Earth Almost 7,000 Years Old, Not 6,000

WhoIsLikeGod?

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Exactly... the Millennial Kingdom is a time of rest and renewal... this isn't exactly rest and renewal. If we count from Adam, we are right at about 6000 years right now. If there were people before then... the bible doesn't say so I don't go there (personally).
No man will know the day or the hour when Christ returns. The millennial reign is still in the future. All eyes will see the Lord coming in the clouds with great glory.

You've given yourself a difficult task, there. Go ahead, try counting forward from Adam, and let me know how it goes. List your sources.
 
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Jonathan Walkerin

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The God that I know, while He created light, in its natural state to travel at the speed of 186,000 mps, can, by the command of His voice, make it travel even faster or slower than that.

Of course God can do anything, but it is bit silly to live your life thinking that maybe you were created 5 seconds ago with embedded memories. That maybe you are a dream, or a computer simulation , or shadow dancing on the cave wall witnessing Jesus bathing and getting sentient because of that or something.

Physical reality is explored by science. If you have to all the time go to explanation that everything is possible to God to refute the physical evidence we have discovered through multiple different areas of science you are just using blind faith and should not try to explain anything.

Just say God did and you do not care how or why. Like Dad and AV =)

Do not try to invent a reason God would have made light go slower to fit the Bible narrative.

Ever wonder if God can do anything why didn`t He make the Bible something that explained everything or why HE does not arrange new copies every 200 years to drop from the sky ?
 
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WhoIsLikeGod?

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I think you’re forgetting a few years in there... That whole “dinosaur” and “Ice Age” thing leaps immediately to mind...
The carbon-14 measured in dinosaurs could have been diminished by the atmospheric changes and water erosion caused by the flood. The Bible says all the springs of the great deep burst forth (Gen. 7:11); water poured on the earth for 40 days and nights; the waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days (Gen. 7:24). The flood covered the tallest mountains by 20 feet. Not until a year after the flood started did the waters recede and Noah and his family depart the ark. Stanford particle physicist Stephen Selipsky said that's a pressure of approximately 775 atmospheres of water on the earth. Would that dislocate some of the 14C in dinosaur fossils? What about the change that would have to occur in the atmosphere, assuming God did it supernaturally? There are at least 4 ancient sources that give an account of the flood: Genesis, Eridu Genesis, the Sumerian King List, and the Epic of Gilgamesh, dating between 1183 and 1753 years after the flood. But this was only 9 to 16 generations after the flood. I have written a long, detailed biography about my 5th great-grandfather (7 generations away) in the American Revolution. And who knows if earlier copies of the flood accounts were lost or destroyed.
 
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Jonathan Walkerin

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The flood covered the tallest mountains by 20 feet. Not until a year after the flood started did the waters recede and Noah and his family depart the ark. Stanford particle physicist Stephen Selipsky said that's a pressure of approximately 775 atmospheres of water on the earth. Would that dislocate some of the 14C in dinosaur fossils?

Since the whole ark thing would not work scientifically why do you have the need explain all the other stuff with pseudoscience like "yeah , but if God used carbon - 14 minus laundry agent in the flood it would explain everything".

Just call it act of God since you are never getting science to back it up because it apparently did not happen in any way that science can verify.
 
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WhoIsLikeGod?

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Faith and science. Yes. We agree, they are millions of years old.

People take many parts of the Bible absolutely 'Literally' when it shouldnt be taken that way.

Same as Revelation with all the weird beasts etc. Its not meant to be taken LITERALLY.
It can be taken literally. Before light was created on day one there were four elements that existed: God, the heavens, the earth, and the waters (Gen. 1:1). The earth may very well be billions of years old, but not people. The flood would have changed the rate of radioactive decay and contaminated the 14C. Additionally, scientists guess the original amount of 14C was in the original organisms.

A beast is a kingdom (Dan. 7:17).
 
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WhoIsLikeGod?

