Each person's responsibility.

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
In any good marriage, the husband is called to love his wife as Christ loves the church, regardless of whether she submits to him or reverences him: and the wife is called to submit to and reverence her husband as the church submits to and reverences Christ. Read Ephesians 5:22-33. A godly marriage is a picture of the relationship between Christ and his church.

A wife is to be in subjection to her husband (while drawing the line at any attempts to violate her chastity) even if her husband does not obey the word (i.e. is not born again, or also, if he does not love her as Christ loves the church) so that without the word but simply by her change of life, she may testify to her husband the reality of the Christian message. See 1 Peter 3:1-7 for the lowdown.

As a husband I realize that for me to love my wife as Christ loves the church is impossible apart from the power of the Holy Ghost. See Romans 5:5, John 13:34-35 and John 15:12-13. I must be willing to suffer and die for her, is what that means. I have prayed for it to be so in my marriage, and by faith in the power of prayer and the One who answers it, I declare that it is so, although the reality of it has never been tested and my hope is that it never will need to be tested, nor ever will be tested. My love for my wife also means that I want to be around to protect her; and dying for her would be contradictory to that.
 
Last edited:

Dan61861

7 days without God, makes one weak.
Jul 21, 2012
839
366
Valparaiso, Indiana
✟102,026.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It's easy to say, I'd die for my wife. It is not likely that will ever happen. It's funny though, that is what most men think when we think of loving our wives like Christ loves the church. The one thing that is likely and that we as men can do is never mentioned by husbands.

Christ came as a servant. Do we as men serve our wives?

In Christ
Daniel
 
Upvote 0

ValleyGal

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2012
5,775
1,829
✟114,245.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Divorced
It's easy to say, I'd die for my wife. It is not likely that will ever happen. It's funny though, that is what most men think when we think of loving our wives like Christ loves the church. The one thing that is likely and that we as men can do is never mentioned by husbands.

Christ came as a servant. Do we as men serve our wives?

In Christ
Daniel
Since the whole "submission" discussion is not allowed on this board, I would like to address the idea of "dying for your wife's sake."

First, Daniel, I like what you say about who Jesus came to be....a servant, not one to be served. In fact, if men want to know how to love their wives, it would be a good idea to see really what Jesus did do for the church. And it was not just putting himself in harms way for her protection. It goes much, much further.

In the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus prayed fervently that this cup would pass from him. He did not want to die on the cross. "Yet not my will but yours" he prayed. His own will was to live. But in order to die for her sake, he had to die to his own will, his own desire to please himself, his own way. He had to die to his "self" as a man.

The most beautiful way it is expressed is in Philippians 2:1-8:
Therefore, if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of others. In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking on the nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death - even death on a cross!

This passage is ripe with sweet fruit to feed a marriage. This was spoken for all believers - not in the context of marriage. But if you men want to be serious about what it means to be a spiritual leader in your home (if that is what you believe yourself to be), then you are responsible to initiate this kind of love with your wife, the same as Jesus did for us. And what is that? Jesus died for us while we were still sinners.... so you need to initiate this kind of love even when your wife is unlovable. Initiating this kind of love is exactly what Jesus did when he died on the cross for us. He initiated it....HE was responsible to reconcile us with the Father. So you should take the initiative to make sure your relationship is always in a reconciled state, just like Jesus did when he died on that cross.

Another big thing that stands out for me on this passage is the idea that Jesus is humble. He humbled himself to serve. As Daniel so rightly pointed out, how many of you have been humble with your wife and served her? What ways do you serve her? How has your humility been shown in your marriage? When was the last time you humbled yourself and initiated reconciliation the last time she was hurt by you or you were mad at her? But on a more theological note, Satan was tossed out of heaven on his hiney for his pride. Jesus humbled HIMSELF... and he didn't have to. It was his choice - why? Because he loves his church! This is love. This is what it means to love like Jesus loves.

And last (although there is a lot more to say than this), Jesus submitted to death on the cross for our sake. And what does Paul say in (iirc) Romans? That we need to take up our cross daily. That we need to crucify our old nature, our old man, and put on Christ. What men typically believe is that they should die for their wife. But I do not believe the Bible is talking about physical protection; rather, husbands are told to love like Jesus loves.... that is, take up your cross daily and crucify yourself of your own volition for the sake of your wife. Do everything for her benefit and nothing out of selfish ambition, as the passage in Philippians says. When was the last time any of you have done this specifically for your wife?

