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Hello, everyone. Today I'll be arguing through early christian sources that the early Christians (c.100-325AD) believed in the Real Presence. I'm not a Catholic (or any denomination for that matter) so I've got no vested interest in defending this doctrine but I'm pointing out that the early Christians unanimously held this interpretation. I'll be going through in Chronological order from the very late 1st century century to the council of Nicaea, quotes about what the early Christians believed.

Before I begin I'd also like to add that the Pre-Nicean days, the Communion was an actual weekly meal on Sunday with fellow brothers and sisters of the local church rather than what it is today.

Quite the long piece so you may just want to look at the quotes and not the background to the writers and their works.

Without further a do.

The Didache (c.75 AD)


"You gave food and drink to men for enjoyment, that they might give thanks to You; but to us You freely gave spiritual food and drink and life eternal through Your Servant."

The Didache is the earliest treatise we have of the church. Written in the 2nd half of the first century, it's topics range from sharing all your possessions to baptism and is a good indicator of how the earliest Christians live. It references the Eucharist twice in chapter 9 and chapter 14.

The context behind this quote is how should one conduct the Eucharist and what should happen whilst it's consumed.

Ignatius of Antioch:

Epistle to the Romans (c.108 AD)

"I desire the bread of God, the heavenly bread, the bread of life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became afterwards of the seed of David and Abraham; and I desire the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life"

Ignatius of Antioch was the supervisor of the church in Antioch; which was the main area for Christians in his time; and was appointed by that position by the Apostle John (and there's the possibility that he may have been appointed by other Apostles too).

The Epistle to the Romans is a letter said by Ignatius to those in Rome. The letter interestingly doesn't mention a bishop residing in said church unlike his other six letters. He wrote all his letters on his way to be martyred.

The context behind the quote is things you should desire.

Epistle to the Smyrneans (c.108 AD)

"Gnostics abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, who suffered for our sins and which the Father, out of his goodness, raised up again."


(As a caveat, I think it's wrong and utterly ridiculous to try and claim that those who don't believe this interpretation are Gnostics. That's completely misunderstanding Ignatius and the context. Obviously you can deny that the bread and wine are the actual body and blood without being a Gnostic. The point is at this time, only Gnostics were denying the literalist view.)

The Epistle to the Smyrneans was a letter written by Ignatius to those in the church of Smyra.

The context behind this quote is showing the illogical stance of Gnostics and their beliefs who were a major problem in Ignatius' time. One of his main themes of his work is stay close to the bishop due to the influence of the Gnostics.

Epistle to the Trallians (c.108 AD)

Clothe yourselves with meekness and be renewed in faith that is, the flesh of the Lord and in love that is, the blood of Jesus Christ.

The Epistle of the Trallians deals with the role such as the bishop and what early Christians should do.

For the early Christians, the communion was a really big help to their faith and regenerated them so to speak. It was considered one of the sacred parts of the faith.

Justin Martyr:

Fist Apology (c.150 AD)

"For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these, but in the same way as Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of his word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh."



Justin Martyr was a early to mid 2nd century Christian and arguably the first apologist.

First apology is also probably the first apologetic work and is written to the Emperor Antoninus Pius .


The context here is that Martyr is demonstrating that the bread and wine isn't just normal bread or wine as ;someone who would know little of the faith would think; but it quite literally been changed by their God.

Dialogue with Trypho (c.160 AD)



"(Justin quotes Malachi 1:10-12)'I have no pleasure in you, says the Lord; and I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands: for, from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same, My name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure offering: for My name is great among the Gentiles, says the Lord: but you profane it.'He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane."

Dialogue to Trypho was a dialogue between a Christian (Justin) and a Jew (Trypho). I highly doubt this conversation and Trypho ever existed, Justin just uses the character to explain Jewish thoughts.

Justin uses Malachi to demonstrate that Christian sacrifice is greater than those of the Jews.



Irenaeus of Lyons:

Against Heresies Book 4 (c.180 AD)


"How can be consistent with themselves (referring to Gnostics) , that the bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup his blood, if they do not call him the Son of the Creator of the world, that is, his Word... Then, again, how can they say that the flesh, which is nourished with the body of the Lord and with his blood, goes to corruption but does not partake of life?"

