Dressing Modestly!

[BryanJohnMaloney]

There are equally suitable clothing for ipads and galaxies....most manufacturer offer cases, of different protection levels, for both.


Ah yes, the see through cases. While your case may still provide protection for drops......it does nothing for theft protection.
The device/body, is the goods.....some of these cost 1k easy....while others could be $100. A criminal would rather steal the 1k device because they can make more money from it.......to them, the risk of getting caught is not worth it for the $100 device...but is for the $1300 device.

Using the see through case lets the thief know what you have.......if you were standing next to a person with a see-through case on their ipad, or no case, and your ipad was fully covers.....because you didnt want to show the world what you had.....I believe the ipad which is fully visible, would be the preferred target.

But I would understand if you bought the see-through case, or had no case at all, and would not think your were at fault for any theft.

Would I be a bad guy for suggesting insurance for your device instead? Or would that be victim blaming?

And a head to toe garment won't protect against kidnapping. Therefore, transparent clothing that protects against the weather is just fine, since NOTHING protects against kidnapping.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

I can tell that a woman is a woman if she is wrapped up head to toe. Won't stop a man from attacking her.

 

[RaymondG]

And a head to toe garment won't protect against kidnapping. Therefore, transparent clothing that protects against the weather is just fine, since NOTHING protects against kidnapping.

And here i thought we were talking about Ipads.....

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

And here i thought we were talking about Ipads.....

The entire iPAD story was presented as a metaphor for female modesty, and that story started this entire thread. Are you trying to say that advice that is applicable to an electronic device can't be mindlessly translated to how we should treat women?

 

[RaymondG]

I can tell that a woman is a woman if she is wrapped up head to toe. Won't stop a man from attacking her.

And a lock on a house door wont stop a thief from breaking in if they want......Should that stop us from suggesting locking your door? What of the car alarms and flu shots?

You have to prove that these thing doesnt even lessen the likelihood of the events at all for you to be able to say that they should not even suggest it.

If not, we should stop taking flu shoots or getting alarms or locking doors......for these are all deterrents and is not is suggested to 100% prevent attacks.....they only lessen the chances.......and no one gets in an uproar when they are suggested.

 

[RaymondG]

The entire iPAD story was presented as a metaphor for female modesty, and that story started this entire thread. Are you trying to say that advice that is applicable to an electronic device can't be mindlessly translated to how we should treat women?

No, Modesty applies to men as well. I remember the one who argues with my words here on this thread, stating that she can find men legs in shorts attractive. Which I never thought possible. Now I must be more mindful of showing my sexy legs.

What I say to one, I say to all. It is best to not take anything personal.....for in Christ there is neither male nor female......Therefore only those outside of Christ are effected by views/rules/doctrines based around the gender of Man.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

No, Modesty applies to men as well. I remember the one who argues with my words here on this thread, stating that she can find men legs in shorts attractive. Which I never thought possible. Now I must be more mindful of showing my sexy legs.

What I say to one, I say to all. It is best to not take anything personal.....for in Christ there is neither male nor female......Therefore only those outside of Christ are effected by views/rules/doctrines based around the gender of Man.

You've never been married, I take it. My wife finds my legs attractive when I wear ANYTHING that isn't a CAFTAN! Thus, women can be attracted to men's legs if they wear any trouser-like garment. My wife likes my butt even in the caftan! What can I do? Pad myself all over so I look like a balloon? After all, according to her, men can have nice butts (taking her word for it), and MANY women will have their eyes on that prize.
My wife is turned on by a bass voice. So does that mean men must all try to sound like Mickey Mouse? Hair! My wife finds a well-groomed man's hair to be quite attractive, and lets me know every time I go to the barber. We'd better wear hats AT ALL TIMES when outdoors. Uh-oh, hats can turn some women on, if worn properly, so we have to wear crappy hats, not hats that look good.

Shall we discuss arms? Do you ALWAYS wear long-sleeved, BAGGY shirts? You'd better. How about your NECK? Yes, there are women who are attracted to a "manly" neck--I have NO clue what that means.

AND HANDS!
HANDS!
HANDS!
HANDS!

I have lost track of the number of women who have complimented me on my hands. Does that mean, for the sake of modesty, all men MUST WEAR GLOVES AT ALL TIMES?

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

And a lock on a house door wont stop a thief from breaking in if they want......Should that stop us from suggesting locking your door? What of the car alarms and flu shots?

You have to prove that these thing doesnt even lessen the likelihood of the events at all for you to be able to say that they should not even suggest it.

If not, we should stop taking flu shoots or getting alarms or locking doors......for these are all deterrents and is not is suggested to 100% prevent attacks.....they only lessen the chances.......and no one gets in an uproar when they are suggested.

So, you are saying that any woman who isn't wrapped up HEAD TO TOE contributes to whatever happens to her. What if her EYES are visible. Women's eyes are so very alluring, after all. If her eyes are uncovered, SHE CONTRIBUTES TO IT!

 

[RaymondG]

You've never been married, I take it.

Let's go with that, if you believe it helps your narrative.

