defines as 'day', even before earth was in our sun's orbit. The 'laws of physics' allow this, correct?

If you ever doubted what God meant in the creation account in Genesis, then read and discern Exodus 20:11. Moses written both Genesis and Exodus as inspired by the Holy Spirit, and so regardless of what you seem to think about the big bang theory of its possibility being in that creation week, nature proves that the big bang did not happen because you have planets and moons in our solar system that are rotating contrariwise, thus pointing to the Grand Designer in setting everything up as it is. That means when God spoke, all that complexity of the celestial bodies in the heavens were spoken into existence and not by a big bang.

 

[Zetetica]

I don't believe there is a monolithic agreement on the big bang, origin or beginnings of the Universe among atheists, nor among agnostic physicists.

Seems there are a variety of theories.
I go along with the big bang theory, primarily because all the galaxies are flying away from one another. I do not believe anything evolved on account of this though, God designed earth specially and I believe God managed and set things in motion purposefully, even if He started the expansion from one place, it needent have been a bang though - but purely His power.

PLEASE back this (your belief) up with scripture, would you?

 

[Zetetica]

The earth is formless and void when God created light. It is not yet a material reality. Light enters this formless void and judgement takes place. Light enters the formless void and is separated from the darkness. This is the fall of the angels. Yet to become material, creation is bound to futility and decay. Romans 8.20. Matter begins to form in the light of the following days.

Two Cents

Where in scripture do you get that these verses mean Earth was not yet manifest (not yet physical)?

 

[Zetetica]

2 Peter 3:8
But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day.

A thousand years is a euphemism for an indefinite period of time.

• Psalm 90:4
• For a thousand years in your sight are like yesterday when it is past, or like a watch in the night.
• 
  
• Ecclesiastes 6:6
• even if he lives a thousand years twice—but has not seen goodness. Do not all go to one place?
• 
  
• Revelation 20:2
• He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
• 
  
• Revelation 20:3
• and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

This is out of context.

 

[Zetetica]

The Earth is a sphere, a fact that dates to ancient Greece. But for a small segment of the population, this scientific fact is debatable. So-called Flat-Earthers truly believe our planet is a flat disc ringed by an ice wall. To keep up with all things flat, and round, Live Science reports on the news related to flat-Earth beliefs and the science supporting our round home.
Flat Earth​

Hello Sound,
Sometimes I jump the gun and assume all modern day people believe in our planet system, which God Created on the Fourth Day of Creation. Are you a Flat Earth, Creationist?

The following U-tube video is God's Creation of Earth's solar system. With the exception of Earth, of course. Earth drops out of light speed and is immediately caught in our sun's gravity, where Earth begins her orbit around the sun. Thus 24 hours a day, 365 days in a year, are now 'Marked' as God puts it, controlled by our sun. Our sun also, only now, becomes Earth's light source, for Earth's dark to light cycles.

Remember, on Earth, only days are passing by, while God is creating the rest of the universe around Earth. If God has Earth moving at the speed of light, while the rest of Creation is moving at a far slower velocity, then, using Time Dilation, billions of years of star and planet formation, can occur in six, even 24 hour, days.

God and man use the number of dark to light cycles occurring on earth to date the age of the universe. So it does not matter how many billions of years old the universe looks like, on earth only six days went by from the big bang to Adam and Eve on Earth, simply because both man (scientists included) and God use dark to light cycles occurring on earth, as the 'clock' to measure the amount of physical time passing by during Creation. If earth is at the speed of light during the first four days of creation, then Creation literally could have only taken six, 24 hour days or even 2.5 hour days, to come into existence. Even atheist scientists have to agree with this, because this is how Time Dilation works.

You were doing so well, not reading INTO scripture and then you did this.

Earth going light speed? Gravity? Time Dilation? Solar system? NONE of this exists in scripture. Does it exist in general? I can't say for certain. However, Biblically, it doesn't and simply CAN NOT exist.

Everything I just read here is nothing more than you, laying your own understandings on scripture.

 

[StevenMerten]

If you ever doubted what God meant in the creation account in Genesis, then read and discern Exodus 20:11. Moses written both Genesis and Exodus as inspired by the Holy Spirit, and so regardless of what you seem to think about the big bang theory of its possibility being in that creation week, nature proves that the big bang did not happen because you have planets and moons in our solar system that are rotating contrariwise, thus pointing to the Grand Designer in setting everything up as it is. That means when God spoke, all that complexity of the celestial bodies in the heavens were spoken into existence and not by a big bang.