Irenaeus was a mid to late 2nd century Christian who was a disciple of Polycarp (who was good friends with Ignatius) who in turn was a disciple of the Apostle John. He traveled all the way from his home church in Smyrna to Lyons in modern day France

Against Heresies is Irenaeus' work against all those early beliefs which were against the Orthodox faith. Quite the long work.

The context of this is that Gnostics are illogical when it came to their beliefs when compared to the Eucharist.

"Our opinion is in accordance with the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn establishes our opinion. We offer to him his own, announcing consistently the fellowship and union of the flesh and spirit. For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, when it receives the invocation of God, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly. So also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of resurrection to eternity."


Very similar context to the one above.

Against Heresies Book 5(c.180 AD)

"And as we are His members, we are also nourished by means of the creation ... He has acknowledged the cup as his own blood, from which he covers our blood; and he has established the bread as his own body, from which he gives increase to our bodies... The blessed Paul declares in his letter to the Ephesians that "we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones". He does not speak these words of some spiritual and invisible man, for a spirit does not have bones or flesh, but of that dispensation of an actual man, consisting of flesh, nerves, and bones—that same flesh which is nourished by the cup which is his blood and receives increase from the bread which is his body."

Very similar context to one above. Maybe he's also demonstrating that Jesus clearly physically existed.

Clement of Alexandria

The Instructor Book 1 (195 AD)

"Here is to be noted the mystery of the bread... But since He said, "And the bread which I will give is My flesh," and since flesh is moistened with blood, and blood is figuratively termed wine, we are attempting to know that, as bread, crumbled into a mixture of wine and water, seizes on the wine and leaves the watery portion, so also the flesh of Christ, the bread of heaven absorbs the blood; that is, those among men who are heavenly, nourishing them up to immortality, and leaving only to destruction the lusts of the flesh."

Clement of Alexandria was Christian living between the late 2nd and early third centuries. He was quite influence and was a pioneer to the Alexandrian school of thought.

The Instructor was the first part of Clement's trilogy of works and is a description of how a Christian should live.

Here Clement is quite simply explaining the Communion.

The Instructor Book 2 (195 AD)

"To drink the blood of Jesus, is to become partaker of the Lord's immortality."

Quite self explanatory.

Tertullian:

Against
Marcion (c. 208AD)

"He declared plainly enough what He meant by the bread, when He called the bread His own body. He likewise, when mentioning the cup and making the new testament to be sealed in His blood"

Tertullian was Christian living in the 1st and 2nd century and lived in Carthage. He probably has the most books survive after him and was quite influence for his time.

Against Marcion was against the heretic Marcion (arguably a Gnostic but it's debatable) who believed that the God in the Old and New Testaments were different and that Paul was the only true Apostle.

Tertullian is just showing the simplicity of the view that the early church took.

Hippolytus:

Apostolic Tradition (c. 215AD)

"Let all take care that no unbaptized person taste of the Eucharist nor a mouse or other animal, and that none of it at all fall and be lost. For it is the Body of Christ to be eaten by them that believe and not to be thought of lightly."


Hippolytus was a Christian living in Rome and may have been a disciple of Irenaeus. He was sadly an antipope during the early 3rd century but reconciled with the church near his death.

Apostolic Tradition is 2nd century beliefs, tracts and treatises that Hippolytus wrote down due to the fact that he fought that they were being lost. They aren't his original work but rather other Christians.

The context here is demonstrating how important the Eucharist actually is.

Cyprian:

Epistle 10 (c.250 AD)

"those presbyters, contrary to the Gospel law, contrary also to your respectful petition, before penitence was fulfilled, before confession even of the gravest and most heinous sin was made, before hands were placed upon the repentant by the bishops and clergy, dare to offer on their behalf, and to give them the eucharist, that is, to profane the sacred body of the Lord."

Cyprian was a Christian living in Carthage in the mid 3rd century and a disciple of Tertullian. He was the bishop of Carthage during the crisis' of the Decian Persecution and the Novatianist schism.

Epistle 10 was one over Cyprian's letters which were quite numerous in number (over 8- to be precise).