My wife finds my legs attractive when I wear ANYTHING that isn't a CAFTAN! Thus, women can be attracted to men's legs if they wear any trouser-like garment. My wife likes my butt even in the caftan! What can I do? Pad myself all over so I look like a balloon? After all, according to her, men can have nice butts (taking her word for it), and MANY women will have their eyes on that prize.
My wife is turned on by a bass voice. So does that mean men must all try to sound like Mickey Mouse? Hair! My wife finds a well-groomed man's hair to be quite attractive, and lets me know every time I go to the barber. We'd better wear hats AT ALL TIMES when outdoors. Uh-oh, hats can turn some women on, if worn properly, so we have to wear crappy hats, not hats that look good.

Shall we discuss arms? Do you ALWAYS wear long-sleeved, BAGGY shirts? You'd better. How about your NECK? Yes, there are women who are attracted to a "manly" neck--I have NO clue what that means.

AND HANDS!
HANDS!
HANDS!
HANDS!

I have lost track of the number of women who have complimented me on my hands. Does that mean, for the sake of modesty, all men MUST WEAR GLOVES AT ALL TIMES?

Do you not see that you are proving that people are attracted to what they can see? visible butts, less hair on the face...gloveless hands????? Whose point are you trying to prove?

It would have been better to show that, even with clothes, features can still be seen and people can still be tempted.....Instead, you offer the opposite....you introduce covering up as a way to reduce attractiveness to others.....

And even I know that this is not possible all the time.

But hang in there....and browse around forums for a while.....your debate skills will increase.

 

[RaymondG]

So, you are saying that any woman who isn't wrapped up HEAD TO TOE contributes to whatever happens to her. What if her EYES are visible. Women's eyes are so very alluring, after all. If her eyes are uncovered, SHE CONTRIBUTES TO IT!

Please take time to read through the threads before posting. If you have read and came out with these conclusions, further dialogue would not be useful to anyone.

Thanks for the conversation.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

I merely apply principles as stated to reality to see the result. If legs must be covered because some woman might see them as sexy, so should arms, hands, the neck, etc.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

Let's go with that, if you believe it helps your narrative.



Do you not see that you are proving that people are attracted to what they can see? visible butts, less hair on the face...gloveless hands????? Whose point are you trying to prove?

It would have been better to show that, even with clothes, features can still be seen and people can still be tempted.....Instead, you offer the opposite....you introduce covering up as a way to reduce attractiveness to others.....

Isn't that the whole point of mandating people cover up? It's to MAGICALLY make people less tempted. Otherwise, why insist upon it?

 

[RaymondG]

Isn't that the whole point of mandating people cover up? It's to MAGICALLY make people less tempted. Otherwise, why insist upon it?

I never thought that the idea was to cover every inch on the body, or to become unattractive to all men.... If this were the case, everyone would be welcomed into church with form fitting cat suits and invited praise the lord.

So I think we can safely say, that covering skin is not the main idea here.

 

[Arso Martinera]

I don't like the analogy, can we just stop making analogies, we all know that in each religion we have to respect some sort of clothing, other than that, the basis is that you can use regular clothing as long as not too tight that show your body shape vividly. and we have to do everything gradually.
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[RaymondG]

I don't like the analogy, can we just stop making analogies, we all know that in each religion we have to respect some sort of clothing, other than that, the basis is that you can use regular clothing as long as not too tight that show your body shape vividly. and we have to do everything gradually.

Why not just tell all men to pluck out their eyes if their eyes offend them, and let women dress however they want? No need to worry ourselves about the fit of a woman's clothing......if we dont like the look of it....we can look away.

 

[Paidiske]

I agree, we should refrain from helping those who do not wish to be helped. I do not see help being forced on anyone in this thread..... It does seem, however, that you are also against help, that you do not approve of, being offered to others as well? Why must you be a filter for all information regarding help for women?

This is a debate forum. Why post here if you're not open to debate?

Neither is one who suggest wearing clothes, supporting the rape of naked women.

I'm not saying it does. But I'm saying it feeds into a culture of blaming the victim, which is a very real problem.

How do you know that covering up one day wont help one woman one time in one part of the world? And if there is that chance....would it not be worth it? What is the harm in helping that one person, while you focus only on the "most" of cases.

And in the meantime, we have contributed to an oppressive and shaming culture of women which affects all of us, not just the "one" who "might" be helped by such advice.

But I don't actually believe that such advice does help anyone avoid being raped. It's a false premise.

Is there a chance he would be more enticed by breast that are clearly visible than those that are fully blocked by clothing?

This line of reasoning is exactly the problem.

Rape doesn't happen because women are attractive or "enticing." This is not about a guy noticing an attractive girl.

It's about power. It's about the choice to overpower another. And that happens regardless of what she's wearing.

I feel likewise, that your suggestion is unwise and sends a feeling of hopelessness.

Not at all. There's plenty we can do to reduce incidences of rape. It happens by focussing on men, their attitudes and behaviours.

Not women's clothing.

Why not just tell all men to pluck out their eyes if their eyes offend them, and let women dress however they want? No need to worry ourselves about the fit of a woman's clothing......if we dont like the look of it....we can look away.