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Since the whole ark thing would not work scientifically why do you have the need explain all the other stuff with pseudoscience like "yeah , but if God used carbon - 14 minus laundry agent in the flood it would explain everything".

Just call it act of God since you are never getting science to back it up because it apparently did not happen in any way that science can verify.
I haven't found the primary source for dinosaur fossil dating, care to link? I'll consider it; I believe radiometric dating works.
 
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Jonathan Walkerin

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I haven't found the primary source for dinosaur fossil dating, care to link? I'll consider it; I believe radiometric dating works.

Radiocarbon dating - Wikipedia

I do not think they have an app where you insert Dino name age sex and birth year to the results.
 
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Lost4words

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It can be taken literally. Before light was created on day one there were four elements that existed: God, the heavens, the earth, and the waters (Gen. 1:1). The earth may very well be billions of years old, but not people. The flood would have changed the rate of radioactive decay and contaminated the 14C. Additionally, scientists guess the original amount of 14C was in the original organisms.

A beast is a kingdom (Dan. 7:17).

Fantasy my friend.

People read the Bible with 'modern' eyes and brains. A lot written is done so in a non literal way. Not everything in the Bible is meant to be taken 100% literally.

Just like Revelation is not meant to be taken 'literally', Genesis has many parts the same.
 
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Neostarwcc

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I think the Jewish calendar is most accurate as to how old the Earth is since the creation of Adam and Eve (It's currently the year 5779 in their calendar). So creation is almost 6,000 years old currently. I mean the Jews gave us the OT so why shouldn't we trust their account of creation? They've apparently been keeping time since the beginning.

I'm honestly not educated as to how they know though. I'd have to ask a Rabbi. Have they been keeping time since God told Moses about Adam and Eve? And God told Moses how old the Earth was and he recorded it for them? Or did Adam and Eve keep a record of time that they found?
 
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miamited

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Of course God can do anything, but it is bit silly to live your life thinking that maybe you were created 5 seconds ago with embedded memories. That maybe you are a dream, or a computer simulation , or shadow dancing on the cave wall witnessing Jesus bathing and getting sentient because of that or something.

Physical reality is explored by science. If you have to all the time go to explanation that everything is possible to God to refute the physical evidence we have discovered through multiple different areas of science you are just using blind faith and should not try to explain anything.

Just say God did and you do not care how or why. Like Dad and AV =)

Do not try to invent a reason God would have made light go slower to fit the Bible narrative.

Ever wonder if God can do anything why didn`t He make the Bible something that explained everything or why HE does not arrange new copies every 200 years to drop from the sky ?

Hi JW,

I don't live my life thinking that I was born 5 seconds ago or that I'm some computer simulation or any of the other gibberish that you're trying to analogize to my understanding. I'm merely taking the Scriptures at their face value. I'm doing as Paul proscribed for the children of God... to study the Scriptures to show oneself approved. I'm merely accepting Jesus' words that God's word is truth.

As I asked of another poster, there are evidences within the Scriptures that God has fairly regularly done things with the natural properties of this created realm that are beyond explanation or understanding through any scientific methodology.

God's word declares that there was a day that one of God's prophets stood before a king and through that prophet God made a prophetic declaration. God then had the prophet ask the king what He (God) could do to give the king assurance that this prophecy would come to pass? The prophet said to the king, shall God cause the shadow upon a flight of stairs to go forward or backward? The king, understanding that it really wouldn't be such an impossible feat for the shadow to go forward because all one would have to do for that to happen was to just wait as the sun traveled across the sky, asked that the shadow go backward. You see, the king understood that a shadow cast by the sun going backwards would be an impossible event as we know the operation of the natural properties of this created realm. According to the Scriptures, God caused the shadow to go backwards the distance of 10 steps upon the stairs.

Now, we can read this and say to ourselves, "Oh, what a great story to be told, that even though it really didn't happen, shows what Israel thought of the power of God." Or, we can read that account and come to understand that God really can do what is impossible, just as God's word also declares. I choose to believe the latter. But this isn't just some stand alone example of the power of God over His created realm. There are just so many, many accounts of the power of God over the natural properties of this physical realm.