Hello Revelation,
You keep trying to imply that I do not believe God Created the Universe in six days. I do believe that God Created the universe, with Adam in it, in six days. "God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.”", or you can think of day as twenty four hours, which God gave us the twenty four hour day on the Fourth Day of Creation, "Let there be lights in the dome of the sky, to separate day from night. Let them mark the seasons, the days and the years.". It would seem that before earth enters into our sun's orbit on the Fourth Day of Creation, it could be rotating at one dark to light cycle every million years, in front of the 'big bang' light source. Thus I put the poll question up on what Christians think it means to be a 'Creationist'. We have Christians at a fifty, fifty split on this issue; Eleven for and Eleven against.

I believe, either way you understand God's word 'day', that God Created the Universe in six days, on the week Adam was made.

 

[StevenMerten]

You were doing so well, not reading INTO scripture and then you did this.

Earth going light speed? Gravity? Time Dilation? Solar system? NONE of this exists in scripture. Does it exist in general? I can't say for certain. However, Biblically, it doesn't and simply CAN NOT exist.

Everything I just read here is nothing more than you, laying your own understandings on scripture.

Greetings Zetetica,
I had heard, and read, of Flat Earth Creationists, but you are my first encounter with one. I am very interested in hearing from you as to how you see our earth, sun, moon and stars, today. Please describe our earth and our universe, in their present form today, as you see it.

 

[Zetetica]

Greetings Zetetica,
I had heard, and read, of Flat Earth Creationists, but you are my first encounter with one. I am very interested in hearing from you as to how you see our earth, sun, moon and stars, today. Please describe our earth and our universe, in their present form today, as you see it.

*Takes a deep breath*

Okay... The surface of the Earth overall is optically flat. This changes, depending on elevation, atmospheric conditions, and I suspect other factors I'm not educated on enough to discuss with authority.

The entire mass of the Earth is unknown to me, since all I'm able to view is the surface and even this perspective is highly limited. It's limited by my optical ability (limits of human sight) and likely by the human body itself, considering inhospitable conditions at high elevation and certain locations (Examples: 100k feet up, Antarctica).

What is beneath the explorable depths of the land and sea? I don't know. What is above? Lights. What are these lights? I don't know. I can speculate but I don't have certainty; I don't know.

Furthermore, I don't think I can know. I don't think the earth can be measured, neither the heaven, nor what is below.

What about the firmament? Do I believe it exists as a solid curved mass of crystalline or metallic substance over the whole Earth? There isn't evidence for this, though Biblically it makes sense and is supported, though many argue. Do I believe it? Yes, though only because of scripture supporting it.

What about Earth moving? Rotating? Certainly, the land shifts, likely causing earthquakes. However, the entire world doesn't move in my view. The Earth (entire earth) doesn't rotate, spin, orbit, ect. Furthermore, in the Bible, Earth is declared as fixed, as not to be moved (stationary).

What about gravity? I've yet to see convincing evidence that mass attracts mass.

Sunrise? Sunset? No idea and I don't dare assume the FE flat circle map is correct, since flight paths, among other things, just don't work on it.

Eclipses? Unknown. I can speculate but I can't verify.

While I'm sure I've missed a lot here, I think I've made my position clear. I simply don't know. I can simplify things and say, "water doesn't curve around a ball" but I actually can't know that either, unless outer space exists and I can observe this for myself and even then, I'd be highly suspicious and wouldn't dare trust any existing space agency or SpaceX to get me there. Furthermore, I'd be concerned what I observed was nothing more than virtual reality. Yes, that's surely paranoid but it's not without evidence to warrant it.

However, I can just be simple and choose to trust scripture, rather than man's theories, based on flawed and limited senses, instruments, and assumptions.

I do believe, no matter how flawed my eyes, ears, mouth, ect... God's word will guide me right. I know I can trust in His word, and I have faith He will always provide light in the darkness.

 

[StevenMerten]

*Takes a deep breath*

Okay... The surface of the Earth overall is optically flat. This changes, depending on elevation, atmospheric conditions, and I suspect other factors I'm not educated on enough to discuss with authority.

The entire mass of the Earth is unknown to me, since all I'm able to view is the surface and even this perspective is highly limited. It's limited by my optical ability (limits of human sight) and likely by the human body itself, considering inhospitable conditions at high elevation and certain locations (Examples: 100k feet up, Antarctica).