Now to conclude, I will say this. The passages I have referred to, are for all believers, not just husbands. But because husbands are told in Eph. 5 that they need to love their wives like Jesus loves the church, I believe that husbands are more taken to task and will be more accountable for treating their wives like this than their wives are. Why? Because men need to initiate - just like Jesus initiated the whole reconciled relationship with the church.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Edo2
Upvote 0

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
Amen ValleyGal.

I think that Jesus' example of washing the disciples' feet is the perfect example of how a husband ought to treat his wife.

But I want to say one thing...I have heard of situations where, more than husbands shirking their responsibillty because of lack of submission and reverence from their wives, certain wives have said that "I'll submit to and reverence my husband when he starts loving me as Christ loves the church."

Now this goes for husbands too...each person in the relationship is not to focus on the other person's responsibility but their own.

It would be a sin for a husband to say, "I'll love my wife as Christ loves the church as soon as she starts submitting to and reverencing me."

If you are having any kind of problems in your marriage, the first step is to admit your own responsibility and start living up to it, regardless of whether the other person lives up to theirs.

Chuck and Nancy Missler wrote a book entitled, Why should I be the first to change? I think the title says it all. It is our nature to want the other person to change first...but for real change to occur, we must reallize that we cannot change the other person, but that they very likely will change when they see a change in us.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
What brought on the original post of this thread was that I noticed that I sometimes have sympathy pains concerning my wife's arthritis and other ailments, and I thought in my heart that I would gladly feel that pain if it meant that she didn't have to.

So the part of the husband is not only to be willing to die for his wife, but to suffer for her. And of course this includes the dying to self spoken of by others in this thread, and doing service to your wife even when you don't feel like it or when it might cause pain to your streak of pride.

I think most guys would agree that doing things like carrying in the groceries for your wife is not a burden, even though it might cause pain to one's newly acquired arthritis (and I'm only 44 so I don't think that it's a problem that belongs specifically to me)!

The pain of exerting muscular power is something that we men revel in. But the thing we have to deal with more is the pain of humblling ourselves and admitting when we're wrong. Or taking the time to change the diapers on the baby (my wife and I don't have any children personally but I think it's a good example). Or leaving what we're doing in the present momemt to do her service.

These things are the kinds of things that may be difficult for certain husbands. We want to establish dominance over our wives; and if she isn't submitting when we want her to, we tend to want to try to force it.

But loving our wives has within it the element of submitting to her (see Ephesians 5:21 and context). When we ask the Lord for something, it is His decision as to whether He answers in the affirmative, but because He loves us He does things for us when we come to Him in humility asking for something in prayer. And this is the attitude in a wife that will get the best results. Not, "You should have known that that was what I wanted you to do in the first place!" but, "Husband, will you do such and such for me?" God gives us what we need when we ask Him. Should a wife then expect a husband to do things for her when she doesn't ask?

Most men are pretty dense when it comes to knowing what their partner needs. Communication therefore is a wonderful element to be desired in any good relationship.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Edo2
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
But I want to say one thing...I have heard of situations where, more than husbands shirking their responsibillty because of lack of submission and reverence from their wives, certain wives have said that "I'll submit to and reverence my husband when he starts loving me as Christ loves the church."

Now this goes for husbands too...each person in the relationship is not to focus on the other person's responsibility but their own.

It would be a sin for a husband to say, "I'll love my wife as Christ loves the church as soon as she starts submitting to and reverencing me."
The command to love, or the command to submit/respect, is NOT incumbent on anyone other than yourself. If God tells you to do it, it is required of YOU; not your parents, not your spouse, not your pastor, not your boss, not your kids.

YOU.

Regardless on what anyone else does or does not do.
 
Upvote 0

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
The command to love, or the command to submit/respect, is NOT incumbent on anyone other than yourself. If God tells you to do it, it is required of YOU; not your parents, not your spouse, not your pastor, not your boss, not your kids.

YOU.

Regardless on what anyone else does or does not do.