The context of this Epistle is what after the Decian Persecution, those that fell away from the church wanted to come back and even though the African bishops universally agreed that it should be about ten years of repentance (though it could be until your deathbed for some) until you could take communion again but some presbyters were bringing people back to communion only after a very short time.


Epistle 55 (c.250 AD)

"considering that they drink the cup of Christ’s blood daily, for the reason that they themselves also may be able to shed their blood for Christ."

The context behind this quote is that those Christians who are imprisoned get communion daily; when it was usually a weekly meal; due to their situation. It was to keep their spirits up and to prepare them for a martyrdom that might occur.

Dionysus of Alexandria:

Epistle 8 to Sixtus II (258 AD)

"For I should not dare to renew afresh, after all, one who had heard the giving of thanks, and who had answered with others Amen; who had stood at the holy table, and had stretched forth his hands to receive the blessed food, and had received it, and for a very long time had been a partaker of the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Dionysus was the bishop of Alexandria in the mid 3rd century. Like Cyprian he was bishop during the Decian Persecution and the Novatianist schism.

The correspondence with Pope Sixtus make light references to the Schism and ultimately Dionysus' view was that the Eucharist should be offered to anyone on their deathbed even if they had broken from the faith.

Peter of Alexandria:

Canonical Epistle (c.305 AD)

"But to those who have been delivered up, and have fallen, who also of their own accord have approached the contest, confessing themselves to be Christians, and have been tormented and thrown into prison, it is right with joy and exultation of heart to add strength, and to communicate to them in all things, both in prayer, and in partaking of the body and blood of Christ"

(I don't know enough about Peter to comment on him)

Canonical Epistle was written during the Diocletian Persecution (303-311AD)

Personal conjecture: You forget about this part if you want to.
*There is some ambiguity to what the early church exactly meant due to the looseness and context, I do rejected both the purely symbolic view (which is historically and biblically unsound) and an extreme view on Transubstantiation (which goes against the "spiritualist" teachings of the Early Church and becomes idolatrous). Though the Early Church were nearly always literal when it came to Jesus' teachings they were more figurative (not symbolical) when it came to other stuff. I would be fine with something like the Sacramental Union or the Eastern Orthodox View but even some forms of Transubstantiation are great too*
 
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Tigger45

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Anyone who doesn’t see the ‘real presence’ taught and practiced biblically and throughout church history simply chooses not to see it and therefore will not see it.
 
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HTacianas

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Hello, everyone. Today I'll be arguing through early christian sources that the early Christians (c.100-325AD) believed in the Real Presence. I'm not a Catholic (or any denomination for that matter) so I've got no vested interest in defending this doctrine but I'm pointing out that the early Christians unanimously held this interpretation. I'll be going through in Chronological order from the very late 1st century century to the council of Nicaea, quotes about what the early Christians believed.

Before I begin I'd also like to add that the Pre-Nicean days, the Communion was an actual weekly meal on Sunday with fellow brothers and sisters of the local church rather than what it is today.

Quite the long piece so you may just want to look at the quotes and not the background to the writers and their works.

Without further a do.

The Didache (c.75 AD)


"You gave food and drink to men for enjoyment, that they might give thanks to You; but to us You freely gave spiritual food and drink and life eternal through Your Servant."

The Didache is the earliest treatise we have of the church. Written in the 2nd half of the first century, it's topics range from sharing all your possessions to baptism and is a good indicator of how the earliest Christians live. It references the Eucharist twice in chapter 9 and chapter 14.

The context behind this quote is how should one conduct the Eucharist and what should happen whilst it's consumed.

Ignatius of Antioch:

Epistle to the Romans (c.108 AD)

"I desire the bread of God, the heavenly bread, the bread of life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became afterwards of the seed of David and Abraham; and I desire the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life"

Ignatius of Antioch was the supervisor of the church in Antioch; which was the main area for Christians in his time; and was appointed by that position by the Apostle John (and there's the possibility that he may have been appointed by other Apostles too).

The Epistle to the Romans is a letter said by Ignatius to those in Rome. The letter interestingly doesn't mention a bishop residing in said church unlike his other six letters. He wrote all his letters on his way to be martyred.

The context behind the quote is things you should desire.