Exactly. Men should mind their own business and not police women's clothing choices.

 

[Zachm531]

And if I don't have an iPad but use an Android device, what then?

Oh! What if I use a cover that provides COMPLETE PROTECTION but still COMPLETELY REVEALS everything underneath! Hey! That's JUST AS GOOD, right!

Bro, i’ll be praying for you. That anger and pride is scary.

 

[PloverWing]

I went back to the analogy in the original post, and here's where it becomes offensive to me. It doesn't have to be an analogy about rape; it's an analogy about sex, and the last couple of lines say it explicitly.

The father looked lovingly at his daughter and said,
"Yet if I had asked you to cover your body which is much more precious than the iPad, would you have readily agreed???"

She was mute.....

~ Indecent dressing and exposure of your body reduces your value and respect.
Always dress decently.

*Pls protect our young ladies by sharing this with all sisters*.

1. If the story had ended with "That's why I always ask you to wear a hard hat and steel-toed boots when you're on the construction site", then the analogy would have been good; it would have been about protecting her body from harm. But that's not how the story ends.

2. What I hear in the sentence "Indecent dressing and exposure of your body reduces your value and respect" is that people (especially women, given the article's last line) who dress in a way that expresses their sexuality are less valuable and less worthy of respect than people who do not dress that way. Implicit in this may be the idea that people who are sexually active are less valuable and worthy of respect than people who are not sexually active. I disagree.

I do agree that people who are sexually active and not married are violating the rules of traditional Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. If they are followers of one of these faiths, that's something they should think about. But that's different from saying that a person has reduced value or is not worthy of my respect.

As a culture, we need to move past this idea that women become less valuable based on their gender expression or their sexuality.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Saw this on Facebook and thought i’d share. This applies to both men and women:


A girl bought an iPad. When her father saw it, He asked her "What was the 1st thing you did when you bought it?

"I put an anti-scratch sticker on the screen and bought a cover for the iPad" she replied.

"Did someone force you to do so?"

- "No"

"Don't you think it's an insult to the
manufacturer?"

- "No dad! In fact they even recommend using a cover for the iPad"

"Did you cover it because it was cheap & ugly?"

- "Actually, I covered it because I didn't want it to get damaged and decrease in value."

"When you put the cover on, didn't it reduce the iPad's beauty?"

- "I think it looks better and it is worth it for the protection it gives my iPad."

The father looked lovingly at his daughter and said,
"Yet if I had asked you to cover your body which is much more precious than the iPad, would you have readily agreed???"

She was mute.....

~ Indecent dressing and exposure of your body reduces your value and respect.
Always dress decently.

*Pls protect our young ladies by sharing this with all sisters*.

While I'm all in favor of modesty and chastity, this story is purile.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Women are to dress modestly as they were commanded to do by the Apostles(1 Timothy 2:9-10) to wear that which becometh a woman professing Godliness(1 Tim 2:10), and in the like manner men are to wear that which becometh a man professing Godliness. As both men and women are to bear the burdens of our brothers and Sisters in Christ(Galatians 6:2;Romans 15:1-2) and dress in a manner that will not compel them to sin through the lust of the eyes(1 John 2:16; Matt 5:28), in a way that instead brings them edification(1 Cor 14:26; 2 Cor 12:19; 1 Cor 10:23-24) in a way that glorifies the Lord God(Colossians 3:17, 23-24; 1 Cor 10:31-11:1).

How does dressing in the immodest manner of the Ungodly help us to bring spiritual edification to our brethren? How does it show our love for them(1 John 4:11-12)? Every one of our deeds should be done out of our love for God(1 Cor 10:31-11:1; 1 John 2:3-6) and out of love for our neighbors soul and body(John 13:34-35; Romans 15:1-2; 1 Cor 16:14) we should love them in both deed and in truth(1 John 3:18). By following the command of God to dress modestly(1 Timothy 2:9) we show both our love for God and our love for our neighbor, and we properly honour our bodies as the temple of the Holy spirit(Acts 7:47-50, Acts 17:23-25, 1 Cor 3:16-17, 1 Cor 6:13,15, 17-20, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12,14-16, 2 Cor 6:16)


What fruit does following the customs of this world produce(Matt 7:16-19)? Does it honour God to follow the customs of the world(Leviticus 18:2-4,Jer 10:2-3,8; Deut 12:29-32, 2 Cor 6:14-17, Eph 5:6-12; Colossians 2:8; 2 Timothy 4:1-3)? How does following after the custom of immodest dress of this world help us to be separate from them(1 John 2:15-17,3:1,4:4-8,16, John 17:5-26[Especially 12-19], 15:16-21, 2 Cor 6:17)? We are told only to follow the traditions of the Apostles and Christ(2 Thess 2:14-17; 2 Tim 3:14; Colossians 2:6-7) whose traditions are modesty(1 Timothy 2:9) abstaining from all appearances of evil(1 Thess 5:22), love for our brother in all things, and bearing one anothers burdens wherever possible so that we might help in their walk down the path of righteousness.

God bless and guide you in all things.