That some sort of fiery brimstone would rain down from heaven to destroy two cities. That a flood could cover the entire earth. That a human being would instantly be turned into a pillar of salt. That in a certain city the rivers and all the groundwater would become blood. That on a given night every firstborn of both men and cattle would die on that single night from no apparent cause. That a type of food would appear like dew on the ground for six days a week, but never on the seventh. That a sea would open a gaping crevasse in which water stood as a sentinel on both the right and the left of a huge body of people passing through it.

So, when someone says to me, "Oh, that's impossible that the created realm in which we live was only created some 6,000 years ago", I just shrug and say, yes, that's how we know that God did it. He is the only one who can do such impossible things. I also stand upon the words of the Scriptures. It is what the Scriptures tell me concerning this marvelous and powerful work of God to create a realm of existence for a creature that He loves and desires to know and live in relationship with pretty much the same as He desires to live in relationship with all the angels that He also created. One day, when the plan of God's salvation is fully realized and the number of His children is complete, He will also bring it all to a close pretty much as fast as He brought it all into being. We will then see with our own eyes the power that God has over what He creates.

In that day we will realize the full futility of man's wisdom to date God's creation with the natural laws that we know exist in the creation. Until then, however, unless one fully realizes and comes to appreciate the true power of God, we will be deceived by such thinking. We will continue to fulfill God's truth that there is no one righteous. No, not one. We will live as unbelievers in the truth of God. There will always be this same doubting thought that Satan put into Eve's thinking. Did God really say?

I, however, disagree that those who believe God's word are expressing some sort of 'blind' faith. It's just faith that of all the accounts we have of how and when we got to June 25, 2019, God's word tells us the truth. That God's word is true despite the wisdom and understanding of man.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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miamited

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I think the Jewish calendar is most accurate as to how old the Earth is since the creation of Adam and Eve (It's currently the year 5779 in their calendar). So creation is almost 6,000 years old currently. I mean the Jews gave us the OT so why shouldn't we trust their account of creation? They've apparently been keeping time since the beginning.

I'm honestly not educated as to how they know though. I'd have to ask a Rabbi. Have they been keeping time since God told Moses about Adam and Eve? And God told Moses how old the Earth was and he recorded it for them? Or did Adam and Eve keep a record of time that they found?

Hi neostarwcc,

I agree! Everything that we know about the God who created this realm and loves us and desires to know us; everything that we understand about God's salvation that is available to us, came through the Jew.

God called Abram and established through him a nation of people that were to be known to the world as His people. It is through His people that He has made everything that He desires us to know about Him, known. The creation account, the law, the creation of the nation of Israel as His people and the coming of His Messiah were all told to us through writings that He specifically and only gave unto the people of Israel. This is what Paul writes about them. That it is the Jew that was entrusted with the very oracles of God.

So, I agree, even though they strayed and didn't get it all correct as to their own understanding of what God was doing through them and wanted of them, God was still able to reveal Himself to all the rest of us through the Jew. When I sit back and think on all that I know about God, there literally is not one single point that comes to my mind that I don't understand the basic understanding comes from the Scriptures. The book that God cobbled together through the work of the hands of Jews. Nothing!!! Absolutely nothing that I know that I know about God came from some other source than the Scriptures that God caused to be delivered unto mankind through His work with His people.

This is why God calls Israel His people. They were raised up for the very purpose of delivering to us the truth of God. So yes, I agree, that if the calendar of Israel is pretty much in line with the account of time as we find in God's Scriptures, it's likely pretty correct. Now, could it be off by a few years? Maybe even as much as a thousand? Maybe, but I'd ask for better proof than possible scribal errors.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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miamited

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Hi mike,

Let me also make one final point on this issue of the creation being about 6,000 years old or 7,000 years old. While it isn't earth shattering to hold either position, I question why, if the 7,000 year position is believed to be the truth, that there doesn't seem to have been a single translator, over all the last thousand years of translating the Scriptures, that has incorporated the 'truth' of the age within their translating work.