Epistle to the Smyrneans (c.108 AD)

"Gnostics abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, who suffered for our sins and which the Father, out of his goodness, raised up again."


(As a caveat, I think it's wrong and utterly ridiculous to try and claim that those who don't believe this interpretation are Gnostics. That's completely misunderstanding Ignatius and the context. Obviously you can deny that the bread and wine are the actual body and blood without being a Gnostic. The point is at this time, only Gnostics were denying the literalist view.)

The Epistle to the Smyrneans was a letter written by Ignatius to those in the church of Smyra.

The context behind this quote is showing the illogical stance of Gnostics and their beliefs who were a major problem in Ignatius' time. One of his main themes of his work is stay close to the bishop due to the influence of the Gnostics.

Epistle to the Trallians (c.108 AD)

Clothe yourselves with meekness and be renewed in faith that is, the flesh of the Lord and in love that is, the blood of Jesus Christ.

The Epistle of the Trallians deals with the role such as the bishop and what early Christians should do.

For the early Christians, the communion was a really big help to their faith and regenerated them so to speak. It was considered one of the sacred parts of the faith.

Justin Martyr:

Fist Apology (c.150 AD)

"For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these, but in the same way as Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of his word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh."



Justin Martyr was a early to mid 2nd century Christian and arguably the first apologist.

First apology is also probably the first apologetic work and is written to the Emperor Antoninus Pius .


The context here is that Martyr is demonstrating that the bread and wine isn't just normal bread or wine as ;someone who would know little of the faith would think; but it quite literally been changed by their God.

Dialogue with Trypho (c.160 AD)



"(Justin quotes Malachi 1:10-12)'I have no pleasure in you, says the Lord; and I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands: for, from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same, My name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure offering: for My name is great among the Gentiles, says the Lord: but you profane it.'He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane."

Dialogue to Trypho was a dialogue between a Christian (Justin) and a Jew (Trypho). I highly doubt this conversation and Trypho ever existed, Justin just uses the character to explain Jewish thoughts.

Justin uses Malachi to demonstrate that Christian sacrifice is greater than those of the Jews.



Irenaeus of Lyons:

Against Heresies Book 4 (c.180 AD)


"How can be consistent with themselves (referring to Gnostics) , that the bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup his blood, if they do not call him the Son of the Creator of the world, that is, his Word... Then, again, how can they say that the flesh, which is nourished with the body of the Lord and with his blood, goes to corruption but does not partake of life?"

Irenaeus was a mid to late 2nd century Christian who was a disciple of Polycarp (who was good friends with Ignatius) who in turn was a disciple of the Apostle John. He traveled all the way from his home church in Smyrna to Lyons in modern day France

Against Heresies is Irenaeus' work against all those early beliefs which were against the Orthodox faith. Quite the long work.

The context of this is that Gnostics are illogical when it came to their beliefs when compared to the Eucharist.

"Our opinion is in accordance with the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn establishes our opinion. We offer to him his own, announcing consistently the fellowship and union of the flesh and spirit. For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, when it receives the invocation of God, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly. So also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of resurrection to eternity."


Very similar context to the one above.

Against Heresies Book 5(c.180 AD)

"And as we are His members, we are also nourished by means of the creation ... He has acknowledged the cup as his own blood, from which he covers our blood; and he has established the bread as his own body, from which he gives increase to our bodies... The blessed Paul declares in his letter to the Ephesians that "we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones". He does not speak these words of some spiritual and invisible man, for a spirit does not have bones or flesh, but of that dispensation of an actual man, consisting of flesh, nerves, and bones—that same flesh which is nourished by the cup which is his blood and receives increase from the bread which is his body."

Very similar context to one above. Maybe he's also demonstrating that Jesus clearly physically existed.

Clement of Alexandria

The Instructor Book 1 (195 AD)

"Here is to be noted the mystery of the bread... But since He said, "And the bread which I will give is My flesh," and since flesh is moistened with blood, and blood is figuratively termed wine, we are attempting to know that, as bread, crumbled into a mixture of wine and water, seizes on the wine and leaves the watery portion, so also the flesh of Christ, the bread of heaven absorbs the blood; that is, those among men who are heavenly, nourishing them up to immortality, and leaving only to destruction the lusts of the flesh."