What is beneath the explorable depths of the land and sea? I don't know. What is above? Lights. What are these lights? I don't know. I can speculate but I don't have certainty; I don't know.

Furthermore, I don't think I can know. I don't think the earth can be measured, neither the heaven, nor what is below.

What about the firmament? Do I believe it exists as a solid curved mass of crystalline or metallic substance over the whole Earth? There isn't evidence for this, though Biblically it makes sense and is supported, though many argue. Do I believe it? Yes, though only because of scripture supporting it.

What about Earth moving? Rotating? Certainly, the land shifts, likely causing earthquakes. However, the entire world doesn't move in my view. The Earth (entire earth) doesn't rotate, spin, orbit, ect. Furthermore, in the Bible, Earth is declared as fixed, as not to be moved (stationary).

What about gravity? I've yet to see convincing evidence that mass attracts mass.

Sunrise? Sunset? No idea and I don't dare assume the FE flat circle map is correct, since flight paths, among other things, just don't work on it.

Eclipses? Unknown. I can speculate but I can't verify.

While I'm sure I've missed a lot here, I think I've made my position clear. I simply don't know. I can simplify things and say, "water doesn't curve around a ball" but I actually can't know that either, unless outer space exists and I can observe this for myself and even then, I'd be highly suspicious and wouldn't dare trust any existing space agency or SpaceX to get me there. Furthermore, I'd be concerned what I observed was nothing more than virtual reality. Yes, that's surely paranoid but it's not without evidence to warrant it.

However, I can just be simple and choose to trust scripture, rather than man's theories, based on flawed and limited senses, instruments, and assumptions.

I do believe, no matter how flawed my eyes, ears, mouth, ect... God's word will guide me right. I know I can trust in His word, and I have faith He will always provide light in the darkness.

Hello Zetetica,
Thank you my friend. This is an encounter in my life that I was waiting for. I am still a round earth (sphere) believer. Still sharing the Faith of Jesus Christ, with a Creationist who is not exactly like myself, is a joy to encounter.

In the end, all that matters is that you love, serve and obey Jesus, with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your strength and with all your soul. Whether you accomplish this as a round earth Christian, or, a flat earth Christian, does not matter.

Again,
Thank you for sharing my friend.
Steven

 

[Eloy Craft]

Where in scripture do you get that these verses mean Earth was not yet manifest (not yet physical)?

Can you tell me about a material thing that has no form?

 

[Eloy Craft]

This is out of context.

How so?

 

[A_Thinker]

Earth going light speed? Gravity? Time Dilation? Solar system? NONE of this exists in scripture. Does it exist in general? I can't say for certain. However, Biblically, it doesn't and simply CAN NOT exist.

Lots of things aren't mentioned in scripture (i.e. electricity, artificial lights, microwaves, television, radio, antibiotics, etc.).

Surely you believe that these things exist ... ???

 

[Zetetica]

Hello Zetetica,
Thank you my friend. This is an encounter in my life that I was waiting for. I am still a round earth (sphere) believer. Still sharing the Faith of Jesus Christ, with a Creationist who is not exactly like myself, is a joy to encounter.

In the end, all that matters is that you love, serve and obey Jesus, with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your strength and with all your soul. Whether you accomplish this as a round earth Christian, or, a flat earth Christian, does not matter.

Again,
Thank you for sharing my friend.
Steven

I didn't expect kindness from you. I didn't expect such a warm reception. I was honestly very nervous, and a bit ashamed of my belief, considering my background.

Thank you.

 

[Zetetica]

Lots of things aren't mentioned in scripture (i.e. electricity, artificial lights, microwaves, television, radio, antibiotics, etc.).

Surely you believe that these things exist ... ???

ALL of these are man made so I don't see logic in your comparison. Man didn't create the Earth?

 

[A_Thinker]

ALL of these are man made so I don't see logic in your comparison. Man didn't create the Earth?

Electricity is man-made ?

Microwaves ?

Radio Waves ?

Antibiotics ?

All of these are discoveries of different aspects of God's creation ...

 

[Zetetica]

Electricity is man-made ?

Microwaves ?

Radio Waves ?

Antibiotics ?

All of these are discoveries of different aspects of God's creation ...

Man designed the equipment to produce or make use of creation in these ways.