You specifically mention that the ages of the fathers following Shem is shortened by 100 years. So, I felt compelled to look at comparison translations. Beginning with Arphaxad, out of 35 translations of the Scriptures, there is one, and it is the Septuagint translation that allows that Arphaxad was 135 years old when he had Shelah. Now, I believe myself to be a reasonably wise man with pretty normal thought processes and it comes to my mind that there must be a reason, that out of all these people who have given of their life's work to correctly, in their understanding, translate the Scriptures, that only one out of 35 adds the 100 years.

I believe, of many of these people who have taken upon themselves the task of translating the Scriptures, that they were likely many god-fearing people. That it was their deepest desire to correctly account for the words that they were translating. So, I just have to ask myself, why haven't any of these people seen fit to add in the 100 years? I believe, certainly of the translations in the last 50 years, that they all had the same evidences available to them that you are using. So, why haven't any of these translators seen fit to adjust the ages, if it is the truth that Arphaxad was indeed 135 years old when Shelah was born?

That fact alone gives me great pause to think that the addition of the 100 years is the error, and not the reduction of the 100 years.

You also wrote:
Also, there are 4 things that existed before light on day one: God, the heavens, the earth, and waters (Genesis 1:1–2)

I'm likewise in disagreement with you on that claim. Yes, God and His heaven existed before God's command that there be light in this realm. As to the two other things, I would respectfully disagree. The command that there be light in this realm, was the very first thing to exist in this created realm... as I understand the Scriptures.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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Ken Rank

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No man will know the day or the hour when Christ returns. The millennial reign is still in the future. All eyes will see the Lord coming in the clouds with great glory.

You've given yourself a difficult task, there. Go ahead, try counting forward from Adam, and let me know how it goes. List your sources.
List my sources? Do you own a bible? We have genealogies in various books all the way through Yeshua who we know was just over 2000 years ago. So, its simple math.
 
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You specifically mention that the ages of the fathers following Shem is shortened by 100 years. So, I felt compelled to look at comparison translations. Beginning with Arphaxad, out of 35 translations of the Scriptures, there is one, and it is the Septuagint translation that allows that Arphaxad was 135 years old when he had Shelah. Now, I believe myself to be a reasonably wise man with pretty normal thought processes and it comes to my mind that there must be a reason, that out of all these people who have given of their life's work to correctly, in their understanding, translate the Scriptures, that only one out of 35 adds the 100 years.

The 35 translations you refer to are derived from the Masoretic Text (MT) version of the Old Testament. This is the version of the Bible I was brought up on, and still use (specifically the King James Version). Bible Gateway provides 60 English translations of the MT. Most of them are closely translated. But a few of them, like the Amplified Bible, adds whole phrases inserted between verses (see Rev. 22:18–19). These 35 or 60 versions of the Old Testament come from a group of Jews known as the Masoretes between the 7th and 10th centuries AD who transcribed Hebrew into Hebrew. It is not the original text of the Hebrew Bible: the original text has never been found. The oldest extant manuscripts of the MT date from around the 9th century.

The Septuagint (LXX) is the earliest extant Koine Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament. The LXX was translated by the 2nd century BC and was in wide use by the time of Jesus and Paul because most Jews could no longer read Hebrew.

Since the invention of the Gutenberg printing press ca. 1453, production of the Bible has been easier but also more frequent, with more personal taste. Lets take Daniel 9 for example. The 1599 Geneva Bible (used by the Puritans on the Mayflower) on Dan. 9:26–27 says,

"And after threescore and two [62] weeks, shall Messiah be slain, and shall have nothing, and the people of the prince that shall come, shall destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and the end thereof shall be with a flood: and unto the end of the battle it shall be destroyed by desolations.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Now compare with the Amplified Bible:

"Then after the sixty-two weeks [of years] the Anointed One will be cut off [and denied His Messianic kingdom] and have nothing [and no one to defend Him], and the people of the [other] prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

"And he will enter into a binding and irrevocable covenant with the many for one week (seven years), but in the middle of the week he will stop the sacrifice and grain offering [for the remaining three and one-half years]; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until the complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who causes the horror."