Clement of Alexandria was Christian living between the late 2nd and early third centuries. He was quite influence and was a pioneer to the Alexandrian school of thought.

The Instructor was the first part of Clement's trilogy of works and is a description of how a Christian should live.

Here Clement is quite simply explaining the Communion.

The Instructor Book 2 (195 AD)

"To drink the blood of Jesus, is to become partaker of the Lord's immortality."

Quite self explanatory.

Tertullian:

Against
Marcion (c. 208AD)

"He declared plainly enough what He meant by the bread, when He called the bread His own body. He likewise, when mentioning the cup and making the new testament to be sealed in His blood"

Tertullian was Christian living in the 1st and 2nd century and lived in Carthage. He probably has the most books survive after him and was quite influence for his time.

Against Marcion was against the heretic Marcion (arguably a Gnostic but it's debatable) who believed that the God in the Old and New Testaments were different and that Paul was the only true Apostle.

Tertullian is just showing the simplicity of the view that the early church took.

Hippolytus:

Apostolic Tradition (c. 215AD)

"Let all take care that no unbaptized person taste of the Eucharist nor a mouse or other animal, and that none of it at all fall and be lost. For it is the Body of Christ to be eaten by them that believe and not to be thought of lightly."


Hippolytus was a Christian living in Rome and may have been a disciple of Irenaeus. He was sadly an antipope during the early 3rd century but reconciled with the church near his death.

Apostolic Tradition is 2nd century beliefs, tracts and treatises that Hippolytus wrote down due to the fact that he fought that they were being lost. They aren't his original work but rather other Christians.

The context here is demonstrating how important the Eucharist actually is.

Cyprian:

Epistle 10 (c.250 AD)

"those presbyters, contrary to the Gospel law, contrary also to your respectful petition, before penitence was fulfilled, before confession even of the gravest and most heinous sin was made, before hands were placed upon the repentant by the bishops and clergy, dare to offer on their behalf, and to give them the eucharist, that is, to profane the sacred body of the Lord."

Cyprian was a Christian living in Carthage in the mid 3rd century and a disciple of Tertullian. He was the bishop of Carthage during the crisis' of the Decian Persecution and the Novatianist schism.

Epistle 10 was one over Cyprian's letters which were quite numerous in number (over 8- to be precise).

The context of this Epistle is what after the Decian Persecution, those that fell away from the church wanted to come back and even though the African bishops universally agreed that it should be about ten years of repentance (though it could be until your deathbed for some) until you could take communion again but some presbyters were bringing people back to communion only after a very short time.


Epistle 55 (c.250 AD)

"considering that they drink the cup of Christ’s blood daily, for the reason that they themselves also may be able to shed their blood for Christ."

The context behind this quote is that those Christians who are imprisoned get communion daily; when it was usually a weekly meal; due to their situation. It was to keep their spirits up and to prepare them for a martyrdom that might occur.

Dionysus of Alexandria:

Epistle 8 to Sixtus II (258 AD)

"For I should not dare to renew afresh, after all, one who had heard the giving of thanks, and who had answered with others Amen; who had stood at the holy table, and had stretched forth his hands to receive the blessed food, and had received it, and for a very long time had been a partaker of the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Dionysus was the bishop of Alexandria in the mid 3rd century. Like Cyprian he was bishop during the Decian Persecution and the Novatianist schism.

The correspondence with Pope Sixtus make light references to the Schism and ultimately Dionysus' view was that the Eucharist should be offered to anyone on their deathbed even if they had broken from the faith.