That was the point of what I said. Thanks for reiterating it. And of course God doesn't only say it to you: the commandment to love is given to all; but yes, only you can respond for yourself: you cannot love for anyone else: the other person is responsible to God according to their own relationship and if they do not love the way they're supposed to you have no control over that. You only have control over whether you love the other person, which is your responsibiliy before the Lord.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Dave-W
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Edo2

Active Member
Mar 25, 2017
74
63
59
Usa
✟27,123.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Since the whole "submission" discussion is not allowed on this board, I would like to address the idea of "dying for your wife's sake."

First, Daniel, I like what you say about who Jesus came to be....a servant, not one to be served. In fact, if men want to know how to love their wives, it would be a good idea to see really what Jesus did do for the church. And it was not just putting himself in harms way for her protection. It goes much, much further.

In the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus prayed fervently that this cup would pass from him. He did not want to die on the cross. "Yet not my will but yours" he prayed. His own will was to live. But in order to die for her sake, he had to die to his own will, his own desire to please himself, his own way. He had to die to his "self" as a man.

The most beautiful way it is expressed is in Philippians 2:1-8:
Therefore, if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of others. In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking on the nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death - even death on a cross!

This passage is ripe with sweet fruit to feed a marriage. This was spoken for all believers - not in the context of marriage. But if you men want to be serious about what it means to be a spiritual leader in your home (if that is what you believe yourself to be), then you are responsible to initiate this kind of love with your wife, the same as Jesus did for us. And what is that? Jesus died for us while we were still sinners.... so you need to initiate this kind of love even when your wife is unlovable. Initiating this kind of love is exactly what Jesus did when he died on the cross for us. He initiated it....HE was responsible to reconcile us with the Father. So you should take the initiative to make sure your relationship is always in a reconciled state, just like Jesus did when he died on that cross.

Another big thing that stands out for me on this passage is the idea that Jesus is humble. He humbled himself to serve. As Daniel so rightly pointed out, how many of you have been humble with your wife and served her? What ways do you serve her? How has your humility been shown in your marriage? When was the last time you humbled yourself and initiated reconciliation the last time she was hurt by you or you were mad at her? But on a more theological note, Satan was tossed out of heaven on his hiney for his pride. Jesus humbled HIMSELF... and he didn't have to. It was his choice - why? Because he loves his church! This is love. This is what it means to love like Jesus loves.

And last (although there is a lot more to say than this), Jesus submitted to death on the cross for our sake. And what does Paul say in (iirc) Romans? That we need to take up our cross daily. That we need to crucify our old nature, our old man, and put on Christ. What men typically believe is that they should die for their wife. But I do not believe the Bible is talking about physical protection; rather, husbands are told to love like Jesus loves.... that is, take up your cross daily and crucify yourself of your own volition for the sake of your wife. Do everything for her benefit and nothing out of selfish ambition, as the passage in Philippians says. When was the last time any of you have done this specifically for your wife?

Now to conclude, I will say this. The passages I have referred to, are for all believers, not just husbands. But because husbands are told in Eph. 5 that they need to love their wives like Jesus loves the church, I believe that husbands are more taken to task and will be more accountable for treating their wives like this than their wives are. Why? Because men need to initiate - just like Jesus initiated the whole reconciled relationship with the church.

Just wanted to say I loved this post.

This whole discussion has been really good as well. Have enjoyed reading all the responses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ValleyGal
Upvote 0

NothingIsImpossible

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
5,615
3,254
✟274,922.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'd let my wife respond but I have her in the kitchen making me a sandwich and then preparing my clothes for me. Then its time for intimacy whether she likes it or not!!!! :p LOL

Sadly some men truly confuse the slavery and having a wife as being the same thing. Or you have the men that have the wives that actually rule over all in the marriage. Its hard to find a couple that actually understands what the bible says. My wife and I are are equals. I ask her things, she asks me. I help her, she helps me. We don't do it because "Bible says too!" but because we love each other. We except nothing in return, as in we don't do it in hopes of getting a gift or sex or whatever.

Though my wife does let me lead in terms of spiritual matters. And she does really prefer I lead when it comes to other things to like money. She will ask me "Is it ok if I buy <insert thing>?". I don't ask her to do that and tell her she doesn't really need to ask. I trust her to know whats best when it comes to the finances and she does a great job.
 
Upvote 0