See how a newer translation can add words and change meanings? The Septuagint is older, and could even be more accurate, since it is based on an older copy of the Hebrew.

Also, the Masoretic Text states that the Israelites sojourn in Egypt was 430 years, and presumably enslaved there for that long. The MT version of Exodus 12:40 says,

"So the dwelling of the children of Israel, while they dwelled in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years."

But the Septuagint says, "the sojourning of the children of Israel, while they sojourned in the land of Egypt and the land of Canaan, was four hundred and thirty years."

If the Masoretic Text is used, the four hundred and thirty years (Ex. 12:40) would begin when Jacob reunited with Joseph in Egypt, but noting the lifespans of Levi, Kohath, and Amram (Moses' ancestors), each of them would have had to begotten their sons an average of 5 years before dying at ripe, old ages of about 136. Since it was difficult for Abraham to have a child when he was one hundred years old (Gen. 17:17), it is highly unlikely that Levi, Kohath, and Amram all begot children at about 131 and then died 5 years later.

Using the Septuagint, the four hundred and thirty years began when Abraham entered Canaan with Lot. This would make the sojourn in Egypt only two hundred and fifteen years, which agrees with Gal. 3:17 in either translation, and the enslavement of the Israelites about one hundred twenty-five years (Ex. 1:6–11). God called Abraham in 2020 BC, whereupon he left and entered Canaan at age 75 (Gen. 12:4). Twenty-five years later he begot Isaac (Gen. 21:5), and sixty years later Isaac begot Jacob (Gen 25:26). Jacob was 130 when he entered Egypt with all of his children. So doing the math, 25+60+130=215 years, and 2020 BC–215 years=1805 BC. And since they were in Egypt AND Canaan a total of 430 years, all of the Israelites were in Egypt for 215 years, until 1590 BC. 215 years between Canaan and Egypt, and 215 in Egypt.

Jacob was 85 when he had Levi, and Levi lived 137 years (Ex. 6:16). Levi's son, Kohath, lived 133 years (Ex. 6:18). Kohath's son, Amram, lived 137 years (Ex. 6:20). Moses was 80 when he spoke to Pharaoh at the time of the exodus (Ex. 7:6). So working backwards from 1590 BC 80 years to Moses' birth (1590+80=1670 BC), it provides for 180 years for the 3 generations from Kohath to Moses (1850 BC–1670 BC=135 years). Sixty years was a prime age to have children back then. If you use the Masoretic Text, each ancestor had their child at about 131 years old, then died 5 years later. This is only for the purpose of a fun exercise, if you ask me. But someone may want to know the true age of the earth, in contrast to scientists who try to extrapolate past 7,000 years ago, without knowing the atmospheric conditions of an antediluvian biosphere, and assuming the flood didn't happen.

I tend to trust older translations of the Bible to newer ones.
 