Peter of Alexandria:

Canonical Epistle (c.305 AD)

"But to those who have been delivered up, and have fallen, who also of their own accord have approached the contest, confessing themselves to be Christians, and have been tormented and thrown into prison, it is right with joy and exultation of heart to add strength, and to communicate to them in all things, both in prayer, and in partaking of the body and blood of Christ"

(I don't know enough about Peter to comment on him)

Canonical Epistle was written during the Diocletian Persecution (303-311AD)

Personal conjecture: You forget about this part if you want to.
*There is some ambiguity to what the early church exactly meant due to the looseness and context, I do rejected both the purely symbolic view (which is historically and biblically unsound) and an extreme view on Transubstantiation (which goes against the "spiritualist" teachings of the Early Church and becomes idolatrous). Though the Early Church were nearly always literal when it came to Jesus' teachings they were more figurative (not symbolical) when it came to other stuff. I would be fine with something like the Sacramental Union or the Eastern Orthodox View but even some forms of Transubstantiation are great too*

You're correct in saying the early Christians believed that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ. That was the universal belief of the Church in those days and is the belief of the Church today. And it is not from an "interpretation" of the bible, because it was the belief of the Church before the new testament was written. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, not to instruct them on the Eucharist, but to remind them of what they had already been taught. In writing to them he identifies the Eucharist as the body and blood of Christ, and that it is a sacrifice.

1Co 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1Co 10:17 For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.

1Co 10:18 Observe Israel after the flesh: Are not those who eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

1Co 10:19 What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything?

1Co 10:20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons.

1Co 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons.
 
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prodromos

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"Do this in Remembrance of me."
The concepts of "αναμνησιν" and "remembrance" are not equivalent. "αναμνησιν" means "to make present", which is the understanding of the early Church as demonstrated by the OP.
 
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Of the Kingdom

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The concepts of "αναμνησιν" and "remembrance" are not equivalent. "αναμνησιν" means "to make present", which is the understanding of the early Church as demonstrated by the OP.

Indeed, this appears in the English word. To re - member is to again make present, to "put the arms and legs back" in some sense.
 
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Just Another User

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"Do this in Remembrance of me."

Yeah so that's the problem when we look at English translations they're sometimes struggle to translate some words. The words for remembrance is "anamnesin". It may be more apt to translate it as having an "positive calling of the person to mind" and "the awakening of ones own mind" to someone/something rather than "remembrance." (I've based that on Vine dictionary)

As prodromos said, it is a lot better to say "to make present" rather that just to remember something from the past.

The helpful thing about the early Christians is that since practically all of them wrote and spoke Koine Greek as their first language if not their second it can help us determine certain passages. Clearly, they didn't think it was just symbolical.
 
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FireDragon76

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Memorialism rests on philosophical assumptions that were alien to the ancient world. It was a world in which signs participated in the thing they represented, implicitly. Names had implicit power, blessing had an actual reality, etc. It was not a world riddled with philosophical nominalism.
 
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Just Another User

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Memorialism rests on philosophical assumptions that were alien to the ancient world. It was a world in which signs participated in the thing they represented, implicitly. Names had implicit power, blessing had an actual reality, etc. It was not a world riddled with philosophical nominalism.

I knew that some aspects of memorialism were foreign especially to the Romans but I didn't know it was completely missing. Do you know any works on the issue so I could delve deeper into it?
 
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HatGuy

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This is wonderfully comprehensive, thank you.

I found your comments on the practice (a meal in the home) interesting. Many churches which practice Real Presence seem to indicate that sharing the Meal at home, or sharing it just with yourself, is only allowed under desperate circumstances. Is this the case with the early church, however?
 
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GreekOrthodox

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This is wonderfully comprehensive, thank you.

I found your comments on the practice (a meal in the home) interesting. Many churches which practice Real Presence seem to indicate that sharing the Meal at home, or sharing it just with yourself, is only allowed under desperate circumstances. Is this the case with the early church, however?

Historically, it was part of a communal meal that over time was moved into the Sunday morning liturgy. Even by the middle of the second century, the Sunday morning service was the main service as a community. Justin Martyr wrote

Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands.

And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ge’noito [so be it].

And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

So deacons would take the bread and wine to those who were unable to make it. As for taking it alone, the Orthodox liturgy cannot even be done with just a single priest. There has to be at least one other person present.
 
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Historically, it was part of a communal meal that over time was moved into the Sunday morning liturgy. Even by the middle of the second century, the Sunday morning service was the main service as a community. Justin Martyr wrote

Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands.

And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ge’noito [so be it].

And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

So deacons would take the bread and wine to those who were unable to make it. As for taking it alone, the Orthodox liturgy cannot even be done with just a single priest. There has to be at least one other person present.
Thank you! Some stuff to think about there.
 
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