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Featured early Christian versus modern Christian

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Jesusthekingofking, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Right. It was the entrance to the city, and it was small enough that camels had to get down awkwardly in order to navigate it. Naturally that was difficult--which was the point of the Bible verse--but it wasn't impossible, either. If it were about a camel passing through the opening in a sewing needle, that would obviously be impossible, in which case the point of the lesson would be lost.
     
  2. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    It isn't meant to be taken literally. Jesus is merely pointing out that the wealthy have a tendency to put their trust in riches rather than God. Most of the great men of the old testament were wealthy landowners, including Abraham, Job, David, Solomon etc. Wealth isn't the problem, it's putting trust in those riches that's the problem.
     
  3. Agallagher

    Agallagher Slow learner.

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    I believe reflecting on the scriptures; Jesus Christ is mentioning about the ways of the world.

    Here is a scripture that might help;
    1 John 2:16 For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world.

    1 John 2:16 because all that is in the world -- the desire of the flesh, and the desire of the eyes, and the ostentation of the life -- is not of the Father, but of the world,

    We are allowed to work and have money, but it really depends on where your heart is.

    What do you find pride in your achievements, or possessions instead of looking towards God, being thankful, being grateful, and being forgiving, and being a cheerful giver of simply time, and love towards Him, and towards others?

    I could be wrong also.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  4. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    I bet they don't take it literally. A verse is only literal if it fits your pet doctrine, or it's convenient. If it's inconvenient, then it's figurative.
     
  5. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The original Christian Church donates millions of dollars annually to the care of those who are poor and needy.
     
  6. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    OK I will add this little tidbit. Some Bible translations have sold in recent times because of this verse! :)


    Matthew 19:24[edit]
    Some scholars[who?] of the Peshitta and the Greek New Testament claim that in Matthew 19:24 as the Aramaic word for 'camel' is written identically to the word for 'rope.' an error occurred due to the translator's limitations when the original scrolls were being transferred into Greek[citation needed]. This would mean Matthew 19:24 commonly translated as, 'It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.' Would read 'rope' instead of 'camel'. To support this they claim that rope, is much more in keeping with the imagery of a needle, and that it is probably what Jesus said, and what was originally recorded[citation needed]. Saint Cyril in his commentary on the Holy Gospel according to Luke (Luke 18:25) says that camel is the term used by those versed in navigation for a thick rope, thereby both stating that the term camel is the right one and that its meaning is that of a rope and not the animal[citation needed]. This suggests the Lamsa 'rope' translation is the more accurate "meaning" translation and 'camel' is the more accurate 1st century "slang" translation.


    Lamsa Bible - Wikipedia.



    Peshitta.jpg
     
  7. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

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    Of course, that verse is literal. It would take a miracle for a camel to do that, just as it takes the miracle of the new birth to enable a rich person, you, and me to enter the kingdom of God.
     
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  8. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    The U shaped gate that people entered under in ancient towns was apparently called the eye of a needle.

    Since Jesus said, I am the gate, it's probably related to that.
     
  9. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

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    Ecc 7:14 In the day of wealth have joy, but in the day of evil take thought: God has put the one against the other, so that man may not be certain what will be after him.

    It is not wrong that the church to be wealthy, we are to have joy in what we have, but we should consider that at a moments notice that wealth may go, and we may be persecuted. Our trust should be in the LORD not in "uncertain riches".
     
  10. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    Dear brother,
    Are you concerned about what the Lord have said :
    Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God." -Matthew 19:24

    If you consider carefully, what the Lord previously have said:

    Jesus said to him, "If you would be PERFECT, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." -Matthew 19:21

    The Lord said that the rich man would be perfect if he do what He has said.

    But consider brother, that our Lord who came to do the will of the One who sent Him:

    For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering. -Hebrews 2:10

    So those who have received adoption as sons through Christ, will be brought to perfection through suffering.

    You can understand that the Lord was trying to bring this rich man to glory by saying that this rich man would be perfect if he did what the Lord have said.
     
  11. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is true that our Lord have said to this rich man : “go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

    But we all know our Lord ables to perceive a person’s hearts, for this is what we have heard :

    When Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answered them, "Why do you question in your hearts? -Luke 5:22

    So likewise, our Lord perceive the heart of this rich man who ask Him. This is what we come to know after Jesus told him.

    When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. -Matthew 19:22

    This rich man’s heart treasured his possessions more than love for His commandments.

    Brothers, likewise, consider what apostle Paul have said :

    If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. -1 Corinthians 13:3

    Is our Lord concerned about this rich man’s possessions ? No.

    Our Lord is concerned that this rich man’s heart lack this love.
     
  12. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    most Americans have far more wealth than an ancient could ever dream of. Often we catch ourselves saying that this doesn't apply to me. guess again, in an ancient mindset and even many parts of the world today, we live greater than kings.
     
  13. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    that's a modern interpretation. the idea was that there was a gate so small that a camel had to remove its load, and bend low on it's knees to pass through so the metaphor is we must not hang on to worldly possessions. it makes for a good daily devotional. the story may trace back to as early as the 9th century but there is no evidence of such a gate existing. it is a common expression used in the Talmud and even the Quran and is stating it is impossible, a western expression, albeit cruder, may be "when pigs fly"
     
  14. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    .
     
  15. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

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    The words are trustworthy and true however it is also written nothing is impossible for God.

    Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

    25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

    26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
     
  16. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

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    His reference to being the gate should be taken in the context that he is the Gate to the sheepfold as the only way anyone can enter God's accepting presence. No, it would take a miracle for a camel to be able to go through the eye of a needle. That explanation makes it really easy for a rich person to enter.
     
  17. Hawkins

    Hawkins Member Supporter

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    This is a world where money is needed even in the case of preaching the gospel. So it all turns out to be the parable on how much you are given and how much you use it to bear fruits. The original standard is that we have give at least 1/10th of what we have. However, unlike in OT, it is no longer enforced as a piece of law because God knows before hand that we can't keep up to that. A lot of us can't give 1/10 as tithe. It still serves as a reference, it's still a common practice of our churches to give 1/10th as tithe.

    More importantly, Jesus ever said if you want to be perfect you need to give up all you have to follow Him. It's not ok to Him when the rich young man who observed the Jewish Law up to a standard but refused to give up all. This to me says, when you are given much more as a rich person, you are expected to contribute much more in terms of preaching the gospel and saving souls. Both the parable mentioned above and the rich young man are an example.
     
  18. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

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    During our 56 years of marriage, we tithed our net income. Sometimes, it was tight, but God blessed that commitment to him. We retired with a mortgage-free condo and good investments.
     
  19. Rene Loup

    Rene Loup Saved Wolf Among Sheep

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    Yes, this is 100% true. What was going through my mind while writing my previous posts was "What would be a better indicator of true character? Spending that wealth on drugs and prostitutes, or donating to charities and beneficial projects?"

    This Bible passage NEEDS to be pointed out. Thank you for this contribution.

    Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - King James Version
    Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - New King James Version
    Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - New International Version
    Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - International Children’s Bible

    ~1 Corinthians 13:1-13 (NKJV)
     
  20. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    The camel fitting through the eye of a sewing needle is very "matrix"

    But the camel fitting through the arch gate after a sand storm is kind of tough.

    The comparison was to illustrate how difficult it was for rich people to enter the kingdom.
     
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