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SkyWriting

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BiblicalTimeline.jpg

4941 BC: Creation of light, the sky, dry land, vegetation, the planets, the sun, the moon, the stars, sea creatures, and birds
4940 BC: Creation of man
3953 BC: Enoch taken away
3284 BC: The flood
3200 BC: Mesopotamia, Aegean Civilization, and Indus Valley Civilization emerge
3150 BC: Ancient Egypt emerges
2748 BC: Tower of Babel
2686–2181 BC: Age of the Pyramids
2600 BC: Kesh Temple Hymn, Instructions of Shuruppak
2400 BC: Pyramid Texts, Palermo Stone, Barton Cylinder, Code of Urukagina
2350 BC: The Maxims of Ptahhotep
2270 BC: Enheduanna's Hymns
2100 BC: Curse of Akkad, Epic of Gilgamesh, Ziggurat of Ur
2070 BC: Ancient China emerges
2052–1877 BC: Abraham
2050 BC: Code of Ur-Nammu
2000 BC: Sumerian King List, Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta
1977 BC: The call of Abram
1952–1772 BC: Isaac
1892–1745 BC: Jacob
1859–1840 BC: The Eloquent Peasant, Story of Sinuhe
1806–1669 BC: Levi
1762 BC: Jacob goes to Egypt
1650–1547 BC: Hyksos in Egypt
1650 BC: Ipuwer Papyrus
1627–1507 BC: Moses
1600 BC: Eridu Genesis, Code of the Nesilim
1550 BC: Book of the Dead
1547 BC: Exodus
1507 BC: Pentateuch
1507 BC: Israelites cross Jordan River into Canaan
1507–1500 BC: Joshua judges during conquest of Canaan
1500 BC: Poor Man of Nippur, Dynasty of Dunnum
1400 BC: Olmec Civilization (Mesoamerica) emerges
1050–1010 BC: Saul reigns
1010–970 BC: David reigns
970–930 BC: Solomon reigns
967–960 BC: Solomon's Temple built
930 BC: Division of the United Monarchy
870–842 BC: Elijah
609 BC: Battle of Megiddo
588–586 BC: Siege of Jerusalem
539 BC: Battle of Opis
538–516 BC: Second Temple built
500–300 BC: Hinduism/Buddhism emerges
458 BC: Artaxerxes' letter to Ezra
409 BC: Jerusalem restored & rebuilt
332 BC: Siege of Tyre
301 BC: Battle of Ipsus
198 BC: Battle of Panium
167–160 BC: Maccabean Revolt
63 BC: Siege of Jerusalem
5 BC–AD 30: Jesus Christ

AD 2060 will be the 7,000th year since creation!

Adam was the first enlighted man, not the first man.
He was the first that was remade into God's image.
 
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SkyWriting

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Hi lost4words,

I'm awfully sorry to disappoint you, but...

I'm not only telling you that I believe the earth to be about 6k years old, but I find confirmation in my spirit that it actually is approximately 6,000 years old.

You see, for me, science holds no sway over God's word. Science is the work of man. It does study the things of God's creation, and it is very good for explaining to us the 'how' things work in the here and now, but it can't possibly prove assumptions made of the distant past. That is all done merely by assumption and extrapolation if all of the variables and conditions are as they are now.

The God that I know, while He created light, in its natural state to travel at the speed of 186,000 mps, can, by the command of His voice, make it travel even faster or slower than that. Let me ask you, if I may. How do you explain the shadow cast by the sun on a mid-afternoon day to go backwards the distance of 10 steps?

God bless,
in Christ, ted

Scientific observation shows the worlds as God made it. As well as it's properties.
God doesn't alter it's properties anymore than God would use his arm to think with.
 
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miamited

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Scientific observation shows the worlds as God made it. As well as it's properties.
God doesn't alter it's properties anymore than God would use his arm to think with.

Hi @SkyWriting

Perhaps you could explain to me how a sea of water can stand unaided by any kind of support system to create a wall of water on both sides of a crevasse. Ooh, ooh, I've got an even better one. Train up a talking donkey for us. Oh no, here's an even better one. Show us how a shadow cast by the sun can go back the length of 10 steps.

I'll bet your God has used His arm to think with quite a lot if that's what it takes to alter the properties of the earth. LOL!!!! What a very silly statement to make, if one believes the Scriptures, that God doesn't alter the properties of the earth. It's also claimed that He caused the sun to stand still in the sky for nearly an entire day. He has also raised people from the dead. Show me how you do that based on the natural properties of the earth and the universe. Let's start with an easy one: make an ax head float!

God bless,
Ted
 
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